Help me understand

[Bigdaddy]

So I've been searching for a reasonably priced 1954 Red Heart Mickey Mantle to finish my Red Heart set. These two cards recently came up on Ebay and I just don't understand the grading. From the scans, the 2.5 looks much better than the 4 (I was the underbidder on the 2.5). Is this just a case of 'buy the card, not the holder' or am I missing something?

[JollyElm]

Could be some big issues on the back or perhaps there are creases or other problems on front that can't be seen in the scan?

[Bigdaddy]

The 2.5 back is on the left and the 4 back on the right

[NateMack]

The 2.5 could have some staining or water damage from the back scan. I would have gone after the 2.5 as well... Nice looking card

[JollyElm]

It may have been glued into an album? Those back stains (possibly) follow that theory.

[MattyC]

2.5 is the superior card to me.

[Leon]

I think if you held the 2.5 in your hand and tilted it you would see a few tiny issues. That being said I would much, much prefer the 2.5.

A lot of our members, and myself included, collect by the card and not so much the flip. So we tend to have some great looking cards in lower number holders. It's part of what makes collecting fun. And then there is the other side that says "wow, look at my PSA (or SGC) 8".....it's all good....

[pclpads]

On the back of the 2.5, looks like a faint side-to-side horizontal crease above the Batting Record box line and the black border line above Red Heart. With corners and centering that sharp, it has to be creased to get that grade. Given that, it still presents much better than the 4. And, I'd take it all day over the 4!

[GasHouseGang]

The scan for the PSA 2.5 isn't very clear, but there appears to be a shadow in the lower right hand corner that could be a bend. Usually a card that nice that gets down graded to a PSA 2.5 has a bend or paper wrinkle somewhere that may be very difficult to see.

[D. Bergin]

Looks like there's several surface wrinkles that don't show up very well in the 2.5.

The exact card also sold on June 20th on Ebay, and on that scan the wrinkles are completely hidden, but it looks like there may be a dig on the upper right corner.

I'd wager, in hand most people would take the "4", regardless of the centering issues with that one.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

The scan for the PSA 2.5 isn't very clear, but there appears to be a shadow in the lower right hand corner that could be a bend. Usually a card that nice that gets down graded to a PSA 2.5 has a bend or paper wrinkle somewhere that may be very difficult to see.

I agree with this. I see it too. Again, it could be a shadow, but could be a bend as well.

Also, is that paper loss on the back of the card? Almost in the center of the card between the words 'FIELD' and 'AVERAGE' appears to be a speck of paper loss. Either way, I agree that I would rather have the 2.5

[Bigdaddy]

Just strange that the defects in the 2.5 card are all hard to see in the scans, in the shadows, or only visible in person, while the dog ears on the corners of the 4 are clearly visible from any and all photos/scans/artist's renderings, etc.

I guess I need to get better educated with the grading rules.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

Just strange that the defects in the 2.5 card are all hard to see in the scans, in the shadows, or only visible in person, while the dog ears on the corners of the 4 are clearly visible from any and all photos/scans/artist's renderings, etc.

I guess I need to get better educated with the grading rules.

They are both also scanned using completely different settings. Look how much brighter and washed out the 2.5 looks. Surface image has been descreened and flattened.

Personally I'd rather have the dog ears, then surface wrinkles on a card, but I may be in the minority.

[the 'stache]

I would ask to have a second batch of pictures taken of the 2.5, but from what I can see, it's the superior card of the two.

Remember, these guys are looking at the card under magnification in the dark. There may be some flaws that are more readily apparent in optimum conditions. If they don't show up when you've got the card in your living room's display case, then who cares? I'd jump all over that every day, and twice on Sunday. Perfect opportunity to own a beautiful example of this card at a fraction of the cost. Those are the kinds of cards many of us around here love, myself included.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

There may be some flaws that are more readily apparent in optimum conditions. If they don't show up when you've got the card in your living room's display case, then who cares?

Brilliantly stated. Exactly what collecting in the grading era is all about, in my opinion.