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  #11  
Old 12-01-2017, 11:19 AM
packs packs is offline
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Isn't Keating at PSA? If so, he or his team failed the signature.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2017, 01:44 PM
theshleps theshleps is offline
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Default Keating

The Cooper is on a cardboard like paper cut to a 3x5. Keating looked at it at the national and said it was no good but didn't say why. But again they are rejecting most vintage ones these days - even ones everyone else says are real. Was also rejected at PSA but when you submit to them you have no idea who looked at it. The earlier negro league guys often signed slowly. There was a cooper sold recently at Clean Sweep that looked nothing like this- cert by JSA- looked almost printed. Wondered how he certified that. Haven't seen any exemplars other than the Keating one I posted
Not trying to convince and I appreciate the input and conversation
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2017, 02:37 PM
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If you compare it to Keating and Keating turned it down that seems like a solid opinion.
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2017, 02:59 PM
tazdmb tazdmb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshleps View Post
The Cooper is on a cardboard like paper cut to a 3x5. Keating looked at it at the national and said it was no good but didn't say why. But again they are rejecting most vintage ones these days - even ones everyone else says are real. Was also rejected at PSA but when you submit to them you have no idea who looked at it. The earlier negro league guys often signed slowly. There was a cooper sold recently at Clean Sweep that looked nothing like this- cert by JSA- looked almost printed. Wondered how he certified that. Haven't seen any exemplars other than the Keating one I posted
Not trying to convince and I appreciate the input and conversation
A couple of related items:
I previously owned the Pop Lloyd that Ron K. used as his exemplar in his book. I showed it to Kevin (and later PSA) at the 2015 National and they both said it was no good. I had a standing offer on the signature for a fixed amount by another buyer who knew it was real. I accepted less $$ than I would have had PSA passed it, but knew that it would tough to move now that PSA failed it.

As for the Cooper, I believe this once originated from Kevin Keating, as he was selling the same signature at the 2015 National. I asked him how could he be SURE it was real based on the printed signature, he said he knew where it came from and it had to be real. It was later sold by Christies and then consigned again to JSA. Here is a picture for others:

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/L...8-details.aspx
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2017, 03:33 PM
theshleps theshleps is offline
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So weird about the Cooper. When I talked to Stivers he said the same about my Cooper- he knew the provinence and then it matched kevins in the book. I bought mine just after the book came out. Now PSA doesn't want to know provenance- which in some cases like the Hanlon is important.
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  #16  
Old 12-01-2017, 04:28 PM
tazdmb tazdmb is offline
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Yes, I submitted a George Wright that was 100 percent good also in 2015 that failed PSA. No explanation was offered. I sat down with Steve Grad this year and showed him the autograph and all the history behind it. After carefully reviewing everything, and not just the autograph, it passed, as it should have. Perhaps u can reach out to Steve and maybe have beckett look at instead if you really feel it is good.
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  #17  
Old 12-02-2017, 04:12 PM
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chaddurbin chaddurbin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshleps View Post
But again they are rejecting most vintage ones these days - even ones everyone else says are real. Was also rejected at PSA but when you submit to them you have no idea who looked at it.
you can't keep saying that blanket statement like it's 100% forgone conclusion. maybe they're rejecting most of YOUR vintage items, but that may not be the case with everybody else. they wouldn't still be in business if this was true. i may get some pushback on here as i think a couple other people share that opinion, but that doesn't make it so.

you keep playing the game and TPA shop these sigs until maybe one of them agree with your opinion...but don't come on here and complain after the fact about it. it's the game you chose play! kinda ironic keating kind of rejected his own stuff tho.
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  #18  
Old 12-02-2017, 04:37 PM
theshleps theshleps is offline
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I do not send things to TPA's except if they re going to auction. I am a collector and only sell dupes. When they reject Bobby Doerr, harry Eisenstat and others who I got through the mail and who eveyone agrees are real something is going on. Most of my graphs came from Stinson, etc. I had them reject items I bought from their authenticators before they were working for PSA. I know at least 4 other big collectors who are experiencing 80%+ rejection rate on vintage signed cards while before they were running (as I was) a 90% acceptance rate. It is this policy change that mystifies us. I have showed my collection to some of the biggesr names in the busines plus it is posted on flickr for you to peruse. Small auction companies are finding the same thing and if it wasn't for the population report PSA would lose alot more customers to Beckett etc who appear to be judging more fairly. Let's not though have this conversation. The point of this post was to show a few items I was suspicious of in my collection and get confirmation that they were probably bad (except for the hanlon and cooper) as I trust the long time collectors on this forum more than some of the TPA's.
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  #19  
Old 12-18-2017, 02:48 AM
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Runscott Runscott is offline
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Collins and Bancroft are bad.

Nothing I am reading here convinces me that the Cooper is bad - Wayne Stivers is a better authority on Negro League autographs than Kevin Keating and the photo you provided is not clear enough to judge it. Doesn't mean it's good, but also doesn't mean it's bad. When an 'expert' won't say why they have an opinion, their opinion doesn't mean much, and I have plenty of books in my bookshelf that are full of errors.
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  #20  
Old 12-18-2017, 05:58 AM
Republicaninmass Republicaninmass is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaddurbin View Post
you can't keep saying that blanket statement like it's 100% forgone conclusion. maybe they're rejecting most of YOUR vintage items, but that may not be the case with everybody else. they wouldn't still be in business if this was true. i may get some pushback on here as i think a couple other people share that opinion, but that doesn't make it so.
They've been rejecting mine as well, even people players who are actively signing ttm, after "the head authenticator " reviewed them. Agreed it could just be mine as well, but we are talking easier names from the 1950s
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