Greatest quarterback you have seen?

[HRBAKER]

Wrong. Barry Bonds never won anything.
His postseason BA = .245 including three postseasons where he batted under .200.

Moss was there for 3+ years - he will be a HOF. He was one bf he got there.
Welker has a shot - Wayne has just a good a shot to me and certainly Harrison does too.
Gronk looks like he is well on his way but he has shown a proclivity to get injured.

Id also say Edgerrin James will be a HOFer long bf any back Brady played an extended period of time with.
Same can be said for Roger Craig.

I don't remember the Wayne play but I would also say that playing less than ordinary against the Seattle D cost Manning his second Super Bowl as well.
Good thing Tom knew exactly what D they would be in every play this time around - especially the fourth quarter.

You've added a whole new spin to this though - Tom owes his success largely to his kicker.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I don't remember the Wayne play but I would also say that playing less than ordinary against the Seattle D cost Manning his second Super Bowl as well.
Good thing Tom knew exactly what D they would be in every play this time around - especially the fourth quarter.

You've added a whole new spin to this though - Tom owes his success largely to his kicker.

You must not watch the Super Bowl when NE doesn't play. In the Colts-Saints SB, Manning was driving to tie the game in the 4th quarter. Manning audibled to a quick pass against a Saints blitz. For some reason Wayne half-assed his route and it resulted in a pick 6 that put the game away.

You really don't think Brady owes a big part of his success to Adam Vinateri? If he doesn't make two kicks in the snow vs. the Raiders, Brady doesn't come close to SB 36, won on his last second FG. SB 38 also won on his last second FG. Be glad Scott Norwood wasn't your kicker or Mike Vanderjagt who was one of the most accurate kickers of all time, but missed key playoff FGs against the Dolphins and Steelers, ending two Manning playoff runs.

[HRBAKER]

I simply said I don't remember the play, I didn't say it didn't happen. Manning had ample chance to win a 2nd Super Bowl last year again - he came up noticeably short, again. He has 3 TD passes in 132 SB pass attempts. That's not all lazy route running.

They're not my kickers - I'm an Arizona Cardinals fan not a Pats fan. And no, I don't think Brady or NE owes an inordinate amount of their success to their kickers. It's an interesting narrative though. It is certainly better to have a good one than one that sucks. At the end of the day someone has to put the kicker in the position to win it for you.