Regional Food Issues Book – Any Interest?

[Tom B.]

As respected collectors, I am looking for some general feedback regarding a proposed book from F+W Media on regional food card sets. The book (table of contents and sample cover photo attached) will look at various regional issues: Esskay Meats, Post Cereal, JELL-O, Stahl-Meyer Franks, etc.

Not a price guide, this provides a background of the regional issue, its intricacies, a flavor for collecting them in that era and its resulting popularity today.

In this publishing climate, I need to present support for such a book prior to approved publication. If such a topic interests you, E-MAIL ME stating such so I can compile a portfolio of hobby support. Thank you.

[Rich Klein]

With sales of 1,000 or less copies.

Frankly, a book such as this is so fragmanted in today's hobby that unless you understand that the book will not come close to 10,000 copies or you are williing to deep deep discount the book immediatley --- there is no reason for this book to be done by F&W

I understand that book print runs may be secret by nature, but WE on this board are the readers for this tome and look even the SCD sub level is probably under 10K now and if you figure that 10 percent of that readership would purchase this book, we're back at the 1,000 level.

There is nothing wrong with "printing like this" but understand that the groundswell will not exist.


I wrote several messages before the standard catalog came out this year about my projections and I'll wager that I'm dead on. I saw the ad from F&W selling the book direct to the public at about $19 a couple of weeks ago. Which of course brings up the issue, why publish to wholesale out your own door.


Trust me, I would have loved to have tried to do something like this at beckett, but there is no mass appeal to this book.

Figure the best way to do this book, color laden photos, good glossy paper, basically a coffee table book and hope that you sell enough at $39.95 because of the quality in the book.


Regards
Rich

[Rich Klein]

After reading the PDF --- maybe a sell through of 500 copies.

Rich

[Chris Counts]

I realize it's a small market, but I'm looking forward to reading the book. I think the story of the regional food cards of the 50s and 60s is one of the most underrated chapters in the history of the hobby. When I first started collecting vintage cards in the mid-70s, the 50s regionals were the Holy Grails of many collectors. They had far more appeal than all the strange-looking pre-war sets that we often saw but knew little about. I also think the Kahn's Weiners cards deserve a chapter of their own, and it could easily be called, "The Weiner the World Awaited."

[Tom B.]

Appreciate the feedback. There aren't any delusions about a high print run for this. It would be a trade book, not mass market, with this audience as one of the main targets for sell-through.

[toppcat]

I've sent a note and encouraged others to do the same. I really hope this comes off. I have a copy of a 2009 Hot Wheels book done by F+W in what I assume is a similar style to the proposed regional book and it't fabulous.

Can F+W print to order or do they have to do a run of x copies?

I would add, after reading the TOC, that I hope all years of a particular set such as Post, are used, not just certain years. That may be your intention, I just can't tell.

Well-good luck with this!

[Rich Klein]

The advantages is that the articles have probably been already written for SCD and thus no extra writers cost.

I'm glad there are no delusions on print run.

I will still say I anticipate a sell through between 500-750 copies

Rich

[steve B]

I'd be interested, but the final decision would come down to the book itself.

The chapters shown look like more of an "adventures in collecting" sort of thing, which I like if it's well done.

something with some depth and entertaining to read at a decent price point works for me. Or extremely in depth at whatever price. Interestingly enough at least a few of the more price guide like books about stamps have migrated to an online book. interesting progression, great catalog at $100 from the authors, no update expected- update expected, to be discounted for the original buyers - Updates sent electronically but free to original buyers - Catalog online and partly updated on occasion. Not so hot for those of us who prefer actual books, and spent the money, but overall better for a segment of the stamp hobby. (Specifically those who collect worldwith postage meter imprints- yeah, those machine printed usually reddish things that pay postage on your bills etc. Some of us actually collect them.) Talk about short sales expectations

Steve B

[lutherlafy]

My favorite sets are the mid 1950s regional meat & wiener sets.
Trying to get scans of all my favorite sets.
Still need a couple Esskays, several 1954-55 Hunter wieners.
Let me know if you think you might can help.
Book sounds good.

[insidethewrapper]

Will it cover regional sets or all food issues ? I thought Post Cereal was more than regional.

I think a complete food issue book would be good. This would cover all the regional meats etc. but also cover in depth Kelloggs, Post, Wheaties etc.

[Rich Klein]

I just received an email from Krause (F&W) with the 2011 Standard Catalog, the last one with "modern" pricing and the 2012 Standard Catalog for $14.95 each.

Three things,

1) At that price point, I encourge all hobbyists to pick up each book

2) Those prices also prove my point about book publishing. We already had a comment about how he would purchase this book at the "right" price. I think F&W will find that even selling 1000 copies, which to me is the absolute max at $19.95 retail won't really bring much profit to them. From reading the TOC, the only cost will be the actually printing of the pages since they still presumably own their own printing press in Iola.

As a corporation, I'd consider what the cost is to bring back the SC in full form at a higher price point and see if I can recover some of my monies that way. Plus after that, THEN prices can go on line for a fee as well.

3) I want it understood that I'm never against any hobby work -- but I don't want a work like this to be pubilshed at F&W to almost be a death knell. F&W could make much more money with some common sense.

Rich

[theseeker]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Will it cover regional sets or all food issues ? I thought Post Cereal was more than regional.

I think a complete food issue book would be good. This would cover all the regional meats etc. but also cover in depth Kelloggs, Post, Wheaties etc.

I second this. Expanding it from regonial issues to include all the major food issues would greatly add to the appeal. Both the regional and national food issues have been glossed over in the past, so a book devoted just to them would work at a higher price point-- for me.

I hate with a passion what has happened to the publishing industry. Reading books, newspapers, hobby price guides, and magazines on line simply isn't the same in terms of its depth, scope ,and enjoyment. Just as the remote control added to the ADD problem, the internet ushering in the demise of the print industry is adding to the dumbing down of America.

[Bob Lemke]

Rich . . .

F+W does not own any printing presses suitable for books, newspapers or magazines.

Chet Krause, and Cliff Mishler after him, always felt that such presses cost more in buildings, capitalization, maintenance, personnel, etc., than they were worth. All books and periodicals are jobbed out.

They had a few job presses to do envelopes, letterhead, promotional postcards, etc., back 10-20 years ago, but I'm not even sure they remain.

[Rich Klein]

TY for the update on the printing presses.

Then I'll go back and add a printing press charge to the book.

I wish this book could be done and profitably for F&W -- my best guess is that a few hundred dollars will be made on the book now.

The only way to add to the book is to make sure the book is reasonably comprehensive and have a complete price guide for each type of food issue with lots of photos included.

I know the advantage is that the articles are already written for the most part, without being comprehensive this is not even a prayer for the mainstream.

Rich

[Bob Lemke]

Rich . . .

Actually, I don't most of the articles have been written. At least not as comprehensively as they should be for a book of this. With the exception of some series that Stewart Jones did on Post cereal, SCD articles of the 1980s and 1990s really didn't cover as many of the potential card sets in the necessary depth. Add to that the enormous leaps in the knowledge base wrought by the internet, and most previously published material would be inadequate.

I'd see the need to have today's experts contribute the chapters germane to their baliwick.

And I agree . . . tons of color photos would be essential.

Sadly, I don't see how this could be made to be economically viable in the current hobby environment.

[Rich Klein]

Wants books to be done on the hobby more than I do. Any printed tome adds permancy to the hobby while the internet, while wonderful, does not last forever.

I'm glad Bob agrees with me on what the book should have in terms of completeness and color photos, etc. Believe it or not, I think we basically agree on the publishing problems of doing a work like this.

IF you can get 2,000 copies committed with a price point of $39.95 with the color photos, good articles, etc THEN I think the book is economically feasible for F&W.

I'll stick with my 1000 copies top BUT a commitment for SALES of 2.000 at the higher price point is a go where F&W will make money on the book. Of course that brings another challenge to get clients to commit to $39.95 but.


Rich

[Volod]

"...I hate with a passion what has happened to the publishing industry. Reading books, newspapers, hobby price guides, and magazines on line simply isn't the same in terms of its depth, scope ,and enjoyment. Just as the remote control added to the ADD problem, the internet ushering in the demise of the print industry is adding to the dumbing down of America."

Good points there, John, and I agree with most of them, but how 'bout this: the target audience for such a book would most likely be collectors who are well past the age of youthful fascination with the hobby. That is, those of us remaining who recall mid-50's regional issues from our youth. And, speaking strictly for myself, my eyes lost the ability to adjust focus on most printed media a couple of years ago, as just a consequence of ageing. Text on a digital monitor is now the only type that I can comfortably read, with or without artificial lenses. That may, in fact, be contributing to my continued dumbing down, but, if it ends up being the only reading material available, so be it.

[theseeker]

Volod, I honestly always enjoy your contributions to this board and think it's great that this new technology is able to help with your circumstances. My "dumbing down" commit was in no way directed at you but rather the "instant gratification" generation and it's use of google search to put together it's school work assignments. A far more thorough depth of knowledge is provided by repeatative, traditional textbook study. Educators at all levels seem to argee-- the internet in many ways is a hinderance. This Counry's steep decline in test scores in comparison to past generations and with that of students from other Leading Industrial Nations has accelerated during the internets rise in popularity.

Having lived most of my life without it, I know I can't imagine life without the internet but, it has come at a cost. Diminished magazine sections, newspapers that are a shell of their former selves, and the less personal nature of this hobby are casualties of the internet age. There is a distinct danger of internet bloggers replacing most of what's left of respectable newspaper reporting.

As for the proposed book, I am surprised to hear that despite the hobbies demographics, a high quality product can't be cost-effectively produced-- not despite of, but because of the internet. The software used in today's print industry is inexpensive and user freindly. There are numerous overseas companies that will take on such a project from start-to-finish or by printing after the software portion of the project is completed. The transaction can all be done online. The cause of the print indusries decline could also be its salvation.

[Volod]

I hear ya, John. And I agree with your concerns about print publication and its slow, agonizing death. If only we could put the genie back into the bottle, eh? I cancelled my newspaper subscription because Parade magazine nauseated me too much, but the real reason was i just can't read the fine type in the other sections anymore.

[steve B]

Speaking from personal experience the remote didn't change my ADD, it just let me sit farther from the TV.


I think one of the problems will be the hobby itself. The majority of collectors aren't interested in looking at something with any depth.

A book with some depth hidden amongst tales of searching for the cards would probably do well.

It's somewhat amazing to me that stamp collecting can support many incredibly detailed books at rather high price points while Sports collecting can't seem to support even one good quality catalog. The stamp equivalent to the standard catalog is the scotts catalog. That one is 6 volumes at $100 each, with very little written detail. They also make on that covers US only in more detail, and one for worldwide 1840-1940 at $100 and $150 -Although the $150 classic is hardcover.

Most of the smaller specialized books are around $50, with a few very detailed ones over $100.

Scotts is yearly, and the others may only be refreshed once a decade or for some once in a generation. The primary reference for one of the areas I specialise in is from 1961.

Steve B

[Exhibitman]

I can speak to this issue with some background because I am working on the 8th edition to my boxing cards book right now. There is no need for a traditional publisher any more. With the right technology you can use a POD [print on demand] publisher to not only prepare the books but to also market them. You can get an ISBN number and have your work on Amazon and other marketplaces. I use Lulu.com to handle my work. I design and assemble the book in Microsoft Publisher then convert to a PDF and upload to Lulu. You can also pay Lulu to do some of the work for you. If your passion is to write it, don't let a publisher talk you out of it!

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperbac...-2012/15370683

[Volod]

Some excellent pointers there, Adam. I imagine the increased ease of publication, including for novices and hacks, is more than compensated by the elimination of screening editors, like the one who told Herman Melville to stick to his day job as a customs clerk.

[Rich Klein]

However; Adam is backing up with his post one of my points. His book, and granted it is a labor of love for him to some extent, has a price point of nearly $40 IIRC.

Rich

[Tom B.]

The following link provides a more in-depth look to the proposed book by an outside author on the aforementioned regional food issues. This provides more flavor of what the book is about and the style of writing vs. just a TOC.

Fair warning, it's a bit lengthy, but if you like these issues, you'll like the essay.

CLICK HERE

[steve B]

That looks interesting

Is is actually coming out? if it;s out, a link to where to buy it would be helpful.

Steve B