Bryce Harper

[Snapolit1]

“Baseball’s tired,” he says. “It’s a tired sport, because you can’t express yourself. You can’t do what people in other sports do. I’m not saying baseball is, you know, boring or anything like that, but it’s the excitement of the young guys who are coming into the game now who have flair. If that’s Matt Harvey or Jacob deGrom or Manny Machado or Joc Pederson or Andrew McCutchen or Yasiel Puig — there’s so many guys in the game now who are so much fun."

I think he's pretty spot on. Baseball's history and traditions are awesome, and I love it as much as anybody, but I'm so sick and tired of some stiff smug guy, self-appointed maintainer of decorum of unwritten rules, bitching about how someone threw the wrong pitch up by 7 runs or smiled running around the bases . . . .bla bla bla. I though Bautista's famous bat flip last year was awesome. Let's show some emotion where it's warranted. So much for all these stupid unwritten rules.

[Rich Klein]

Re: Bat Flip

Take a good look at Hosmer's Big Hit in the World Series last year. He had a heck of a bat flip and NO ONE said a word.

[ullmandds]

i agree with the op...baseball needs an adrenaline shot...maybe bryce or some of these other exciting youngsters are the one(s) to do it!

[itjclarke]

I take a slightly different view. I love that there are still plenty of old school enforcers and that there are plenty of younger, flashier players. The clash between the two styles makes for compelling viewing.

I won't begin to argue the merits of baseball's unwritten rules. I think they're so often inconsistent and contradictory, but this rift between old and new does a lot to keep the on field tensions high, which I think further fuels in game/season/rivalry competiveness. I like that there's still at least a little anger left in the game... And an occasional "reason" for a pitcher to knock someone down.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The celebrations in other sports especially basketball and football are out of control. Celebrating a damn free throw. Celebrating a layup when your team is down by 25. Or a sack when your team is long since out of the game. Every play, it seems sometimes. I think baseball is the right mix of decorum with the occasional spontaneous demonstration for an appropriately big moment.

[Mountaineer1999]

Yeah lets turn baseball into the NBA and get some music and lights going between pitches! Maybe even get the Lakers Girls to become Dodgers Girls and work the foul lines. Baseball is fine the way it is.. why does everything need to be recreated? There is plenty of fire and emotion in the game. The NBA stinks, I think the NFL stinks and is boring. Leave baseball alone, why mess with tradition.

[Filthy]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

The NBA stinks, I think the NFL stinks and is boring. Leave baseball alone, why mess with tradition.

This opinion will come as an unpopular one...but as a whole...baseball fandom is very quickly fading away. Both of those leagues mentioned, continue to gain more and more of the share of viewers/supporters/fans. The median age of fans of Major League baseball, continues to increase, and are at an all time high..while the median age of the NFL and NBA fans continue to be stable, and relatively low in comparison.

A lot of us collect, because we love the game of baseball, and the history of the game. But todays generation couldn't care less about baseball. It's actually becoming pretty tough to find many under the age of 20, that even follow the MLB. This isn't an ultimate deciding factor...but, for comparison..25-30 years ago, you could walk into an elementary school and ask a bunch of kids who their favorite MLB player was..and 50 kids would quickly blurt out Mark McGwire, Ken Griffey Jr. Frank Thomas, etc.... But if you were to walk into an elementary school today, and ask the same question..very little, if any of them, could even give you a single name of a MLB player.

MLB, unlike the NBA and NFL has done a horrible job of marketing its individual players, and marquee teams over the past 15+ years. I'm afraid is finally starting to catch up to them, as the popularity of the game, will continue to dwindle. So, I can see why guys like Harper would make comments such as these...as the game needs a MAJOR shot of adrenalin.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Filthy

as the game needs a MAJOR shot of adrenalin.

I agree in part, but think baseball made a lot of mistakes that go above and beyond the "style" of the game. I think it's poorly marketed itself for years, not fully capitalizing on its star power, and it's historical importance. I think things like interleague, though maybe temporarily raising interest levels for a week or two during the regular season (it barely tips the scale anymore) really undercut the overall interest/novelty/anticipation of the AS game and WS. In the past, these were the ONLY times the two leagues' players faced each other. I think baseball also fell victim to ESPN's every other Sunday Yankees v Red Sox hype machine, which lasted over a decade, and which turned a 3 hour game into a 4 hour game.. with extended commercial breaks, in game interviews, and players milking camera time. This in turn also lessened national interest in anything not NY, or Boston, which was nuts because there were always so many other potentially compelling match ups each year.

I think a shot of adrenalin may come in form of better marketing the game/players (Harper, Trout, Correa) especially those in mid/smaller markets, shortened commercial breaks... and very possibly also a growing interest in gambling related things like fantasy, and daily fantasy (if they survive). The NBA immediately jumped on board with daily fantasy and the NFL, however unpopular/hated the league itself is becoming, seems will be carried for years by growing interest in fantasy football. If baseball can latch onto something like that (sucks in lots of casual fans in office leagues, etc), maybe coupled with fewer parents allowing their kids to play football, perhaps its relevance regrows steadily. Even if not, local cable deals and per game ratings during the regular season are better than ever, and making owners more money than ever. It seems it's just the national audience for the postseason that's been hurting.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Filthy

... as the popularity of the game, will continue to dwindle...

Dwindling? 74,000,000 people went to MLB games last year...

Do you own the team? Then why do you care how many people are there?

A baseball game is a beautiful event meant to be enjoyed as it unfolds, whether there are 60 people in the stands or 60,000.

It's the only major professional team sport where the game isn't over until it's over, no matter how many runs you are getting beaten, it POSSIBLE for you to win. The 2004 Red Sox are a nice place to look.

Every other major professional team sport hits a point at nearly every game, where one team is done, and it is impossible for them to win, yet, the game continues.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by Filthy

This opinion will come as an unpopular one...but as a whole...baseball fandom is very quickly fading away. Both of those leagues mentioned, continue to gain more and more of the share of viewers/supporters/fans. The median age of fans of Major League baseball, continues to increase, and are at an all time high..while the median age of the NFL and NBA fans continue to be stable, and relatively low in comparison.

A lot of us collect, because we love the game of baseball, and the history of the game. But todays generation couldn't care less about baseball. It's actually becoming pretty tough to find many under the age of 20, that even follow the MLB. This isn't an ultimate deciding factor...but, for comparison..25-30 years ago, you could walk into an elementary school and ask a bunch of kids who their favorite MLB player was..and 50 kids would quickly blurt out Mark McGwire, Ken Griffey Jr. Frank Thomas, etc.... But if you were to walk into an elementary school today, and ask the same question..very little, if any of them, could even give you a single name of a MLB player.

MLB, unlike the NBA and NFL has done a horrible job of marketing its individual players, and marquee teams over the past 15+ years. I'm afraid is finally starting to catch up to them, as the popularity of the game, will continue to dwindle. So, I can see why guys like Harper would make comments such as these...as the game needs a MAJOR shot of adrenalin.

this is good stuff, and the hobby needs the younger people to care. you might've read the "hobby is dying" mantra in the 1930s, 1950s, 1970s, 1980s publications etc...but that was different the actual game was thriving. watchers' demographics keep going up...i see more erectyle dysfunction and bph ads within half an hour of a baseball game than an nba game's worth. instead of glorifying their stars baseball actively try to take them down with ped accusations and the like. too many unwritten rules started by white guys in the old day that want the game to still be played the white way.

i do have hope for manfred tho...i think he's a progressive commisioner.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

Yeah lets turn baseball into the NBA and get some music and lights going between pitches! Maybe even get the Lakers Girls to become Dodgers Girls and work the foul lines. Baseball is fine the way it is.. why does everything need to be recreated? There is plenty of fire and emotion in the game. The NBA stinks, I think the NFL stinks and is boring. Leave baseball alone, why mess with tradition.

Agreed.

"Flashy" just means "craving attention" and in this era of social media, that's what everybody is all about. Sitting on the bench because you're not good enough to start? No problem, develop a dance routine for when the guys who are playing score, that will get you some attention.

I want to watch a baseball game. I don't care about the shopping mall / amusement park attached to the stadium, I don't care about all the crap about the "marketing" of individuals or of the sport itself, if you don't don't think baseball is "exciting enough", if you think a three hour game is "boring", good, go to a football game, enjoy all the hoopla "squeezed" into the three hours that it takes to play a game a game that has a clock that runs for four 15 minute quarters.

[Kco]

I'm a diehard Baseball guy but I am fully for guys being fired up, he's 100% right that the game needs more fire and emotion!

[Hankphenom]

How about just running out your plays, Bryce? That would make me more excited about you. Oh, and baseball is doing better than ever, by the way. If you're bored, please go do something else, it doesn't need you. Really.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

Yeah lets turn baseball into the NBA and get some music and lights going between pitches! Maybe even get the Lakers Girls to become Dodgers Girls and work the foul lines. Baseball is fine the way it is.. why does everything need to be recreated? There is plenty of fire and emotion in the game. The NBA stinks, I think the NFL stinks and is boring. Leave baseball alone, why mess with tradition.

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

How about just running out your plays, Bryce? That would make me more excited about you. Oh, and baseball is doing better than ever, by the way. If you're bored, please go do something else, it doesn't need you. Really.

+1 to both of these comments

[Rich Klein]

Laker Girls coming to Baseball. I'm IN for more viewing

[Snapolit1]

"Baseball is fine the way it is.. why does everything need to be recreated?"

Maybe that's true for 50 year old men. I have two boys who I have to drag to a baseball game . . . .yet they play baseball for hours on end with their xbox . . . .

I agree the celebrating in basketball and football has gone way over the top. But baseball is way too far in the other direction. When a guy hits a home run in a championship game and people bitch about a bat flip . . . c'mon . . . .

The Hispanic players play in the winter leagues and its amazing to see the celebrating on the field, the clowning around, the sheer joy. Maybe we don't need all of that in the major leagues but a dose would be fun. Ditto for the Korean professional leagues.

You know who was the biggest showboat in the history of the game. Babe Ruth of course. He would talk trash to half the infield while he was circling the bases. For some reason no one has ever called him out as the poster boy for bad on field behavior.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Babe Ruth talking trash to half the infield? Other than the called shot in 1932 when retaliating for the Mark Koenig snubs I don't think that Ruth did much out-of-line on the field? He did jab at the Cubs as he circled the bases that day.

I just put in a quick call to one of Ruth's best biographers and one of my SABR buddies he said no way.

I think baseball does lack some color but it comes from the business like way many of the guys play the game. In the 1930's and 40's you had guys coming from tough times, baseball was a relief from everyday life where their fathers worked in the fields or the mines.

Now many American players are bred for the game much like tennis kids or golf kids. Parents take them to hitting or pitching coaches everyday or they hit in cages after school each day. The days are gone where a kid just comes from nowhere to the bigs. Harper is is the poster child for this type of player along with Heyward. Their stories have been told over and over on the air and in print.

The latin players today are reflective of the old school American players of the early days of the game save the steroid influence in many of their countries.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't mind the occasional celebration of a big moment like the Bautista bat flip, but if hitters made a regular practice of showing up pitchers, or vice versa, I would not care for that. Can you imagine a pitcher running over to high five the shortstop after a key strikeout? Yuck.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Maybe that's true for 50 year old men. I have two boys who I have to drag to a baseball game . . . .yet they play baseball for hours on end with their xbox . . . .

Am I the only board member 50 years or older who got a chuckle out of this?

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

How about just running out your plays, Bryce? That would make me more excited about you. Oh, and baseball is doing better than ever, by the way. If you're bored, please go do something else, it doesn't need you. Really.

The knock on him his first two years was that he continually tried to make plays when nothing was there and would nick himself up. He failed to run one ball out in August of a disappointing season which led to a brawl with one of the biggest knuckleheads in the game. And the reason baseball is on the uptick is because it has the greatest influx of young talent the game has seen since the 1950's. Harper is at the top of the list and arguably one of the three most important players in the game. I'm all for the "un-written rules" debate and personally feel the game could use a little of both sides of the argument, but to slam Harper for a lack of hustle implies you haven't watched him at all.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

The knock on him his first two years was that he continually tried to make plays when nothing was there and would nick himself up. He failed to run one ball out in August of a disappointing season which led to a brawl with one of the biggest knuckleheads in the game. And the reason baseball is on the uptick is because it has the greatest influx of young talent the game has seen since the 1950's. Harper is at the top of the list and arguably one of the three most important players in the game. I'm all for the "un-written rules" debate and personally feel the game could use a little of both sides of the argument, but to slam Harper for a lack of hustle implies you haven't watched him at all.

I must have watched him a lot more than you, or you would have seen what I have. The Papelbon incident was one of many like that, at bat and in the field. He hustles like crazy when he feels like it, but will also fail to run out a ground ball or fly ball, or fail to come in quickly to field a hit in the outfield, and some of them have cost the team bases in close games. This attitude started spreading among the Nationals, and I saw both Escobar and Ramos either fail to run out fly balls or go into a home run trot on balls that hit the wall and stayed in play. He won the MVP on stats, but he actually might have been the least valuable player in terms of team unity and cohesion. Harper's an enormous talent, but he seems to consider himself above the game. Most Nats fans are thrilled to have such an exciting young talent on their team, but I'd rather win.

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

How about just running out your plays, Bryce? That would make me more excited about you. Oh, and baseball is doing better than ever, by the way. If you're bored, please go do something else, it doesn't need you. Really.

Actually, it was Only One Play...

How about we mention Him Running Through the Wall.
oR
Sliding Head 1st inta 3rd & tearing up his thumb cartilage.

The Guys a Phenomenon in the Making!

What he said has a bit of truth to it.
Maybe he's as tired of the Steroid era as most of us are...
Maybe He's a Kid that just loves the game as much as we do
& just wants ta have some fun!?

I don't really know... But it Sounds Good

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by irishdenny

Actually, it was Only One Play...

How about we mention Him Running Through the Wall.
oR
Sliding Head 1st inta 3rd & tearing up his thumb cartilage.

The Guys a Phenomenon in the Making!

What he said has a bit of truth to it.
Maybe he's as tired of the Steroid era as most of us are...
Maybe He's a Kid that just loves the game as much as we do
& just wants ta have some fun!?

I don't really know... But it Sounds Good

Actually, it's been many plays he hasn't run out, or hasn't hustled to field, and it's cost the Nats bases in close games. Then this attitude started to spread to other players. An enormously talented team had a dysfunctional, poisonous season last year, and the most talented of them all just might be part of the reason.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by irishdenny

The Guys a Phenomenon in the Making!

LOL, I love how that word is thrown around. I'm pretty sure they said the same thing about his teammate, Stephen Strasburg. How's that working out?

[bigtrain]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

How about just running out your plays, Bryce? That would make me more excited about you. Oh, and baseball is doing better than ever, by the way. If you're bored, please go do something else, it doesn't need you. Really.

I could not agree more. And furthermore... I wish every pitcher in the league reacted like he was Bob Gibson when a batter pulled that bat flip crap. Drill him.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

How about just running out your plays, Bryce? That would make me more excited about you. Oh, and baseball is doing better than ever, by the way. If you're bored, please go do something else, it doesn't need you. Really.

Hank, I agree with you 100%. I have watched 95+% of the Washington Nationals games since the Expos relocated to DC, and I have noticed that Harper consistently half-heartedly jogs toward 1st base whenever he hits a popup or a ground ball that has no chance of being a base hit. Harper is not "Charley Hustle," except when he smells a base hit and/or extra bases.

Yes, Harper is tremendously talented. But, I'll take Trout over Harper every day. The Nats are my beloved home team, but quite frankly, the only time I root for Harper to do well is when the team is in desperate need for his production. It is said that there is no "i" in "team," but I suspect Harper thinks there is!

I'm not opposed to a bit more celebration and emotion being shown by MLB players, so long as it doesn't directly show up the opposition and doesn't begin to approach the level we see with the NBA and NFL.

Mostly, I'd like to see the game speeded up a bit more. I wonder how much total game time is consumed by batters adjusting their batting gloves, seemingly after every pitch - a simple solution to this would be to outlaw batting gloves.
Val

[Centauri]

If the Nats are tired of Harper, well my Indians would happily take him off your hands.

Harper is great for the sport, same for Bautista - that bat flip will become legendary. We need more color, not less.

[jkray25]

All this talk about Harper...what's he won? NL mvp last year (granted he was raking most of the year) and some other ancillary awards but before that, what else?

IMO trout is overall a better player, plays hard and coincidentally you don't hear much about him do you?

A shame that a drama queen gets to be the face of the young generation.

Maybe that sentiment is due to him being hyped since he was in high school...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by jkray25

All this talk about Harper...what's he won? NL mvp last year (granted he was raking most of the year) and some other ancillary awards but before that, what else?

IMO trout is overall a better player, plays hard and coincidentally you don't hear much about him do you?

A shame that a drama queen gets to be the face of the young generation.

Maybe that sentiment is due to him being hyped since he was in high school...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk

Good point as harper and trout are 2 of the best in the game in my opinion...with trout being so far the best by a stretch. 2 young guys with different approaches and opinions on how the game should be played.

nothing new here...I just thing as life and time goes by...evolution is inevitable...and baseball should not be excluded.

[jkray25]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

nothing new here...I just thing as life and time goes by...evolution is inevitable...and baseball should not be excluded.

Agreed. It will evolve but that doesn't mean it has to lose its integrity. I have no problem with celebrations when warranted and the occasional scuffles or brush backs.

But pompous attitudes and subsequent actions, especially by the supposed "face" of baseball...

Meh, I can do without.

All that being said it doesn't affect my outlook on baseball. I will still watch the playoffs and follow my Braves and I think most loyalists are the same.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by jkray25

Agreed. It will evolve but that doesn't mean it has to lose its integrity. I have no problem with celebrations when warranted and the occasional scuffles or brush backs.

But pompous attitudes and subsequent actions, especially by the supposed "face" of baseball...

Meh, I can do without.

All that being said it doesn't affect my outlook on baseball. I will still watch the playoffs and follow my Braves and I think most loyalists are the same.

totally agree...except re the braves...yankees all the way!!!!!

[Snapolit1]

It's a good debate and needed for the sport. The idea that baseball was freeze dried decades ago and can never change is absurd. Baseball's history and tradition is exactly what sets it apart from all other sports, but they need to market the game better to young people. And getting all over players every time they fling a bat, pump their fist, or act joyful is idiocy.

All this unwritten rule stuff is beyond tired. Makes me chuckle to think that this time last year Bobby Parnell was schooling Noah Syndergaard about how to be a real major league ballplayer. Guy grabbed a bite during a meaningless spring training game and Parnell went nuts and embarrassed him in front of reporters. Yep, and now Bobby is probably behind the counter cooking the burgers. It's always the loud self-appointed Upholders of the Dignity of Baseball (Pappelbon, Schilling, Chad Curtis, Goose Gossage, etc.) who are the biggest jerks of all. More people have bought tickets to see Y. Puig than any of those guys.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

It's a good debate and needed for the sport. The idea that baseball was freeze dried decades ago and can never change is absurd. Baseball's history and tradition is exactly what sets it apart from all other sports, but they need to market the game better to young people. And getting all over players every time they fling a bat, pump their fist, or act joyful is idiocy.

All this unwritten rule stuff is beyond tired. Makes me chuckle to think that this time last year Bobby Parnell was schooling Noah Syndergaard about how to be a real major league ballplayer. Guy grabbed a bite during a meaningless spring training game and Parnell went nuts and embarrassed him in front of reporters. Yep, and now Bobby is probably behind the counter cooking the burgers. It's always the loud self-appointed Upholders of the Dignity of Baseball (Pappelbon, Schilling, Chad Curtis, Goose Gossage, etc.) who are the biggest jerks of all. More people have bought tickets to see Y. Puig than any of those guys.

Again, I think the clash between the two styles (old school vs new) is better than it being all one or the other. I can't wait to see each Puig vs Bumgarner match this year, after the two had nasty words for each other last year.

Re- earlier comment about Joe Horn, again, I'm all for more "Fun" in the No Fun League. I just think certain personalities pull it off better than others. Again, this will always be personal preference, but I think the guys who come across as genuinely light hearted and fun (Icky, Ochocinco, others) will always get away with more in their celebrations than the guys who come across as sort of serious, or forced in their celebrations.

For whatever reason, Horn, TO, always rubbed me wrong... maybe it's crap like TO allowing his teammate Derek Deese to fight his fight for him, against two Cowboys, while he just picked up the ball and ran back to the star... or the fact that just beforehand he ran right past Jeff Garcia who was trying to celebrate with him. He just always bugged me... maybe part of it are guys who think come across as above their own team.

Anyway, I digress from the baseball argument... conflict between old and new is good and entertaining.

[packs]

Goose Gossage sounded pretty tone deaf to me. He said Jose Bautista, someone who battled back from obscurity to become a star and led his team to the brink of the World Series, embarrassed Latino players because he celebrated sending his team to the Championship series.

That comment alone should be enough to make anyone tune out Goose. He has no place to say something like that and his comments should have been thrown out of the window as soon as he did. No one thinks like that anymore and it's time to get out of the way if you do.

[Mountaineer1999]

I find it ironic that so many on this baseball card forum do not want baseball cards to evolve but yet the game is old and stagnant. The cards of today are now considered garbage or overpriced junk. Guess what folks, the game many of you are wishing for here depicted on today's cards with flash and flair, no one wants to buy these cards. Don't turn baseball into a 2016 Bryce Harper Bowman Chrome SuperFractor! How about instead we leave the game a 1953 Bowman Color Pee Wee Reese?

[jkray25]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

The cards of today are now considered garbage or overpriced junk. Guess what folks, the game many of you here are wishing for here depicted on today's cards with flash and flair, no one wants to buy these cards. Don't turn baseball into a 2016 Bryce Harper Bowman Chrome SuperFractor! How about instead we leave the game a 1953 Bowman Color Pee Wee Reese?

We know......BUT they look so HIDEOUS!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer1999

I find it ironic that so many on this baseball card forum do not want baseball cards to evolve but yet the game is old and stagnant. The cards of today are now considered garbage or overpriced junk. Guess what folks, the game many of you here are wishing for here depicted on today's cards with flash and flair, no one wants to buy these cards. Don't turn baseball into a 2016 Bryce Harper Bowman Chrome SuperFractor! How about instead we leave the game a 1953 Bowman Color Pee Wee Reese?

+1

[Eric72]

A friendly reminder from the fun police:

OK, team. You've just recorded the final out and won the World Series. Please form an orderly line and proceed to the pitcher's mound for post-game celebratory handshakes. No running, jumping, or yelling, please. Remember, it's just a game and public displays of emotion are strongly discouraged.

ETA: After a round of stale, scripted press conferences, participation trophies will be awarded to both teams at the league sanctioned ice cream social.