How many cards in the T206 set?

[t206hound]

Within the "Lucky 7" thread, it was asserted that the Ty Cobb Portrait Red Background with the Ty Cobb back is the 525th card of the T206 set. It was further asserted that the Ty Cobb Portrait Red Background was the fifth Ty Cobb card in the T206 set.

Looking for the board's opinion on this subject.

[ullmandds]

With all due respect to Ted... I believe the Cobb Cobb card has been accurately recognized as a totally separate issue one unto itself. If one were to categorize any white bordered tobacco card with brown type such as T215 type one and T2 13 type one as t206... Then I could see categorizing this cobb as a T206... But I would consider it a back variation as the red front is identical to the others .

[Eric72]

I voted 524, for now. The Ty Cobb back is just a different back to me.

[Mdmtx]

Isn't this like debating the top end speed of a Ferrari? Or the upkeep of a horse worthy of the Kentucky derby? I doubt the vast majority of the people here will ever be in the earnest hunt for a Cobb/Cobb. I know I won't, unless I hit powerball ...

[RCMcKenzie]

Because I am a back collector, I believe you would need to have all the cards that comprise the T206 set, in other words, the number in excess of 6000 cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If it's a T206 in the first place, and I have no problem with that, then it's just another back, however rare. 524.

[pokerplyr80]

I understand the debate over whether or not it's really a t206. I don't get the debate over it being the 525th card if no other back counts as it's own card.

[tiger8mush]

You might need a 3rd option (593 cards) in the poll ...

Originally Posted by tedzan

Don't insult my intelligence !

I fully understand what they were driving at.

I stated that I consider this Cobb card the 525th card in the T206 set. Notice, I have emphasized the word CARD; and, not subject.

Furthermore, I consider that the 68 cards in the 1910 COUPON series should be included in the T206 set. Which now brings the total
to 593 cards comprising a complete T206 set....which consists of 17 basic Tobacco brands.

And, this is my opinion, of which I am entitled to have and to speak of (having collected T206's for 36 years).


Obviously, you (and some others) disagree; and, that is your prerogative.


TED Z
.

[buymycards]

I agree with Ted that there is a good possibility that T213-1's should be considered T206's, but the 68 cards in T213-1 would not be added to the current 524 card set. The captions and poses are mostly (all?) similar to other back brands, so the number would stay at 524. The 213-1 Beals Becker would not be any different than a T206 Becker with a Piedmont or SC back, so the number would stay at 524.

[Jobu]

Isn't the Ty Cobb with the Cobb back a glossy card (save for one: http://www.t206museum.com/page/cardweek_5.html)? It might be that Ted is arguing the the standard, no-gloss portrait is in the 524 and the glossy portrait is 525 because of the gloss and not because of the back.

[CW]

I tend to agree with Jesse, among others. Is this card intended to be part of T206? If the answer is yes, then (at best) this card is another red portrait Cobb with a tough back. I thought that was a given, but apparently not?

Considering the fact that no other subjects exist with the Ty Cobb back, I agree with those that consider this a separately issued (likely regional to the GA area) premium that was inserted into a short-lived Ty Cobb tobacco product, tin or otherwise.

Here's the thing... this "set" we all refer to as T206 was never intended to be issued as a set by the manufacturers. Burdick was the one that grouped these advertising cards into a baseball card set. He could have just as easily chosen to separate each advertising back into its own "set" and could've given them names like T206-SC, or T206-P, or T206-D (for Drum), and that's how we'd collect them today.

My point being that it doesn't really matter if the Ty Cobb with Ty Cobb back should be considered part of the T206 set. The fact remains that it wasn't included in the set by the guy who wrote the book and basically invented the concept of the T206 set as we collect it today.

I agree with what Ted said himself back in '09...

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Ted ZanidakisSo, my guess is that the Ty Cobb back card stands alone as an advertising premium for the
Ty Cobb pipe tobacco. And, that it was privately distributed in limited quantities in late 1910
or early 1911, concurrent with the T206 Red portrait Ty Cobb card. Which was issued during
this period with 24 different T-backs (more than any other T206 Subject).

The Ty Cobb/Ty Cobb card would then be the 25th back on Cobb's Red portrait cards. Having
said that; though, I am not inferring that this card is part of the T206 set.



TED Z

[Thromdog]

Cobb red is a Cobb red

[iwantitiwinit]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I understand the debate over whether or not it's really a t206. I don't get the debate over it being the 525th card if no other back counts as it's own card.

Correct.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I don't count the Cobb as a T206

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[tedzan]

Let's see now, the question here is...."How many cards in the T206 set ? ?".


The answer to this question depends on who you ask. Some say 6000, and others say as much as 7000......when you consider all the front / back permutations.

The most accurate number actually is between 5200 - 5300 permutations. There are a fair number of "No-Prints" in the T-brand's population. Currently, David
Hall is 95 % complete in his quest to achieve a "master" T206 set. This % number translates to just short of 5000 cards in his current T206 collection.


Yes.....I favor including the 1910 COUPON set (68 cards) and the Ty Cobb Tobacco card in the T206 set. And, there are some on this forum that agree with this.
The timeline of both these issues falls within the 1909-1911 timeline of the T206 set. Furthermore, the fronts of these 69 cards are identical to the T206's.
So, if they waddle like a duck, and quack like a duck, and were issued during 1910....then, they are a "T206".

If you check-out Burdick's records, he includes the T213-1 cards in same timeframe as the T213-2 and T213-3 (1914-1919). Obviously, at the time he did this,
he did not have the information we now have that correctly dates the 1910 COUPON cards. So, no need to fault him on this mistake.


Finally, this "poll" proves nothing. It's an insidious attempt to "bust my chops" by a couple of members on this forum. I guess this is how they get their "jollies"


TED Z
.

[Bruinsfan94]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Let's see now, the question here is...."How many cards in the T206 set ? ?".


The answer to this question depends on who you ask. Some say 6000, and others say as much as 7000......when you consider all the front / back permutations.

The most accurate number actually is between 5200 - 5300 permutations. There are a fair number of "No-Prints" in the T-brand's population. Currently, David
Hall is 95 % complete in his quest to achieve a "master" T206 set. This % number translates to just short of 5000 cards in his current T206 collection.


Yes.....I favor including the 1910 COUPON set (68 cards) and the Ty Cobb Tobacco card in the T206 set. And, there are some on this forum that agree with this.
The timeline of both these issues falls within the 1909-1911 timeline of the T206 set. Furthermore, the fronts of these 69 cards are identical to the T206's.
So, if they waddle like a duck, and quack like a duck, and were issued during 1910....then, they are a "T206".

If you check-out Burdick's records, he includes the T213-1 cards in same timeframe as the T213-2 and T213-3 (1914-1919). Obviously, at the time he did this,
he did not have the information we now have that correctly dates the 1910 COUPON cards. So, no need to fault him on this mistake.


Finally, this "poll" proves nothing. It's an insidious attempt to "bust my chops" by a couple of members on this forum. I guess this is how they get their "jollies"


TED Z
.

I don't even understand this argument. You either count using backs or fronts. Either way is fine and is up to the collector since it was never intended to be like a topps or play ball or goudey set. What is different about Cobb with cobb back then Cobb with other backs? Why would the coupon cards count as different t206 cards (adding to the 524 number) and not just add to the 5000-5200 number? Just because of the gloss? If that is the case then American Beauty cards have to be added to the 524 number because they are slightly different right? Doesn't really make sense for the 525 number to exist.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There seem to be two distinct questions. One, is the card a T206, and two, should it be considered a separate card for purposes of counting a complete set.

I understand the argument for calling it a T206, but I don't understand the argument for considering it the 525th card, given that the conventional completion number is based on fronts, not backs.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There seem to be two distinct questions. One, is the card a T206, and two, should it be considered a separate card for purposes of counting a complete set.

I understand the argument for calling it a T206, but I don't understand the argument for considering it the 525th card, given that the conventional completion number is based on fronts, not backs.

So then the question is . Is there this exact front already in the set ?

[tedzan]

Hi Peter

I just wanted to be "cute" (or perhaps clever) when I said that.

It's a shame that some here have chosen to make a "federal case" of it.


T-Rex TED
.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hi Peter

I just wanted to be "cute" (or perhaps clever) when I said that.

It's a shame that some here have chosen to make a "federal case" of it.


T-Rex TED
.

I see. Well, if your point then is that it should be considered a T206, I understand both sides but I think it's a valid argument.

[steve B]

I went with 524 since the choice was tied to the cobb card.

But there's 525, maybe 526.
Conroy plain hat/striped hat
Tinker Cubs on shirt/Cubs and Chicago on shirt.

There's probably more too.

[JoeKerr]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There seem to be two distinct questions. One, is the card a T206, and two, should it be considered a separate card for purposes of counting a complete set.

I understand the argument for calling it a T206, but I don't understand the argument for considering it the 525th card, given that the conventional completion number is based on fronts, not backs.

T206 "White boarder". Does it have a white boarder?

[tedzan]

Hey Steve B.

Following up from your post....I'll go in the opposite direction....there really are only 522 T206's.


With respect to their artwork, the MAGIE and JOE DOYLE NAT'L cards are identical to their corrected counterparts. Just some minor typo modifications in their captions.

Just something to ponder



.


T-Rex TED
.

[icollectDCsports]

As with most of life's big questions, the definitive answer is provided by a Youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6rHeD5x2tI

[rats60]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Hey Steve B.

Following up from your post....I'll go in the opposite direction....there really are only 522 T206's.


With respect to their artwork, the MAGIE and JOE DOYLE NAT'L cards are identical to their corrected counterparts. Just some minor typo modifications in their captions.

Just something to ponder



.


T-Rex TED
.

I think this is a better argument than 525. I can also see arguments for 518, 520, 521 and 523. Unlike say any Topps/Bowman set where 1 of each number comprise a set, many of the same reasons for a card being an excluded from a Topps/Bowman set can be ignored for t206 since it has no numbering. What makes t206 great is you can collect it however you like.