Resources on identifying nonauthentic cards

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Posted By: Ed Shapiro

Is there a comprehensive resource (book, other publication, website, etc.) to help the vintage card collector identify reprints, forgeries, nonauthentic, etc. items?

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Posted By: B C Daniels

One from "Hankron" Aaron ,on this board and one printed about 10 years ago by SCD. The SCD one is a great little white book for a novice...unfortunately,the best source is still and always will be years of "just knowing" by having handled thousands of cards many of the same card and versions of any particular card over and over again to mentally note the image in one's mind of what an authentic, untainted card would look like. All senses involved will help when keenly trained to absorb common factors of cardboard and aged paper. The mind can suspect corrections based on this type of experience which is again the best,though subjective standards we use here to debate what is real and what is altered. Our common ground and best free offering to each other is the honing of which sense we best perfected in some area of card grading and comparing it to the best sense used and perfected by our fellow collctor. One guy is good at observing trim work,another corner restoration.if we share we all learn and if we share what we recall of provenance we all win when concerned about a piece of history we share affection for.

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Posted By: runscott

it might become a classic!

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Posted By: BcD

I'm drinking a few St.Pauli Girls right now!

Delicious. They rock. T-Bob's Cobb is a wash.Increase of $100 for being certed and decrease of $100 due to red ink......he has little recourse and needs to just sell it now and chalk it up as a grading service loss we all take a few of.

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Posted By: Hankron

The most substantial way to authenticate old baseball cards and other prints (programs, premiums, posters, etc), is by microscopic examination of the printing. The types of printing used 80 or 100 years ago was different than in modern times, and the difference is identified under a microscope. This type of examination is essential when one has never handled or even seen the item before. One may have handled a thousand T206s and M116s and know an fake T206 or M116 on site. But if you rely on your personal hands on experience alone you will neccesarily come across items that you not handled before and who's authenticity and even age will stump you-- unless you only buy the same issues over and over.

Alas, almost no one in the baseball card hobby is willing to buy a $10 microscope and learn how to use it. A fatal flaw of this and other hobbies, I think, and one that extends to many of the big auction houses and even graders.

A substantial recourse on authentication of prints is:
http://www.cycleback.com/printsexamination/index.html

The site deals with fine art and collectable prints as a whole and does not focus on trading cards. As such, I'm certain that there is more information that anyone here is willing to digest. However, it does show, though not by name, how to identify authentic and fake baseball cards.

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Posted By: Hankron

Offering more practical advice for 19th century cards:

1) Other than the Just So Tobacco and (I beleive, correct me if I'm wrong) N300 Mayo, no 19th century card cataloged in SCD or Beckett has a tiny dot pattern throughout the image, like on a modern Topps card or magazine picture. In an Allen & Ginter there may be a few dots as part of the design, but if there is a tiny and consistant dot pattern throughout the entire image, it's a counterfeit. If an Old Judge has such a dot pattern, it's a reprint.

2) A black light is cheap, easy to use and will quickly identify many modern reprints and fakes. See article at:
http://cycleback.com/blacklight.htm

3) Never buy online a high end old trading card, CDV or cabinet card that has obviously clipped corners that the seller describes as ‘natural corner wear.’ It’s a good bet the card is a counterfeit.

Some counterfeiters use their home computer printers to make reprints of expensive old cards. They will usually try to make the item look old, typically by staining and roughing it up. Apparently, one of the most difficult things for the home counterfeiter is to make corners that look naturally and evenly rounded as if by age. They often diagonally clip off the corners with a scissors and rough it up a bit. Despite the best attempts, the corners can remain obviously clipped.

Some genuine items do have clipped corners, but a legitimate seller won’t mistake it for natural rounding.

4) Many (not all) reprints simply don't look right, even in an online picutre. Often, comparing to a picture of an authentic form a MastroNet catalog or such will help identify a card as a reprint. Many folks on this board are Grade A references for identifying online reprints.

5) Legitimate sellers back up what they sell, and offer reasonable return terms. Life's too short to deal with eBay sellers who say "All sales are final", "I cannot authenticate."

6) Find good sellers and buy from them, especially when buying something esoteric, rare and/or expensive.

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Posted By: leon

Very good advice except maybe a couple more points. I would say that "almost" never do 19th century items have dot patterns. Remember my 1890 EJ Hoen team card? It does and it is a photoengraving, I believe. Also in my auctions on ebay I always put "no returns unless I make a material mistake." So far I don't believe I have ever had anyone unhappy with my ebaying. If you ask around I always stand behind my transactions. Just recently I sold a board member a card off line and when he got it he immediately emailed back and said he thought a side looked suspect. He asked if I would offer a refund if it did not grade. I said of course I would. It came back ok (maybe a grade low but still ok).....my point is that if someone says "no returns" don't just blow them off. BTW, I still don't even understand returns in an auction provided there are nice big scans.....it''s a friggin' (@Tbob) auction not Wally World !!.....you outbid someone and that's it...it's yours.....just my half cent worth....regards all

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Posted By: Hankron

Leon, I said 19th century cards (in joke) ... I set my 'dots' rule for cards specifically listed in SCD & Beckett, as there will be odd ball exceptions, like your card. If one applies the rule to SCD/Beckett cards (except for Mayo and Just So), there should not be a problem.

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Posted By: runscott

...I know, I'm lazy. I have to give the editors major kudos for separating the minor league issues by vintage - this made it much easier to cut up my book and make it useful (Modern Major and Minor league sections in the trash...). Up 'til now I had to constantly refer back to the "modern" section (filed away) to check on obscure vintage minor league issues, so I could discuss intelligently with Leon. But now I can actually throw the larger section in the garbage! (not that it isn't well done).

Again, this is old news to all of you, but I was also impressed with all the cdv's that were listed.