Hey, pennant guys

[effe]

Might be glue stains from the photo.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by ser1979

Need help from the cleaning experts on this one. Picked up this 74 team pennant the other day. Been cleaning with water / bleach mixture and so far its done pretty good at getting the brown out. Issue I have is the photo was so bad I had to cut it out and there are some stains that just won't go away. I've tried using retro clean on the stains with no luck. Before I go to just straight bleach does anyone else have a suggestion. I only paid $25 for it so if I ruin it I wont be heart broken.

That pennant is definitely bleachable. You just need to be sure to cover the spine and not get the bleach near the spine or it'll get discolored.

Fair warning. bleaching can cause colors to bleed.

Rob has posted photos and instructions in the past. But in short, use masking tape to fix the pennant in a shower. (The spine should be at the top and the tip pointing down.) Ensure the masking tape is covering the whole of the spine. Get a bottle of spray bleach and spray the pennant working you're way from the area near the spine to the tip. Leave it to sit for 10 mins (maybe more). Then rinse (while still keeping the spine covered).

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Since we have no oversized 1910's pennants to talk about, let's discuss these stiff orange things a little more..

First of all, is the original "crowd at feet" Giants pennant AdFlag? It kind of seems that way, but Kyle does not show it in his blog. I actually kind of like this pennant, with the adoring crowd of men, women and a kid. All it's missing is a dog! Kyle does show Marc's Astos pennant as being AdFlag.

Now, for the stiff orange things.. besides the orange "crowd at feet" and New York Giants "Giant in the Polo Grounds," there's also this one. It's a remake of a non-AdFlag (Trench?). This one is available for the bargain price of $99.99. These three are, obviouly, all Giants. Were they done with other teams/designs? I don't think AdFlag did them because Kyle says AdFlag was out of the sports pennant business in the mid 60s. These seem later.

Speaking of Kyle...I'm jonesing for some new content on Pennant Fever. I know he's busy but he teased an article on AMCO(?).

The tiny fans worshiping the Giant pennant looks like ADFLAG's work, to me.

Those two repros you showed--originally done in the 1950s by Trench--were released around 1980 by ... Trench, best I can tell. They remade a few of their 1950s-era designs, and these repros were sold for a few years. Later versions of the repro will be framed in white, because they were printed on white felt.

New content posted on Pennant Factory just this month. New piece being written, as we speak, for Pennant Fever due out in a few weeks.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

New content posted on Pennant Factory just this month. New piece being written, as we speak, for Pennant Fever due out in a few weeks.

Wow! I’m way behind on your recreations! That will give me something to read while I wait for your next pennantfever blog.

It’s a shame I hate all “your” teams.

[effe]

Picked this one up this weekend. This is the first example of this particular pennant I've found that hadn't faded to gray.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by effe

Picked this one up this weekend. This is the first example of this particular pennant I've found that hadn't faded to gray.

That’s a beauty!

[UKCardGuy]

Agreed. That Braves pennant looks to be in excellent condition. Great pickup.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by effe

Picked this one up this weekend. This is the first example of this particular pennant I've found that hadn't faded to gray.

Great pickup. Tough one, let alone in that condition. Very nice find!

[Vintagedeputy]

I cannot understand the auction mentality of some people.

I was watching a pennant auction. Starting price was $9.00 and it’s probably a $30 pennant. With 3 days left in the auction, someone jumped the bid from $9 to $33. Why?

I can’t understand why people feel the need to bid so high with so many days left to go. Makes me crazy.

[UKCardGuy]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I cannot understand the auction mentality of some people.

I was watching a pennant auction. Starting price was $9.00 and it’s probably a $30 pennant. With 3 days left in the auction, someone jumped the bid from $9 to $33. Why?

I can’t understand why people feel the need to bid so high with so many days left to go. Makes me crazy.

I kind of like when people do that because I get a feel of the demand before the last minute and I can adjust my final bids accordingly.

Sometimes, I'll even make a bid (not at my maximum) a few days before an auction ends to see who bites. If I see my bid is automatically outbid, then I know that someone has possibly put a high max bid. If I see two people outbid me in within an hour then I know that there are a number of keen bidders.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I cannot understand the auction mentality of some people. I was watching a pennant auction. Starting price was $9.00 and it’s probably a $30 pennant. With 3 days left in the auction, someone jumped the bid from $9 to $33. Why? I can’t understand why people feel the need to bid so high with so many days left to go. Makes me crazy.

I think one theory is that a high early bid going into the close will drive out some of those who might otherwise get caught up in the last-minute frenzy and keep bidding past their original intention. Or perhaps they don't snipe and just want to put in their max bid early in case they forget about or don't want to have to remember to do any more bidding. And doesn't the jump mean there is an underbidder at about the same level, and if so how can it be seen as unreasonable? To me, it's always seemed the best approach to put in your max bid early and let it ride. If you're really intent on grabbing something, put in a big max bid. That's just me, however.

[effe]

I don't know if anyone on my post in the pin thread, but I posted this recent pick-up there. The reason I'm posting here is to ask if anyone here knows (or thinks) these may be ASCOs. I've asked around and the Braves experts I know really had nothing to add. BMW currently has the Mathews listed on Ebay and I've seen a couple others (both Mathews). They are photos mounted to cardboard surrounded by a felt frame.

[effe]

One more question. If you've purchased a pennant that came with a bamboo cane what do you do with it? Is there any way to display a pennant on the cane?

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by effe

I don't know if anyone on my post in the pin thread, but I posted this recent pick-up there. The reason I'm posting here is to ask if anyone here knows (or thinks) these may be ASCOs. I've asked around and the Braves experts I know really had nothing to add. BMW currently has the Mathews listed on Ebay and I've seen a couple others (both Mathews). They are photos mounted to cardboard surrounded by a felt frame.

I do believe these are ASCO or Wincraft. I have not seen these before, but they look very similar and with the rarity of Wisconsin related photos pennants, it wouldn’t surprise me at all.

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by effe

I don't know if anyone on my post in the pin thread, but I posted this recent pick-up there. The reason I'm posting here is to ask if anyone here knows (or thinks) these may be ASCOs. I've asked around and the Braves experts I know really had nothing to add. BMW currently has the Mathews listed on Ebay and I've seen a couple others (both Mathews). They are photos mounted to cardboard surrounded by a felt frame.

Never seen anything like these....

Could be ASCO's work; but, most of their photo pennants from the 1960s had their mark printed on the backs of their photos.

Interesting pieces!

[perezfan]

Hey, just a heads-up to announce a new TSOG episode that focuses on 2 beautiful early teens pennants. Two of my favorites of all-time. Hope you'll view it and give it a "like" or subscribe, if you see fit.

Many thanks for looking...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzJ4gSU09MU

[UKCardGuy]

Another great episode Mark.

[MK]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Hey, just a heads-up to announce a new TSOG episode that focuses on 2 beautiful early teens pennants. Two of my favorites of all-time. Hope you'll view it and give it a "like" or subscribe, if you see fit.

Many thanks for looking...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzJ4gSU09MU

Enjoyed it Mark. I may be mistaken, but is there a midsize version of this Cubs pennant? Seems I remember hearing about at one time.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by MK

Enjoyed it Mark. I may be mistaken, but is there a midsize version of this Cubs pennant? Seems I remember hearing about at one time.

Thanks Gary and Mike...

No midsize version that I am aware of. But there is an oversized version. Mastro had one before going defunct. The Reproduction Company made both the Cubs and Athletics vertical pennants in 3/4 and Oversize. For whatever reason, the Athletics pennant seems to outnumber the Cubs by about 5 to 1.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Hey, just a heads-up to announce a new TSOG episode that focuses on 2 beautiful early teens pennants. Two of my favorites of all-time. Hope you'll view it and give it a "like" or subscribe, if you see fit.

Many thanks for looking...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzJ4gSU09MU

Absolute things of beauty!

[MK]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Thanks Gary and Mike...

No midsize version that I am aware of. But there is an oversized version. Mastro had one before going defunct. The Reproduction Company made both the Cubs and Athletics vertical pennants in 3/4 and Oversize. For whatever reason, the Athletics pennant seems to outnumber the Cubs by about 5 to 1.

Thanks Mark. I thought I remembered two different sizes.

[bocca001]

This 1962 Giants pennant is... strange. It is on the rare side and I have some questions about quality control. I bought the one on the bottom a week or so ago. My other two have some damage and this new one wasn't all that expensive. The first one I ever bought has the spine bleed. The second one is pretty nice, but it has a hole in it and very strange wrinkles. When I saw the third one (on the bottom) listed on ebay, it looked like it might be in better condition. It turns out that the ebay pic presented the pennant in a very favorable light and it was a kind of dirty. I've managed to clean it pretty well with a wet cloth.

When I put them all together, I noticed a few things. This new one is clearly a slightly different color, even after you take condition into account. And it is smaller (height and length). And the material is kind of different for each pennant.

But the strangest thing to me is that all three have some differences among the batters (see how many differences you can spot). Seems very strange for what was likely a very briefly made pennant. Not sure if this happened because of the screens being copied at some point? There being multiple versions of the same screen(s)? Or.... just natural variation from pennant to pennant when humans are involved.

[ooo-ribay]

Very strange, Marc. To me, the size difference is not a huge mystery - just a different piece of felt. Same with any color difference.

The different graphics are harder to explain. As far as I know (or guess), this is a “one off” pennant by an unknown maker. I would think (guess) they only had one screen. This is obviously not the case, since two bats are outlined and one is filled in. Maybe Kyle has previously opined on how many pennants a maker could get from one screen? Are you able to lay one pennant on another, with a bright light behind, to see if the batter dimensions are actually different? If you can’t do that, do measurements confirm they are different?

Weird.

edit: to my eye, the two batters with the outlined bat look the same. Are they not the same? The filled in bat version has some other differences to the batter.

[Domer05]

This maker likely had multiple screens in use, at the time of production, to accelerate completion of this run given how little time they had to make these. That year, I believe, the Dodgers and Giants ended the season in a tie, forcing a best of three playoff. So, very little time to complete the job before game#1 of the world series, where these likely sold.

The differences in the artwork may just come down to the artist making multiple drawings, each with subtle differences, to test them to see what translated best on to felt. Apparently, they liked "hollow bat" variant best; but, could live with "solid bat"--especially if they could put his stencil into use and thereby speed things up??

[bocca001]

The smaller pennant actually has smaller graphics. The batter is smaller than on the other two (my close up pics of the three batters likely messed up the scale). And there are some slight differences in the two hollow batter versions. Thus, multiple versions of the screen seems to make the most sense.

How common might this have been for something made by Trench, or some other larger company? I also assume the screens wore out after some time?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bocca001

The smaller pennant actually has smaller graphics. The batter is smaller than on the other two

I should have been able to see that.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Domer05

This maker likely had multiple screens in use, at the time of production, to accelerate completion of this run given how little time they had to make these. That year, I believe, the Dodgers and Giants ended the season in a tie, forcing a best of three playoff. So, very little time to complete the job before game#1 of the world series, where these likely sold.

The differences in the artwork may just come down to the artist making multiple drawings, each with subtle differences, to test them to see what translated best on to felt. Apparently, they liked "hollow bat" variant best; but, could live with "solid bat"--especially if they could put his stencil into use and thereby speed things up??

Excellent info, as always.

I like how you said you “believe” the 1962 season ended in a tie between the Giants and Dodgers. You know damn well it did and you know how that turned out!

[Fballguy]

Anybody seen these before? They qualified for my "if you haven't seen it before, you should probably buy it" rule so I took a flier. Can't find any info. Even reached out to Net54's resident Japan baseball expert and he hadn't seen and couldn't find any additional detail. 27" long. Sadaharu Oh and Shigeo Nagashima.

[ooo-ribay]

^^^ Almost looks like the original 60 year old plastic!

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Excellent info, as always.

I like how you said you “believe” the 1962 season ended in a tie between the Giants and Dodgers. You know damn well it did and you know how that turned out!

Yeah, it turned out about like the '51 season the previous decade....

...A Giant loss to the Yankees

[Domer05]

Originally Posted by bocca001

How common might this have been for something made by Trench, or some other larger company? I also assume the screens wore out after some time?

It was common for makers to employ multiple screens (stencils) during each production run; especially when rushing to complete a big order. You had to. And the more colors the pennant required, the more screens/stencils you'd need.

The screens wouldn't exactly wear out from the force of the squeegee--they're pretty resilient. But occasionally, the mesh might tear or develop holes, e.g., if it wasn't stored properly.

When I was researching Salem Screen Printers, I learned a lot about these rush orders and the logistical nightmare that they presented manufacturers. Sometimes you only had 72 hours to print your merch; and then, you had to ship the product to the venue where the retail vendors needed it. To save time, Salem just contracted with local screen printing firms. Salem would develop the artwork; but the final print job might be performed by some Chicago-area firm, closer to Chicago Stadium, where the merch was headed in 1991.

I suspect that was done in the 1960s as well. This would seemingly explain some of the inconsistencies we've been seeing in the pennants made during these rush jobs.

Here's two more from the '63 world series by Trench Mfg. Co. No clue why the "1963" orientation was altered, but it was. Probably one was made/sold in Los Angeles and the other was made in Trench's Buffalo factory, then sold in the Bronx.

[ooo-ribay]

Maybe someone said "1 96 3 looks really awkward"?

[rlevy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Maybe someone said "1 96 3 looks really awkward"?

Only to a Giant fan having to sit this one out.

Personally, I always preferred the version on the top.

Rick

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Anybody seen these before? They qualified for my "if you haven't seen it before, you should probably buy it" rule so I took a flier. Can't find any info. Even reached out to Net54's resident Japan baseball expert and he hadn't seen and couldn't find any additional detail. 27" long. Sadaharu Oh and Shigeo Nagashima.

Wow, those are great!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by rlevy

Only to a Giant fan having to sit this one out.

Personally, I always preferred the version on the top.

Rick

I like the dark blue but not the 1 96 3.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Domer05

It was common for makers to employ multiple screens (stencils) during each production run; especially when rushing to complete a big order. You had to. And the more colors the pennant required, the more screens/stencils you'd need.

The screens wouldn't exactly wear out from the force of the squeegee--they're pretty resilient. But occasionally, the mesh might tear or develop holes, e.g., if it wasn't stored properly.

When I was researching Salem Screen Printers, I learned a lot about these rush orders and the logistical nightmare that they presented manufacturers. Sometimes you only had 72 hours to print your merch; and then, you had to ship the product to the venue where the retail vendors needed it. To save time, Salem just contracted with local screen printing firms. Salem would develop the artwork; but the final print job might be performed by some Chicago-area firm, closer to Chicago Stadium, where the merch was headed in 1991.

I suspect that was done in the 1960s as well. This would seemingly explain some of the inconsistencies we've been seeing in the pennants made during these rush jobs.

Here's two more from the '63 world series by Trench Mfg. Co. No clue why the "1963" orientation was altered, but it was. Probably one was made/sold in Los Angeles and the other was made in Trench's Buffalo factory, then sold in the Bronx.

There was a very large “find” of these back in the late 80’s. Unfortunately, I cannot remember which one was found in quantity.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by bocca001

This 1962 Giants pennant is... strange. It is on the rare side and I have some questions about quality control. I bought the one on the bottom a week or so ago. My other two have some damage and this new one wasn't all that expensive. The first one I ever bought has the spine bleed. The second one is pretty nice, but it has a hole in it and very strange wrinkles. When I saw the third one (on the bottom) listed on ebay, it looked like it might be in better condition. It turns out that the ebay pic presented the pennant in a very favorable light and it was a kind of dirty. I've managed to clean it pretty well with a wet cloth.

When I put them all together, I noticed a few things. This new one is clearly a slightly different color, even after you take condition into account. And it is smaller (height and length). And the material is kind of different for each pennant.

But the strangest thing to me is that all three have some differences among the batters (see how many differences you can spot). Seems very strange for what was likely a very briefly made pennant. Not sure if this happened because of the screens being copied at some point? There being multiple versions of the same screen(s)? Or.... just natural variation from pennant to pennant when humans are involved.

Quality control must not have been great as with my version they literally cut another piece of screened felt and glued it on the pennant at the bottom. I don’t know what’s underneath, but most likely American League champions.

[Fballguy]

Much nicer in person. The plastic must've been 40-50 years old. Tape practically turned to dust.

PS...Shipped on 10/1, delivered on 10/7 from Japan. That's faster than mail from Canada.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Much nicer in person. The plastic must've been 40-50 years old. Tape practically turned to dust.

PS...Shipped on 10/1, delivered on 10/7 from Japan. That's faster than mail from Canada.

Beautiful! What size are they?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

Beautiful! What size are they?

10.5" by 28" not including fringe.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Quality control must not have been great as with my version they literally cut another piece of screened felt and glued it on the pennant at the bottom. I don’t know what’s underneath, but most likely American League champions.

Even a Giants fan can appreciate how cool and rare that is!

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

10.5" by 28" not including fringe.

Nice! Basically, “full size.” 👍

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Much nicer in person. The plastic must've been 40-50 years old. Tape practically turned to dust. PS...Shipped on 10/1, delivered on 10/7 from Japan. That's faster than mail from Canada.

Wow, what a difference! Are those real signatures?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Wow, what a difference! Are those real signatures?

They sure appear to be. Not sure how prevalent forgery is in Japan. I'm thinking not as likely as in the U.S.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

They sure appear to be. Not sure how prevalent forgery is in Japan. I'm thinking not as likely as in the U.S.

Send them to PSA!

[Vintagedeputy]

Pennant sighting!

I was watching a video online of when the New York football Giants stadium opened in 1976. They showed a scene of fans tailgating outside, and I spotted this beautiful Giants pennant on the table with the food.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Pennant sighting!

I was watching a video online of when the New York football Giants stadium opened in 1976. They showed a scene of fans tailgating outside, and I spotted this beautiful Giants pennant on the table with the food.

Are they using it for a place mat?

I had this sighting recently. I think this was an ad on eBay.

[thetahat]

Interesting

https://sports.ha.com/itm/football-c...ription-071515

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by bocca001

This 1962 Giants pennant is... strange. It is on the rare side and I have some questions about quality control. I bought the one on the bottom a week or so ago. My other two have some damage and this new one wasn't all that expensive. The first one I ever bought has the spine bleed. The second one is pretty nice, but it has a hole in it and very strange wrinkles. When I saw the third one (on the bottom) listed on ebay, it looked like it might be in better condition. It turns out that the ebay pic presented the pennant in a very favorable light and it was a kind of dirty. I've managed to clean it pretty well with a wet cloth.

When I put them all together, I noticed a few things. This new one is clearly a slightly different color, even after you take condition into account. And it is smaller (height and length). And the material is kind of different for each pennant.

But the strangest thing to me is that all three have some differences among the batters (see how many differences you can spot). Seems very strange for what was likely a very briefly made pennant. Not sure if this happened because of the screens being copied at some point? There being multiple versions of the same screen(s)? Or.... just natural variation from pennant to pennant when humans are involved.

What’s peculiar about these is that the style is unlike any other pennants I’ve seen. Closest to Keezer, I guess, but I’m not sure it’s them. Can you post a pic of the rear stitching?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Interesting

https://sports.ha.com/itm/football-c...ription-071515

Cool….but I’m not sure I need seven of them.