National Chicle Set - what could have been

[TanksAndSpartans]

Just for fun, I decided to list out a Chicle set that would be even more expensive to put together than the actual one. Like any all time list, someone has to get left off, so if I excluded one of your favorite cards/players - let me know. I kept 20 cards the same (over half) and I managed to get 11 new HOFers in (a retired Grange and past his prime Hubbard might be stretches, but if my goal is to sell gum, why not include them?). For a timeframe, the back of Stan Kostka’s card was helpful as it mentions: “latest addition to the Dodgers”, “last Fall”, and makes reference to the Bears playing the college All-stars on August 29 (I’m not sure why it wasn’t the reigning champion Giants, but I vaguely recall reading this was Red Grange’s last football game, so I believe it is accurate). I wonder if all the cards were printed after August 29, or just the second series? And how long after August 29 were the cards printed? I assume they were printed before the end of the season, so Chicle wouldn’t have had a crystal ball to know the Lions would win the 35 title, but with my 20/20 hindsight, I added some extra Lions.

Note that Gridiron Greats (Vol. 10 Issue 32) in an article coauthored by board member John Spano has hypothetical artwork on 3 of the players I added and a 4th that I didn’t.

Of course this will all be a moot point once the 204 missing cards start surfacing

Feedback is welcome, here is the list:

1 “Dutch” Clark, Lions (Card erroneously says Eagles) (original)
2 “Bo” Molenda, Giants (original)
3 George Kenneally, Eagles (original)
4 “Ed” Matesic, Eagles (original)
5 Glenn Presnell, Lions (original)
6 “Ace” Gutowsky, Lions (change was Rentner)
7 “Ken” Strong, Giants (original)
8 Ed Danowski, Giants (change was Zyntell)
9 George Halas, Bears (change – HOF was Rockne; college coach replaced with pro coach)
10 Cliff Battles, Redskins (original)
11 “Turk” Edwards, Redskins (original)
12 “Ox” Emerson, Lions (change was Hupke; swap of Lions Lineman)
13 George Christensen, Lions (change was Griffith)
14 Phil Sarboe, Cardinals (original; card spells last name incorrectly)
15 Mike Michalske, Packers (change - HOF was Ciccone)
16 Arnie Herber, Packers (change - HOF was Ben Smith)
17 Tom Jones, Giants (original; nickname “Potsy” not used on front)
18 Mike Mikulak, Cardinals (original)
19 Ralph Kercheval, Dodgers (original)
20 Warren Heller, Pirates (original)
21 “Swede” Hanson, Eagles (change was Montgomery)
22 “Shipwreck” Kelley, Dodgers (original; interestingly didn’t play in 35)
23 Beattie Feathers, Bears (original)
24 Clarke Hinkle, Packers (original)
25 “Red” Badgro, Giants (change – HOF; was Burnett, swapped Giants)
26 Mel Hein, Giants (change – HOF; was Dell Isola, swapped Giants Lineman)
27 Johnny “Blood” McNally, Packers (change – HOF; Pirates in 34; was Tosi, what if Blood was most rare card?)
28 Don Hutson, Packers (change - HOF; was Kostka; rookie swap, both AA in 34)
29 Cal Hubbard, Packers (change – HOF; was MacMurdo, missed 34 season, returned in 35)
30 Ernie Caddel, Lions (original)
31 “Nic” Niccolai, Pirates (original; why not shown in Pirates uniform like others?)
32 Chester Johnston, Packers (original; would’ve been cool if shown in 34 Gunners uniform)
33 "Red" Grange, Bears (change – HOF; was Ernie Smith, retired, but active in 34)
34 Bronko Nagurski, Bears (original)
35 Bill Hewitt, Bears (change - HOF; was Johnsos, swap of Bears Receivers)
36 George Musso, Bears (change - HOF, was Masterson, Bears swap)

[tuckr1]

Love the idea of a Halas 1935 Chicle!!!! That would be awesome

Wonder if there was at least a list of the 204 missing cards?? Or even a prototype of the complete set? One would think there would be a prototype of the entire 240 cards before the started printing??right??

Great list

Also I still have not seen a box these packs came in, anyone ever seen a box or a picture of a display of these cards???

[iowadoc77]

John, I think your set would be a bit more pricey to put together but I would love to have that Grange card. My son is a huge Bears fan and would be all over Halas and Grange as well. Great thread. Very cool to think about what might have been and had there ever been the full set, what a monster it would have been. Well done.

[jefferyepayne]

Spectacular post, John! Love it. I'm gonna have to dig through your list in more detail but at first blush this is really well done.

Great idea for a post.

jeff

[Myachelydra]

Nice John!

Just imagine what it would cost to put your set together.

[Footballdude]

I've always been curious about if there was actually any physical evidence that the other 204 cards were really being considered. Is there artwork somewhere for any other players, maybe letters or notes, purchase orders, anything? Maybe something still sitting in a warehouse basement somewhere? That would be an awesome discovery I would think.
I don't own any Chicle's, but do plan on getting a few, just to say I have them.

Benny Friedman would have been a good one to "stretch" into the set. I think he retired after the 1934 season, so depending on when he announced his retirement and when the cards were prepared and issued for the next season, it is conceivable he could have been added as well. Then, his card could have been pulled from future printings, because of the retirement, thereby creating a great SP rarity.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by Footballdude

I've always been curious about if there was actually any physical evidence that the other 204 cards were really being considered. Is there artwork somewhere for any other players, maybe letters or notes, purchase orders, anything? Maybe something still sitting in a warehouse basement somewhere? That would be an awesome discovery I would think.
I don't own any Chicle's, but do plan on getting a few, just to say I have them.

Benny Friedman would have been a good one to "stretch" into the set. I think he retired after the 1934 season, so depending on when he announced his retirement and when the cards were prepared and issued for the next season, it is conceivable he could have been added as well. Then, his card could have been pulled from future printings, because of the retirement, thereby creating a great SP rarity.

I've heard rumors of additional artwork but have never seen any. I do think the Chicle set itself gives some hints as to what National Chicle may have been planning.

For instance, the back says there would be 240 cards. There were 10 teams in the NFL in 1934 and the roster's had 25-30 players on them. Unless they were planning to make cards for every single player on every roster, it is likely they were planning to include college stars. The Rockne card supports this theory.

There is one player that is on both a card and a premium - Stan Kostka. And it's the same exact image.





This might hint at their plan to put out premium photos of some of the other players in this set. Or that the individual player premiums would later be put on cards. Individual player/coach premiums in the set include: Joe Bach, Eddie Casey, George Christensen, Red Grange, and Harry Newman.

Also interesting to note that a lot of the premiums show action shots from college games. Again, a possible hint that more college stars would be included eventually.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

First, thanks so much for the positive feedback. I'm glad people enjoyed this. It was fun to do - I worked on it on and off throughout the week and I had lots of scratch outs - it was tough to settle on 36. My last changes before posting were to actually go back and put 4 or 5 of the original cards back in. I really like the set, I didn't want to change it too much.

Originally Posted by Footballdude

Benny Friedman would have been a good one to "stretch" into the set. I think he retired after the 1934 season, so depending on when he announced his retirement and when the cards were prepared and issued for the next season, it is conceivable he could have been added as well. Then, his card could have been pulled from future printings, because of the retirement, thereby creating a great SP rarity.

Nice call on this one. I agree. My last 3 cuts were Link Lyman (another HOFer who retired after 34 season), Roy "Father" Lumpkin, and Harry Newman (premium exists which I noticed after Jeff's post).

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

This might hint at their plan to put out premium photos of some of the other players in this set. Or that the individual player premiums would later be put on cards. Individual player/coach premiums in the set include: Joe Bach, Eddie Casey, George Christensen, Red Grange, and Harry Newman.

Also interesting to note that a lot of the premiums show action shots from college games. Again, a possible hint that more college stars would be included eventually.

jeff

Jeff, excellent points. I honestly wasn't thinking about the premiums when I made my list. I've seen the Grange premium before, but I was surprised to see the Christensen and Newman premiums. Those are nice to see as was the Giants premium. One of the things that has always bothered me is several card backs mention Bowl games and other specific college games, but not even Ken Strong's card back mentions the NFL championship and Strong had a pretty good game. Just reading the backs of the cards, it seems like college football was still "king". On one hand, I think Chicle wanted to do a professional player set - we've seen the letter written to the Eagles which shows commitment to getting images of pro players, but on the other hand, I think they wanted to hedge and make sure they represented the college game as well. You mentioned the Rockne card and the premiums of college games. Looking at the premium checklist, there are also a few premiums of college players, so I would say, it's not a stretch at all to assume that they would've done cards of college players had interest/funding of the project continued.

[oddball]

First of all, this was a great original post and thread! It's awesome to think about "what could have been" for this iconic set, especially if you start considering the college players who may have been included later on. It would have been cool to have Chicle cards of TCU Sophomore (Freshman year) Quarter back Sammy Baugh and Alabama All-American End Paul "Bear" Bryant! Great stuff!

[jefferyepayne]

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Jeff. Appreciate your adding some visuals to this thread - those both would've made pretty cool cards. I would've liked a Chicle with a brick wall background - some of the Bowmans have one.

[iowadoc77]

Would be neat to turn some of the guys who do custom cards loose on this and see what they could design. It would have to be someone who is very familiar with vintage football, but would be nest to see what they come up with using images of some of the "new" additions to the set

[davemri]

http://imageevent.com/davemri/chiclereprints

[tuckr1]

That is very nice!!!

Originally Posted by davemri

http://imageevent.com/davemri/chiclereprints

[TanksAndSpartans]

Nice cards! Thanks Dave. Can you talk a bit about this set? Who is "Sporting Life"? How did you find this?

Not sure if you made the connection, but its the same John W. you sold cards to from your HOF rookie set, advised on my Nagurski purchase, etc. It's a small world!

[davemri]

Hey John!....

These cards are "homemade" from a guy that lives in Michigan. I own 3-4 of them along with the display piece in the last picture. He sells them on ebay under the username sport_kings1. Most of his cards are baseball but he created an entire fantasy chicle set. He actually gets good money for them considering they are just fantasy pieces. He currently has a FIelding Yost and Bennie Oosterbaan listed.

Dave

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Dave. Wow, I really would've believed they were issued by a small company. Heck, I like them better than what Topps and Upper Deck did in 2009. The backgrounds especially are true to the originals, but also have some originality. Thanks for sharing those.

And I almost can't believe the coincidence of this headline: PSA Plans "Cards That Never Were" Diamond Stars of Ruth, Gehrig, Feller and DiMaggio at 2014 "National". Granted, its baseball, but its still National Chicle and also right around the time period of two different threads on the board. Here is the link:

http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...-2014-national