Hey, pennant guys

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Thanks Jason...

It was one of those situations where the underbidder drove up the price way higher in the last 5 seconds with his snipe. I have a suspicion about who it was, but also believe they would've gone higher and won it, had they really wanted it.

Either way... very happy to get it, as it's almost impossible to find new ones these days (especially on eBay).

I thought about bidding early on, but never did. Had my eyes on a couple others. But it is super cool ...

[bocca001]

Another vintage pennant photo. Colt 45's with Nellie Fox.

[thetahat]

Next up … the Buccos, as Harry Kalas used to call them.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1HeYsWNrKPgc3JnB7

Nothing special besides maybe the scroll pennants. Interesting to note that the first two scrolls are Trench from 1949 and 1950, they aren't dated but I looked up the roster. The Boston Braves scroll pennants I have are from 1949 and 1950 and *are* dated. I think it for the simple reason that there was room for the year.

Wondering if for those two years there were scrolls for most/all teams. Aside from those I think they were exclusive to postseason teams?

[thetahat]

So, again, the initial goal of cataloging my pennants was to group by style. Eventually I’ll do that, already did for one (Keezer). From 1946-1950 various teams had team pennants with names filling the body of the pennant. I know of the following:

1946 Red Sox
1948 Athletics
1949 Phillies Blue Jay
1950 Phillies
Pirates
Cardinals
Braves

I don’t think every team had one. The Pirates version is pictured here. It seems to be made by the same company who did the “sliding runner” pennants from the same era. Red Sox and Phillies use the same slider graphic. They share similar stitching, lack of tassels, same logos, one color print, and slightly smaller size. I guess it is safe to say there aren’t Trench? In which case ... who?

[bocca001]

Nice, Greg. I like the Pirate ship the best.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

Nice, Greg. I like the Pirate ship the best.

Thanks Marc. That’s from 1967. Looks like a local company.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by thetahat

So, again, the initial goal of cataloging my pennants was to group by style. Eventually I’ll do that, already did for one (Keezer). From 1946-1950 various teams had team pennants with names filling the body of the pennant. I know of the following:

1946 Red Sox
1948 Athletics
1949 Phillies Blue Jay
1950 Phillies
Pirates
Cardinals
Braves

I don’t think every team had one. The Pirates version is pictured here. It seems to be made by the same company who did the “sliding runner” pennants from the same era. Red Sox and Phillies use the same slider graphic. They share similar stitching, lack of tassels, same logos, one color print, and slightly smaller size. I guess it is safe to say there aren’t Trench? In which case ... who?

Greg: What makes you think these name-on-the-body pennants were by the same maker of the "sliding runner" series? Both are from the same era ... both bear no tassels. Anything else?

[999Tony]

Re way back about the 12 pennants sold in kc area for about $275— I’m in kc area next time an auction like that pm me! Possibly I could inspect lots in person if needed. I look at a few local auction sites with estate sale auctions but they never have anything decent sports related — just ooccasionally overpriced modern display pieces.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Domer05

Greg: What makes you think these name-on-the-body pennants were by the same maker of the "sliding runner" series? Both are from the same era ... both bear no tassels. Anything else?

Here are some pics that connect them IMO

[perezfan]

Greg...

I bet you were good at playing "Connect the Dots" when you were a kid.

Nice work, solving one of the many mysteries pertaining to these pennants. Interesting that only those few teams used the scattered names graphics, and all the other connections that can be deduced...

For example, there's a Pinback Button with the same exact Pirate mascot as on the pennant above. So is it safe to assume the Pin and Pennant were issued by the same company?

[thetahat]

Mark, whoa that’s crazy! Quite possibly .... are there any other team buttons like this?

So I would have to think these aren’t Trench, they are nowhere near alike.

[Domer05]

Wow Greg, I'm astonished by your observations. Yet again, you have presented a convincing case of a pennant series and/or common manufacturer.

I had not realized that these select name-on-the-body pennants were made by the "sliding runner" mystery maker. The "sliding runner" maker is of great interest to me. While they only made a small quantity of these name-on-the-body pennants and only for certain teams, they sure made a lot of these sliding runner pennants.

I'm stumped as to who this maker was; but, I'm quite certain it wasn't Trench. Many of the "sliding runner" pennants have no tassels and are monochrome. Trench was offering polychromatic graphics by the 1940s; and, except for a handful made in the year 1959, they always used tassels through 1970.

In addition to the "sliding runner" baseball series, this same maker also made an equally popular football series, which we may call "the Heisman" series. I'll let Fballguy tell you how common this design was in the 1940s....

Whoever this mystery maker was, they made a ton of pennants in the 1940s.

[thetahat]

Yes that’s no doubt the same company. They also used simple team specific logos ... the Phillies Blue Jay pennants all fall into this style. Here’s another oddity that is common among these .... some have a spine in two pieces, but with unbroken stitching. So they were clearly produced this way. I have a few like this ....

[bocca001]

As I'm sure you know, that Heisman series is common (many schools) for college teams in the 1940s, as well as pro teams. I know you look for these things, Kyle, but it is hard to imagine that the schools (assuming they were sold by schools) were not ordering from some sort of catalog.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by bocca001

As I'm sure you know, that Heisman series is common (many schools) for college teams in the 1940s, as well as pro teams. I know you look for these things, Kyle, but it is hard to imagine that the schools (assuming they were sold by schools) were not ordering from some sort of catalog.

Not just universities but high schools too! And not just NFL but AAFC too. Whoever the maker was they had the entire market cornered. And as mentioned...They made a lot. The sliding runner and stiff arm RB are the two most common styles from that era.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by bocca001

As I'm sure you know, that Heisman series is common (many schools) for college teams in the 1940s, as well as pro teams. I know you look for these things, Kyle, but it is hard to imagine that the schools (assuming they were sold by schools) were not ordering from some sort of catalog.

Marc: I totally agree. This company probably offered one or two stock drawings for each customer/retailer/school; and this stiff arming running back seemed to be the most popular for football pennants.

Whoever this company was, they had a national market share on the same level as Trench. So, whoever they are ... we've probably come across their name somewhere before, perhaps on a non-pennant souvenir, e.g., pinback.

Fballguy would know, but I'm pretty sure "the Heisman" was always monochrome; and, more often than not, without tassels?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Yes that’s no doubt the same company. They also used simple team specific logos ... the Phillies Blue Jay pennants all fall into this style. Here’s another oddity that is common among these .... some have a spine in two pieces, but with unbroken stitching. So they were clearly produced this way. I have a few like this ....

They must have really been pinching pennies if they were using spine scraps!

[bocca001]

For the Heisman runner, mine have no tassels.

For the also common kicker, which I always assumed was the same maker (but maybe not?) I have with and without tassels (the one with tassels clearly older).

[MK]

I assume maybe they made these over a period of 2 or 3 years and each batch had some differences. The number on the runner varies and the font of the letters is not the same.

[ooo-ribay]

As you guys know, there are different variations of the sliding runner, other than just different numbers...

[ooo-ribay]

If anyone is planning on bidding on a crappy, red Polo Grounds pennant on ebay, let me know and we'll work something out. I don't want to "cost someone money" and vice-versa.

[bocca001]

I already have that Polo Grounds pennant Rob, so don't worry about me

Attached are some recent Giants additions. Both tough to find. Both a bit rough.

The orange one has a funky tip. Can't tell if it was just a bad cut (notice bad cut on spine too) or if someone trimmed it later. It's tough to find in Orange. Pretty easy to find in Black. The funky cut on the spine reminds me of bootleg 49ers pennants, many of which have that same flat cut at the top (or bottom). Very stiff felt too.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I already have that Polo Grounds pennant Rob, so don't worry about me

Attached are some recent Giants additions. Both tough to find. Both a bit rough.

The orange one has a funky tip. Can't tell if it was just a bad cut (notice bad cut on spine too) or if someone trimmed it later. It's tough to find in Orange. Pretty easy to find in Black. The funky cut on the spine reminds me of bootleg 49ers pennants, many of which have that same flat cut at the top (or bottom). Very stiff felt too.

Marc, 99% confident that the orange pennant was made that way. Looks like an Ad Flag pennant? There is no word mark like they usually have but I still suspect it is one. Modern (post 1960) Ad Flags are notorious for weird cuts, like they had sone guy use scissors. Very nice though!

[ooo-ribay]

I notice the bottom of mine is cut a little funky, too. I'm not sure I have any orange pennants with an orange spine.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I notice the bottom of mine is cut a little funky, too. I'm not sure I have any orange pennants with an orange spine.

One thing this has in common with Ad Flag is a spine that is not sewn directly along the edge but leaves a noticeable amount of the pennant showing to the left.

[thetahat]

Here are my non-MLB baseball pennants ... I'd love to find more stadium pennants from the IL or AA. Observe that Offermann Stadium looks a heck of a lot like Fenway Park ...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hAD16pqUVZiY3JBHA

[perezfan]

Those are ALL great, Greg....

I especially love the Tacoma Tigers (I do have one) and the Miami Marlins (never been able to nail one down). They are all beautiful with tremendous artwork and graphics. Thanks for posting those!

[ooo-ribay]

They are great!

I’ve been looking for a Tacoma Giants forever.

[thetahat]

Thanks guys! Glad you enjoy the pics.

[MK]

Obtained this 26” Cubs pennant which I rarely see. I’m guessing the 1930s but would love to hear from the experts with their opinions.

[perezfan]

Nice Mike!

I used to have a red one. Tried many times to trade with Mike H, but he just despised this one, calling the Cub a bug-eyed raccoon. We laughed about it a lot, and every time we were getting close on a trade, I offered to throw it in (knowing he would never take it).

I like it though, and think late 30s - early 40s is about the best we can pin it down. Nice pickup of a very rare variation!

[MK]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Nice Mike!

I used to have a red one. Tried many times to trade with Mike H, but he just despised this one, calling the Cub a bug-eyed raccoon. We laughed about it a lot, and every time we were getting close on a trade, I offered to throw it in (knowing he would never take it).

I like it though, and think late 30s - early 40s is about the best we can pin it down. Nice pickup of a very rare variation!

I see the raccoon reference but I like it too. Great story! Thanks.

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by MK

Obtained this 26” Cubs pennant which I rarely see. I’m guessing the 1930s but would love to hear from the experts with their opinions.

Mike that’s a cool pennant. I’ve only seen it once before, white print only on red felt. Yours is a beauty!

[MK]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Mike that’s a cool pennant. I’ve only seen it once before, white print only on red felt. Yours is a beauty!

Thanks Greg.

[bocca001]

Nice minor league pennants Greg. Also love seeing the rare Cubs/Raccoon pennant from Mike.

Here are two 49ers pennants that Fballguy was willing to part with. The single bar with stars pennant is something I've been wanting for some time.

[bocca001]

I'm really glad to see all of the pictures come back after the site issues.

To get things moving again, here is a picture of a pennant that I'd really, really like to find. An ever rarer version of the single bar with stars.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by bocca001

I'm really glad to see all of the pictures come back after the site issues.

To get things moving again, here is a picture of a pennant that I'd really, really like to find. An ever rarer version of the single bar with stars.

Wow...Never seen that one come up for sale.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Fellows what is the preferred method of shipping a pennant? Flat, rolled? Yesterday I received one folded up in a 6" x 8" box, I was not pleased though it ironed out ok.

What does it cost to mail one flat. Should I cut cardboard and wrap the pennant inside?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers

Fellows what is the preferred method of shipping a pennant? Flat, rolled? Yesterday I received one folded up in a 6" x 8" box, I was not pleased though it ironed out ok.

What does it cost to mail one flat. Should I cut cardboard and wrap the pennant inside?

Flat is best. Back in the day, you could still ship a flat 14” x 32” pretty cheaply. Remember $3.20 Priority? Newer, stiff pennants almost have to be shipped flat because ironing won’t always take out the creases. Plus, they can melt! For older, soft pennants, I always ask for loosely rolled, at a minimum. I’m also OK with lightly folded in a decent sized (say 12” x 12”) box. Unfortunately, I think we’ve all received pennant oragami at one time or another.

[rlevy]

If you cut two pieces of cardboard in the shape of the pennant, just a little bigger, you can usually keep the weight below 13 oz, and ship it first class for about $5 or less. Over that weight, it needs to go priority for $8 or $9.00. But I always request any pennant that I buy be shipped flat and will pay the extra if necessary to avoid damaging the pennant.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Hot Springs Bathers

Fellows what is the preferred method of shipping a pennant? Flat, rolled? Yesterday I received one folded up in a 6" x 8" box, I was not pleased though it ironed out ok.

What does it cost to mail one flat. Should I cut cardboard and wrap the pennant inside?

I think you'll get many different opinions on this. Most truly felt pennants can be safely shipped loosely rolled in a box. I do this for convenience, not cost savings. Whether rolled in a box or flat, the price doesn't change as long as you keep it under 16 ounces. More valuable pennants, I'll ship flat. But $50 or less, loosely rolled has worked without a complaint for years. Even the stiff 70s stuff can be loosely rolled and flattens out in an hour.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Gentlemen thank you very much for the input!

[perezfan]

Did anybody here land this one...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-039-s-...p2047675.l2557

I was the sorry underbidder. Congrats to whoever got it. Super cool (and rare) pennant!

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Did anybody here land this one...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-039-s-...p2047675.l2557

I was the sorry underbidder. Congrats to whoever got it. Super cool (and rare) pennant!

Not me ... interestingly this is not the only Minoso pennant made. A couple years ago this one surfaced on eBay, and I jumped on it at the full asking price of $600. It is from my favorite series. When I got it, the tip was very frail (not obvious in pic) and I returned it. Still wanted it but couldn’t justify the high price. Sorry for blurry pic but the only one I could find is in a list of all my purchases, taking a screenshot, as the original pic is no longer on the item’s auction site.

This by the way helps establish the series as WGN, it seems like the speciality pennants from this series are for Chicago teams.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Did anybody here land this one...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-039-s-...p2047675.l2557

I was the sorry underbidder. Congrats to whoever got it. Super cool (and rare) pennant!

I came in third.

This one sold for $40 with free shipping yesterday too. I missed by seconds. Got all the way to confirming payment and error out because it was no longer available. I have a feeling I know who got it and we'll probably see it in one of his auctions within a month.

[perezfan]

Damn, Rob...

Sure wish it was you instead of him.

No doubt that someone will be shelling out around $180 to J.R. before all is said and done. Of all the pennants I've bought on eBay over the years, I have never had one evaporate like that during the payment process. He must have beaten you to it by less than 10 seconds.

[Fballguy]

Yeah...I rec'd an error I had never seen before. Tried confirming payment a couple more times and got the error each time. Then after a few tries, I got the item is no longer available page. Bummed.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Damn, Rob...

Sure wish it was you instead of him.

No doubt that someone will be shelling out around $180 to J.R. before all is said and done. Of all the pennants I've bought on eBay over the years, I have never had one evaporate like that during the payment process. He must have beaten you to it by less than 10 seconds.

J.R.?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

J.R.?

It's not J.R. Ewing. But same state.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

It's not J.R. Ewing. But same state.

Hmmmm.... :thinking: