O/T John Smoltz

[Peter_Spaeth]

With a designation for assignment today by the Red Sox (thankfully, he was atrocious this year), his great career may be over. Is he a Hall of Famer? His lifetime record is less impressive than you might think -- 212-152 -- although of course for several seasons he pitched in relief. One Cy Young award, 8 all star selections. According to baseballreference.com, statistically the most comparable pitchers are Kevin Brown (!!), Curt Schilling and Bob Welch. Not exactly elite company. I think because of the years as a reliever and his popularity he makes it, but I don't think it's a compelling case.

[tothrk]

Didn't he have a fairly solid post season record?

[calvindog]

Absolutely he's in the HOF. 200 wins, 150 saves and the most postseason wins of alltime. He's a lock.

[slantycouch]

Wait, what's wrong with Kevin Brown?





Oh, right.

[glynparson]

So I'd say absolutely. he was considered by many of his peers to be one of if not the toughest pitcher they faced, when he was in his prime. I must admit though I am fairly lenient on who I would put in the Hall. I see it as a place to tell the history of the game and I feel he belongs as part of the story of baseball in the era he pitched.

[Peter_Spaeth]

197 wins, 390 saves. A far more compelling case than Smoltz, IMHO.

[slidekellyslide]

I wish Smoltz and Glavine would have retired last season...I would have loved to have seen Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz all go into the hall together.

[tothrk]

Eck also had about 350 more appearances and 600 less strikeouts than smoltz.

[barrysloate]

After I saw Smoltz's line in the paper this morning, and his bloated season ERA, it crossed my mind that he might have pitched his last game. When I heard he was going to be released I wasn't even surprised. Why a 42 year old pitcher with nothing left in the tank couldn't retire before embarrassing himself is a mystery.

I think he will get into the hall even though his stats are not exceptional. He excelled as both a starter and reliever, and that will be his ticket in.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

197 wins, 390 saves. A far more compelling case than Smoltz, IMHO.

Much better hair as well!

[chaddurbin]

if jim rice made it, then just let everyone in...smoltz, dale murphy, andre dawson, sam horn, rob deer...am i missing anybody else?

edit: smoltz is borderline, but with how the hof are voting he'd probably be in on his 5th or 6th year of eligibility. he's not a hof'er in my book, and that's what important to me.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I wish Smoltz and Glavine would have retired last season...I would have loved to have seen Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz all go into the hall together.

They would not have gone in together,, Maddux gets in on his first try, Glavine probably gets in on his first try, Smoltz does not.

[showtime]

he'll be in within the first 3 years of eligibility with a small shot in the first year based on what many voters have said today on espn. its a small sample of all the voters but i have yet to hear a voter say no.

[toppcat]

I think Smoltz gets on on no more than three tries, possibly the first. I saw him pitch his entire career, he is absolutely a hall of famer.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

197 wins, 390 saves. A far more compelling case than Smoltz, IMHO.

Yes, maybe so...but Eck went in the first year he was eligible. So Eck was about as compelling as one can be (based on that).

Eck & Smoltz are still the only 2 players in history to have both a 20 win season and a 50 save season.

Cheers,
Blair

[joeadcock]

Maddux is definitely in on the first ballot. Glavine probably in first try, maybe not.
Smolt defnitely not in on first try.

Based on his time relieving and what he achieved as a starter, he will likely get it.

Great trio though.
(still remember Bedrosian, McMurtry, etc).

Frank L.

[slidekellyslide]

I think Glavine is a lock for first year of eligibility....who else are they going to put in? We're getting to the point where it's guys who played in the steroid era and the writers have already made it clear that anyone even suspected isn't going to go in.

[tothrk]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

if jim rice made it, then just let everyone in...smoltz, dale murphy, andre dawson, sam horn, rob deer...am i missing anybody else?

edit: smoltz is borderline, but with how the hof are voting he'd probably be in on his 5th or 6th year of eligibility. he's not a hof'er in my book, and that's what important to me.

1. comparing murph & dawson to horn & deer is most likely criminal in the civilized world.

2. Had it not been for injuries, Smoltz' numbers would destroy Eck's

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I think Glavine is a lock for first year of eligibility....who else are they going to put in?

I agree completely. The guy won 300 games -- how many guys can say that? He's a lock to get in his first year.

[tbob]

It's not surprising that "surly guys" with better stats don't get in the Hall for a long time (or at all) while smiling "good guys" do. I guess if Bert Blyleven had been more personable, he would have been in years ago. Look at his number of shutouts, complete games, (yes he didn't quite win 300 games), and top 5 all time in strikeouts and tell me why he is not in. I believe he won World Series games for 2 different clubs (Twins and Pirates) and pitched much of his career for miserable teams.
Maybe Smoltz is deserving but if he is, you've got to let Bert in.

[FrankWakefield]

Quan, that's what I was thinking after Carter and Puckett got in...


Smoltz was a good pitcher. I enjoyed seeing him work. I think he'll eventually make the Hall. I don't think that he should, but he will. I think Glavin and Maddux will get in, and Blyleven should.

[sbfinley]

Eventually, yes each will be enshrined. I know there have been cases before, Ripken, Ruth, Cobb, Aaron..., but seriously if Maddux isn't unanimous.... remove their vote.

[zork1974]

He's a lock. Did anyone mention the strikeouts? Over 3000 and 16th on the all-time list.

Plus, if Mariano is the best reliever of all time due to his playoff performances, Smoltz is a shoe-in with the most wins in postseason history by a starting pitcher.

I think the more important question is this. Who else is going to retire this season? As we all know, sometimes the competition determines how the voting goes.

By the way, some of the earlier posts seemed to question Maddux (maybe it was just the way the posts came across). As sbfinley stated, "but seriously if Maddux isn't unanimous.... remove their vote." Guys, he's one of the greatest pitchers of all time. Maddux had better best Seaver at 98.84%. I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't vote for him.

[SmokyBurgess]

I vote Yes on Smoltz in the HOF.

Wish Mussina would get more consideration also. I appreciate what the finess pitchers (Moyer, Glavine, etc) did in the steroid era now.

[nolemmings]

He'll probably get in, but he's no lock. The comparison to Schilling and Kevin Brown is apt. He's nowhere near as good a pitcher as Blyleven, or Jack Morris either, for that matter.

He pitched almost exlclusively for EXTREMELY good teams, and was a number three starter, meaning he seldom matched up against the other teams' best or even next best pitcher--yet he still won more than 17 games exactly once.
Although a good strikeout pitcher, he finished in the top 5 in E.R.A. only twice, and twice in wins. While he deserves credit for three great years as a reliever, it was just that, three years--and in his best save year he had a worse ERA than six pitchers on his own team--slightly better than #4 starter Damian Moss and #5 reliever Kevin Grabowski.

Hey, he'll probably get in, and I don't dislike the guy, but he just did not have the dominating presence I would expect of a HOFer, and certainly not a first ballot lock.

[oldjudge]

Whenever I think of whether a player merits induction into the HOF I think of my general impression of him as a player (how dominant was he when he played, how did I feel about my team facing him). I think Smoltz is a no question HOFer. I thought the same thing about Rice. When Blylevin played I never thought of him as one of the league's best so I don't think he is a HOFer. Mattingly was a HOFer for half of his career until his back gave out. Murphy was also a half career HOFer. Sorry, but I don't think Ozzie Smith or Kirby Puckett are HOFers either.

[paul]

Glavine's 300 wins do not make him a first ballot lock. Ask Early Wynn, Don Sutton, and Phil Niekro. He will definitely make it. He might even make it on the first ballot. But it's no guarantee.

[calvindog]

Paul, I agree, you're right. I like Glavine for the HOF but only because of his ultimate win total. Nap Lajoie, Tris Speaker, Cy Young and Rogers Hornsby didn't get in their first tries. Mordecai Brown only got in via the Veterans' Committee. Why the hell should Tom Glavine or John Smoltz get in on their first five tries?

[refz]

i dont know about hof for smoltz but hes done something few pitchers could do, go from starter to reliever, then to closer. and was sucessful at all of them.

regards

Danny