PreWar Fakes by Price and Condition

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Hi all,

As far as I know, there is no better place to ask the following question.

What is the frequency of pre-war fakes ?

By this I mean: What is the distribution of fakes in the following price ranges, for example.

>$50
$50-$100
$100-250
$250-500
>$500

And how frequently would faked cards grade (if they were real)

Nm, E, Vg/Ex, Vg, lower.

I will let the contributors determine what constitutes a fake, however, it may be more meaningful if reprints were eliminated from discussion (except for when the seller does not mention the possibility of the authenticity being uncertain). Similarly a rebacked Old Judge is not considered by me, to be a fake, but a t206 which has had its back switched with another in an attempt to defraud is certainly a fake IMO.

Thank you,
Gil

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Posted By: Anonymous

What I meant, of course, was less than $50.

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Posted By: hankron

Ninety nine percent of the fakes is that stupid stuff you see on eBay: "I'm no expert. Selling as unauthenticated and ungraded. No refund." I assume most of this stuff sells under $50, though that's just a guess. If real, most of this stuff woudn't be graded as they are handcut or have other serious techincal problems.

If you're talking about more advanced stuff-- rebacked T206 Cy Youngs, altered T206 Magies-- those things are much rarer. If sold, some of these would likely sell more than $500. If real, some of these would be graded 1-10.

I'm aware of a few serious high end forgeries of previously unknown items (e.g. the forger made them up). These are usually expensive (many to most >$500), but are rare. Again, these are not counterfeit T206 Cobbs or Goudey Ruths, but 'new discoveries' you would have never seen before. If real, some might be graded (e.g. given a grade 1-10, as opposed to 'authentic') but many would not be graded as they are handcut or whatever..

Most fakes sell under $50 and, even if real, would be not be graded 1-10 by reputable graders.

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Posted By: The Other One (Julie)

Seller (I spent $20) says he's NOT the originator, but no one has been able to tell me where this picture came from--specifically, what card. It is an excellent front job-- there even appear to be layers of lithgography--and would have been a good choice for a card. The dark pink El P de G back ruins everything, of course.

Anyway, seller says it's a REPRINT--a REPRINT OF WHAT?

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Thank you Hankron, your insight is quite reassuring, I had concern that the extent of the fakes being offered was greater than it is.

Gil

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Posted By: hankron

Gil,

In most areas of collecting, 99 percent of the forgers are not trying to fool Bill Mastro or Lew Lipset or even experienced collectors. They are trying to make a quick buck by fooling total beginners. Most forgeries on the market are not creations of master printers who got a hold of the original printing plates. Most forgeries are on the order of those comical T206 Honus Wagners that look as if they were made on one's computer printer and perculated with the morning coffee.

As 99 percent of the fakes are intented for collectors who have no experience or knowledge, this means that a collector who gains a certain basic level of knowledge ane experience will become immune to 99 percent of the fakes.

I have never been a fan of professional graders, but, as far as authenticity goes (as opposed to trimming, labelling etc), buying known cards graded by reputable graders is a reliable way to go for a collector. Graders have and will make errors, but for the most part the top graders are not going to encapsulate counterfeits of commonly known cards.

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Posted By: Joe P.

But always there to remind us of the creative wannabees and plastic experts.

http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_5.html

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Posted By: Mark

Any ideas?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=5119539672

Thanks.

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

Not sure what these are, but I looked at most them and the photos are of Mordecai Brown, Carl Hubbell, Grover Alexander, Bill Dickey, etc. Whatever they are, they aren't from 1906 - the "Duffy Lewis" card pictures Lefty Grove.

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Posted By: Mark

That's just..bizarre.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I think David is right on the money vis a vis fake cards. An experienced collector will weed out 99% of them without much trouble.

I think there are more altered cards out there than fake cards per se, but far fewer than the card grading services want us to think. My experience has been that there are a considerable number of colored-in dark bordered cards out there, so I am very cautious on those. Also, anything in a PRO holder has to be considered altered.