What do most collectors consider the Yogi Berra Rookie card?

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Posted By: Richard

Greetings, what is considered the Yogi Berra rookie card? Look forward to some replies.
Thanks

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Posted By: Steve Murray

In major issues I think the 48 Bowman is considered his "rookie" though some may consider his 47 Tip Top to be the "rookie".

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Posted By: Anonymous

Larry Berra is depicted in the 1947 Hom. Bond Bread issue and it is a toss-up between this set and the Tip Top Bread
issue as to which is his true 1st card.

Also, seen in this array are the 1947 Bond Bread cards of Stan Musial and Jackie Robinson....these are their 1st cards.

Closely notice that these three cards have ROUND corners and are the original 1947 issue. Several years later, these
cards were reprinted with SQUARE corners; and, contrary to some claims, are not not a 1947 issue.

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Posted By: shane leo

I consider the 1947 Tip Top bread card as his true rookie card. This card is hard to find in high grade, but the prices of this card seem to be very fair. A PSA 1 just ended at $180 last week. I have an ungraded copy and a PSa 5 for my set.

Shane

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Posted By: Mark

Ted: There were cards of Musial issued prior to 1947 such as the 1946 Propaganda Montiel.

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Posted By: Anthony

I don't really follow rookie cards, but why wouldn't his '41 Doubleplay be his rookie? It predated the others by years.
It's a combo card, but everyone seems to accept the '73 Schmidt and '63 Rose as rookies, I don't see how this is any different.

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Posted By: Rob

casual collectors and beckett = 1948 bowman

advanced collectors = tip top or hom. bond bread.

i would GUESS that many casual collectors never heard of these bread issues. I know I hadn't until recently.

Rob

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Posted By: Steve Murray

are you saying that David F. lied to us?

Anthony:

Are you sure you're not thinking of Rizutto? Berra isn't in DoublePlay. He was only 16 years old in 1941.

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Posted By: Ken W.

Anthony,
I don't see that Yogi is in the 1941 Double Play set? Not listed in my Standard Catalog, anyway.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

The Double Play reference in this thread refers to Phil Rizzuto; Yogi was only like 16 years old in 1941 and would not have been in the majors at that time

Rich

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Posted By: peter chao

Rich,

To confuse Phil Rizzuto with Yogi Berra, I'm sure the Scooter would not be too happy with that. Yogi wasn't the most photogenic of the Yankees, to be sure.

Peter

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Posted By: Rich Klein

Rizzuto and Berra owned a Bowling alley on Rt 3 in New Jersey. They were probably used to having some mis-identifications.

Rich

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Quick note about the Homogenized Bond Bread cards.

As I understand it, Ted is correct in that the original cards that were issued with the bread came with rounded corners.

He is also correct in that the cards were later reprinted with square corners.

However, my understanding is that these cards were initially printed with square corners in 1947. The square corners were found to poke through the bread wrappers, though, and so the corners were cut to be round after the printing and cutting process (hence the weird, uneven rounded corners they all seem to have). At some point after 1947, a horde of ORIGINAL Bond Bread cards from 1947 were found with square corners that had never been rounded. These cards had allegedly never been distributed with the bread, but were found together in one place.

This complicates the issue of how to determine the Bond Bread reprints from the originals, because there actually are original Bond Bread cards with square corners. This is why I don't own any - I can't tell the difference.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am.

-Al

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Posted By: Steve Murray

I remember the "warehouse" detail of the "find" and if true (Ted can chime in here)I will take back all of the nasty thoughts about David F. over these many years. You see, I still have most of mine.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Not sure I understand what that means, Steve. Does it mean that what I've heard and read about these cards is incorrect? If so, I'm glad I never bought any.

Can you clarify?

-Al

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Posted By: Steve Murray

I think you're right on. I've heard the same story and have yet to see anything to refute it. My opinion, unlike Ted's, is that they are not a later reprint issue. Seems to me to be easier to make a "rounded corner" reprint from an original "square corner" issue than the other way around. Guess if one could put the same card, one rounded and one square, side by side and judge the cropping, if any, that would be the smoking gun one way or the other.

Edited to say that I am not saying the rounded corners are not original only that the square may very well be too.

They were $139.00 for the set and actually pretty nice.

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Posted By: Anthony

My bad. I looked at Ted's post and saw a '41 DP and '48 Bowman of Rizzuto, and had a brain lapse. Sorry.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Ahhhhh......one of my favorite subjects.....

AL C

I will repeat....these 1947 BB's are my very 1st Baseball cards as a kid and I still have all my original 44 BB subjects.

Over the years I have acquired many of the SQUARE versions. And, for the following reasons, I do NOT think these
were printed with the original ROUND cards.

1.....I, or other veteran collectors, never saw any of the SQUARE cards when we were kids.

2.....More significantly, the SQUARE's are printed on thinner and inferior card stock. (this fact is not that
evident when thse cards are graded (since they are encapsulated).

3....If you compare a ROUND vs a SQUARE card (graded or raw), you will instantly notice two significant differences:

(a) the ROUND pictures are clearer and with distinct contrast vs the SQUARE pix.

(b) the backs of the ROUND ones are consistently creamy white....while the backs of the SQUARE's are quite toned.

4.....Finally....if the SQUARE cards were simply uncirculated, un-ROUNDED originals, then why were not all 48 cards
available with SQUARE corners.

The big "warehouse find" (in the '80s) that many have alluded to, produced only 24 of the 48 cards in the set. And,
no additional ones have ever surfaced.

That's it guys....I cannot make it any clearer than I just did.

TED Z

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Can you post a scan of a rounded corner Mize, Feller or Kiner? I have the square cornered ones and would like to compare for cropping etc.

Thanks.

Steve

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

1947 Hom. Bond Bread.....KINER.....MIZE.....FELLER

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Posted By: peter chao

Ted,

Your back to posting on Net54. That's great.

Peter

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Posted By: Steve Murray

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Posted By: dennis

the round corners,were these clipped by employees or factory produced this way? i know it's just speculation but i picture a bunch of women(in bakery uniforms) clipping the corners and inserting them into bread bags.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Now my question is "Which came first, the square or the rounded"?

If we look at Mize in the lower right hand corner of the square his uniform goes all the way to the edge and shows a fold. It is not apparent in the rounded.

Next, look at Feller's right shoe. More shoe appears in the square than in the rounded.


Also, compare the script name on Feller that appears higher on the card in the square than on the rounded.

Might is be inferred that the rounded were produced from the squares?

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Obviously, these cards were square when they were printed. You can see evidence of that on my Feller card.
The rounded (beveled) corners were then factory cut and the cards were inserted in the bread packages.

Your cards appear to be hi quality pictures similar to my originals. I would guess that your cards are not from
the 1980's "find".

I would like to see clear and enlargened scans of the backs of yours.

Meanwhile, when I get a chance I will scan A vs B comparisons of a typical SQUARE card vs a ROUND one,
showing the obvious difference in the backs.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Looks like the upper right and lower left corners of Ted's Feller are square. So I would imagine that the cards were first square, and then the corners were clipped, as the legend indicates.

Whether there was a warehouse "find" or not, I have no idea. That's what I've always heard, and always believed. I've also heard that the cards have been reprinted, and that reprints are often passed off as authentic.

Who knows? I'd imagine that if I had the cards since 1947, as Ted has, I'd be happy to know mine are real. But since I didn't have that luxury, I just won't buy any. That's one way for me to be sure.

-Al

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Posted By: Steve Murray

The backs:

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The difference in backs is noticeable in this scan. The inferior card stock of the "non-original" SQUARE cards
invariably shows toning (discoloration).
While the card stock of the original ROUND cards has maintained its original white color.

Also, notice that the SQUARE cards are slightly wider than the ROUND cards.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

In my opinion....the 1947 World Series between the Yankees and Dodgers was one of the most exciting WS ever played.
I highly recommend getting the video tape of it.

Pictured here from the 1947 Bond Bread set are 3 heroes of that Series that enabled the Yankees to win it in 7 games.





TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The backs of your cards have some mild toning; therefore, I'm sorry to say I don't think they are original 1947 issue.

The toning on the "reprinted" Bond Bread cards will vary in degree, but is always evident.

If you compare with my original 1947 cards, the difference is obvious. And, I have seen many of the ROUND cards....
and, none of them are toned. not even to the slightest degree.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

I can accept that. Good analysis. That's why we need you here.

Steve

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Posted By: peter chao

Who was Larry Berra...

Foxy Babe to Yogi...you look so cool in that outfit.

Berra to Foxy Babe...you don't look so hot yourself.

Peter