The Toughest Hall of Famers to Acquire?

[rhettyeakley]

On an individual item where one was actually produced...Frank Sellee.

Many of the early Negro leaguers just never had anything until the collectors issues of the 1970’s, so they would technically be impossible not the toughest

[brianp-beme]

Here is what I posted on my thoughts (with narrower focus) on this last year. It is from this thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=219783&page=2


I will approach this question from a narrowed perspective, because it is within the following guidelines that I have always collected, which is based upon availability of pre-War2 cards. (20th century Pre-1942 cards, for crying out loud).

When I set my self-imposed guidelines, I eliminated all players whose careers were mostly in the 19th century, due to expense. I also eliminated almost all of the executives, broadcasters, etc. due to the lack of availability. Also due to the lack of availability I removed all of the Negro League players. What remains are 20th century HOF players whose careers were mostly before World War 2. The following are the ones I always considered tougher to track down Pre-WW2 cards due to the player being in fewer popular sets during their playing/managing careers.

Big Names:

Honus Wagner - in a decent amount of sets, but less frequently seen because of his absence in almost all the tobacco issues

Eddie Plank - not in that many sets, and incredibly tough in the most popular (T206)

Lou Gehrig - in some more commonly issued earlier 1930's sets, but still not as many as you would think based upon his status


Others:

Willie Keeler: 1910 era cards at the end of his career

Jimmy Collins: in fewer sets than Keeler

Jake Beckley: thankfully in T206 set, otherwise not much available

Elmer Flick: in fewer sets than Keeler

Hugh Duffy: at end of playing career during 1910 era

Joe Kelley: at end of playing career

George Davis: not in many sets

Joe McGinnity: at end of career in 1910

Addie Joss: untimely death in 1911

Jack Chesbro: thankfully in T206 set, otherwise not much available

Gabby Hartnett: in E120, and 1933 Goudey, otherwise surprisingly not in many of the prominent 30's issues (other Goudey, Diamond Star, Play Ball)

Ross Youngs: short career, mostly featured in strip sets

Casey Stengel: not in many of the common sets

Wilbert Robinson: surprisingly in MORE sets than expected

Stan Coveleskie: career falls in the 1917-1932 'dead zone' card era

Bill Southworth: seems to be overlooked in most sets

Charles Comiskey: executive, but featured in prominent sets like Cracker Jack and Sporting News

Branch Rickey: fortunately featured in Cracker Jacks and V100 sets

Bill McKechnie: in limited sets

Ducky Medwick: missing from early 30's sets, and most Goudey issues

Luke Appling: mostly mid to late 30's sets

Billy Herman: besides 33 Goudey, not in many sets

Fred Lindstrom: overlooked in most 30's sets

Al Lopez: not in many sets

Dizzy Dean: short career cut short his card appearances

[bigfish]

Deacon White

[ruth_rookie]

Finding a mid-grade Joe Jackson has proven to be a daunting task for me. Heck, he’s even difficult to find in low grade. Although he’s not in the Hall, he arguably should be (from a statistical standpoint anyway). But that’s opening up a whole other can of worms.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by ruth_rookie

Finding a mid-grade Joe Jackson has proven to be a daunting task for me. Heck, he’s even difficult to find in low grade. Although he’s not in the Hall, he arguably should be.

Maybe Joe Jackson will be pardoned, and then elected to the Hall.

[judsonhamlin]

Doesn't McCarthy pop up in T5 and one of the Colgans/Tin Top/Red Border sets?

[rats60]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Here is what I posted on my thoughts (with narrower focus) on this last year. It is from this thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...=219783&page=2


I will approach this question from a narrowed perspective, because it is within the following guidelines that I have always collected, which is based upon availability of pre-War2 cards. (20th century Pre-1942 cards, for crying out loud).

When I set my self-imposed guidelines, I eliminated all players whose careers were mostly in the 19th century, due to expense. I also eliminated almost all of the executives, broadcasters, etc. due to the lack of availability. Also due to the lack of availability I removed all of the Negro League players. What remains are 20th century HOF players whose careers were mostly before World War 2. The following are the ones I always considered tougher to track down Pre-WW2 cards due to the player being in fewer popular sets during their playing/managing careers.

Big Names:

Honus Wagner - in a decent amount of sets, but less frequently seen because of his absence in almost all the tobacco issues

Eddie Plank - not in that many sets, and incredibly tough in the most popular (T206)

Lou Gehrig - in some more commonly issued earlier 1930's sets, but still not as many as you would think based upon his status


Others:

Willie Keeler: 1910 era cards at the end of his career

Jimmy Collins: in fewer sets than Keeler

Jake Beckley: thankfully in T206 set, otherwise not much available

Elmer Flick: in fewer sets than Keeler

Hugh Duffy: at end of playing career during 1910 era

Joe Kelley: at end of playing career

George Davis: not in many sets

Joe McGinnity: at end of career in 1910

Addie Joss: untimely death in 1911

Jack Chesbro: thankfully in T206 set, otherwise not much available

Gabby Hartnett: in E120, and 1933 Goudey, otherwise surprisingly not in many of the prominent 30's issues (other Goudey, Diamond Star, Play Ball)

Ross Youngs: short career, mostly featured in strip sets

Casey Stengel: not in many of the common sets

Wilbert Robinson: surprisingly in MORE sets than expected

Stan Coveleskie: career falls in the 1917-1932 'dead zone' card era

Bill Southworth: seems to be overlooked in most sets

Charles Comiskey: executive, but featured in prominent sets like Cracker Jack and Sporting News

Branch Rickey: fortunately featured in Cracker Jacks and V100 sets

Bill McKechnie: in limited sets

Ducky Medwick: missing from early 30's sets, and most Goudey issues

Luke Appling: mostly mid to late 30's sets

Billy Herman: besides 33 Goudey, not in many sets

Fred Lindstrom: overlooked in most 30's sets

Al Lopez: not in many sets

Dizzy Dean: short career cut short his card appearances

To me the hardest ones were George Sisler and Harry Heilmann. They weren't in the t sets or cracker jacks and missed 33 Goudey. Also Grover Alexander even though he was in CJ, not many other sets. Also, I agree with Ducky Medwick, not in 33-34 Goudey, but in Diamond Stars and 38 Goudey.

I wouldn't call anyone in t206 or 33 Goudey or Topps or Bowman sets had to get. They may have few cards, but they are plentiful. My list doesn't include 19th century players, negro league's players who didn't get a Topps or Bowman or some nonplayer Hofers.

[drcy]

Not a Hall of Famer, but James Creighton. I know of only one card (Peck & Snyder) with how many few copies of that, plus perhaps one or two photos.

Irrelevant to any years rules, Creighton should be in the HOF.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

On an individual item where one was actually produced...Frank Sellee.

Many of the early Negro leaguers just never had anything until the collectors issues of the 1970’s, so they would technically be impossible not the toughest

.

[paul]

That's a beautiful Selee Jay.

A lot of this depends on your definition of a card. I don't count premium photos, CDV, and pins (sorry, Jay, that Selee really is fantastic).

With that in mind, here is my take on the toughies:

1. Frank Selee - his only card is the one of a kind Allegheny.

2. Al Spalding - his only card is the one of a kind G&B Spalding. It shows him as an executive. If you believe he was elected as a pioneer player, then he has only CDVs and studio cabinets, if that, and he would be excluded from my list.

3. Pete Hill - He has only the 1909 Punch (2 known) and 1910 Cabanas (1 known).

4. Jesse Burkett -- He has only the 1893 Just So (only 1 1/2 known) and the W600 (very, very tough). He also has a T204 which is arguably from his playing days because it shows him as a minor league player / manager. He also has a very rare Cameo Pepsin pin, but I don't count that as a card.

5. Hugh Jennings -- He has only the 1894 Alpha (1 known) and the 1902 W600 listing him as a player (almost as tough as the Burkett). Most people settle for one of his cards as a manager, but he was elected as a player.

6. Biz Mackey -- He is only in the Aguilitas set from Cuba. For whatever reason, this particular card in that set is extra tough.

7. Most of the other Negro League HOFers with cards from Cuba or Puerto Rico (Charleston, Lloyd, Mendez, Torriente, Day, H. Smith, W. Brown, etc.)

8. Bid McPhee -- only in the Old Judge set and for whatever reason he is particularly tough.

9. Deacon White -- only in the Old Judge and Scrapps sets. His Old Judge may be as tough as McPhee's, but the existence of his Scrapps card makes him a little easier overall than McPhee.

10. Joe McCarthy -- If you want him as a manager, he has only the 1936 WorldWide and the 1929 Blue Ribbon Malt, both of which are tough (though not in the same class as 1-9 above). If you want him as a player, his T5 Pinkerton is nearly impossible. His Colgan's Chips seems to be tough too.

Honorable Mention -- Willie Foster -- he is in the 1927 Mallorquina set from Cuba. The only known copy of his card is on an uncut sheet. If you count that as a card, he would be right up there with Selee and Spalding.

That's enough for now.

[sb1]

Burkett W600 & TTT Burkett

[sb1]

And Jennings as a player

[ValKehl]

Scott, nice cards! But, your T204 appears to be a T.T.T.

[sb1]

Ha! Good catch!

[paul]

Scott, I'm still in the market for your W600 Burkett if you ever want to let it go.

Paul

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by sb1

Burkett W600 & TTT Burkett

I believe Jesse also appears on the 1920 Koestler Bread set, holding a bunch of shag balls. I remember because I had one once.

[paul]

Yes, Burkett appears in the Koester Bread set, as a coach, long after his playing days ended.