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  #1  
Old 01-16-2016, 10:48 AM
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aljurgela aljurgela is offline
Al Jurgela
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Default Monte Cudine

All, a few months ago I mentioned that I was going to try and get SGC to grade the Monte Cudine cards, but I have been unable to do so. Does anyone know where I can find a checklist and some third party information that show them that these are indeed legit. I was a bit surprised not to find them in the book "Dificil eran las de antes" from Argentina. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 01-17-2016, 06:07 AM
wake.up.the.echoes wake.up.the.echoes is offline
Alan Zimmerman
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Al, weren't these issued in poster form and then cut out? Unless I am thinking of a completely different set. They are small and round, right? Anyway, that's the only information I can recall about them. I'm probably thinking of a different set, and if so, carry on, lol. Alan
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  #3  
Old 01-17-2016, 01:23 PM
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Thats a tough set to find information about. There are many variations too, to make that even more complicated.
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2016, 07:59 PM
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Default This is the set that I am referring to....

what do you think?
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File Type: jpg Monte Cudine general.jpg (11.7 KB, 160 views)
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  #5  
Old 01-21-2016, 01:48 PM
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Hi Al,

I was looking at the company and noticed that it is located in Uruguay. Maybe there is more info on these in some periodical from there rather than Argentina. I haven't seen much when researching them over the years. I have seen posters of Monte Cudine with discs but they do not have the same markings as the cut out discs, so I am not sure whether they are all from the same media. Also, the stamps on back make me think that they were issued from the company, but who knows? I will keep looking and let you know if I see anything.

Bill
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Last edited by Spartan833; 01-21-2016 at 01:49 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #6  
Old 01-21-2016, 06:33 PM
esehombre esehombre is offline
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Default Monte Cudine's

Not sure if this will help your cause or not but I have bought several of these from a friend in Argentina. Monte Cudine is an alcoholic drink that started in the 30's and was distributed for decades in Argentina (I cant speak to Uruguay). From what i understand, these "pogs" were issued under the lids of the bottles in order to increase sales just kind of as a gimmick. Also, as Alan mentioned earlier (Hi Alan) I have never heard of these being distributed in poster form and cut out (These are made of fairly heavy cardboard and there are no punch marks to be found). Unfortunately, I can't expound much more than that but I do have an advertisement that was sent to me so once i locate it I will scan it in here.

Last edited by esehombre; 01-21-2016 at 07:27 PM.
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  #7  
Old 01-21-2016, 07:23 PM
esehombre esehombre is offline
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Default Monte Cudine Ad

Monte Cudine Ad1.jpg
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File Type: jpg Monte Cudine Ad (back)1.jpg (78.8 KB, 146 views)
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  #8  
Old 01-22-2016, 04:05 PM
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Very cool information, thanks Noel!
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  #9  
Old 01-23-2016, 03:07 PM
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Default Thanks Noel...

This should be helpful. I doubt that it will go all the way for SGC, but I will try and continue to do some research in both Argentina and Uruguay!

Al
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Looking for:
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50 Hage's Dairy (Minoso)
All Oscar Charleston Cards
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  #10  
Old 01-23-2016, 06:52 PM
esehombre esehombre is offline
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Default SGC and Monte Cudine

No problem Al and best of luck to you--tell SGC to get their best grader on it. And if it smells like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck then perhaps it may very well be one! And finally, if they cannot authenticate and validate then who would they recommend?
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  #11  
Old 01-23-2016, 08:02 PM
rayj rayj is offline
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Default Monte Cudine

Hi Guys: Fairly new to the site. Think that I posted a reply back in 2015.
In any event, I do collect football/soccer cards & stickers quite extensively.
I have enjoyed looking at your postings and images.


All this Monte Cudine information and talk is very interesting, and is certainly of interest to me. I have some DiStefano disc's myself, and to be honest, there is some reluctance on my part, to past on the information that I have obtained on the Monte Cudines.


What I am about to tell you begs the asking of more questions and speculation into what the truth might be. When I first received my copy of "Dificiles Erandes De Antes ", the Argentina
book about their cards/stickers, I didn't understand why the 1940's Monte Cudine disc's were not included in the book. So, I e-mailed the co-authors
of the book, Rafael Bitran and Francisco Chiappini, asking why this was the case. Only the one gentleman, Raphael Bitran replied to my e-mail.


I was advised by Mr. Bitran that they did not include the Monte Cudine disc's
in their book because they were aware of laboratory analysis results of the cardboard of the Monte Cudine disc's that proved that the paperboard used was not earlier than the 1970's. Also, that the old images used for the players was taken from Monte Cudine advertisements in the magazine " El Grafico " during the 1940's and 1950's. He indicated to me, that he felt that there was no doubt in their mind, that these disc's were not made in the 1940's.

Your head may be reeling after reading this, as mine was. I still have my
DiStefano disc's and continue to enjoy them. I will never try to grade them, as they can not be authenticated or truly proven. I'm sure sellers will continue to refer to the disc's as 1944-1947. I would like to believe that this is true,but now, I just don't know.

best regards, ray.
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2016, 11:53 AM
esehombre esehombre is offline
Noel
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Default Monte Cudines

Wow--thanks so much for chiming in Ray. What an insight and great work on your behalf. I understand your reluctance to post this but I applaud your integrity.
And you are absolutely correct that this does open up so many more questions than it answers. The ads from the 40's and 50's obviously portray Monte Cudine alcohol along with the pictures of players, etc. Can anyone testify with 100% certainty that they were inserted into the bottles? And why would you advertise the discs and NOT include them with the product? Seems to me it was the primary reason for including them with the advertisements! When were the tests conducted and why? Who conducted them? For what purpose? Is it possible there were discs issued from the 40's and 50's and then "reprints" from the 70's. Were these tests conducted independently and how can you obtain the results.
It certainly warrants more research but it will be tough to get straightforward answers especially if these studies have some validity.
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  #13  
Old 01-24-2016, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayj View Post
Hi Guys: Fairly new to the site. Think that I posted a reply back in 2015.
In any event, I do collect football/soccer cards & stickers quite extensively.
I have enjoyed looking at your postings and images.


All this Monte Cudine information and talk is very interesting, and is certainly of interest to me. I have some DiStefano disc's myself, and to be honest, there is some reluctance on my part, to past on the information that I have obtained on the Monte Cudines.


What I am about to tell you begs the asking of more questions and speculation into what the truth might be. When I first received my copy of "Dificiles Erandes De Antes ", the Argentina
book about their cards/stickers, I didn't understand why the 1940's Monte Cudine disc's were not included in the book. So, I e-mailed the co-authors
of the book, Rafael Bitran and Francisco Chiappini, asking why this was the case. Only the one gentleman, Raphael Bitran replied to my e-mail.


I was advised by Mr. Bitran that they did not include the Monte Cudine disc's
in their book because they were aware of laboratory analysis results of the cardboard of the Monte Cudine disc's that proved that the paperboard used was not earlier than the 1970's. Also, that the old images used for the players was taken from Monte Cudine advertisements in the magazine " El Grafico " during the 1940's and 1950's. He indicated to me, that he felt that there was no doubt in their mind, that these disc's were not made in the 1940's.

Your head may be reeling after reading this, as mine was. I still have my
DiStefano disc's and continue to enjoy them. I will never try to grade them, as they can not be authenticated or truly proven. I'm sure sellers will continue to refer to the disc's as 1944-1947. I would like to believe that this is true,but now, I just don't know.

best regards, ray.
Thanks Ray... just like Noel says, this makes things quite interesting.... will need to continue to look into this - especially due to the points that Noel points out... why advertise the product, but not follow through....

Despite all this information, does anybody have a complete checklist? Thanks.
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Al Jurgela
Looking for:
1910 Punch (Plank)
50 Hage's Dairy (Minoso)
All Oscar Charleston Cards
Rare Soccer cards
Rare Boxing cards
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  #14  
Old 01-25-2016, 06:05 PM
wake.up.the.echoes wake.up.the.echoes is offline
Alan Zimmerman
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Hey guys (especially Noel),
What RayJ said echoes what I have heard re: the monte cudine cards, and I think that is what I was alluding to in my earlier post but I just couldn't say it right. Thanks RayJ for the education. I appreciate the time you took to post on the subject and in my mind these cards are still pretty cool. If you look on mercado libre and some of the other foreign auction sites, you can find pictures of the advertisements and pictures of the discs in huge piles of a hundred or more. It always seemed odd to me that cards supposedly from the 40s and 50s and produced in such a humid climate existed in such quantities but given what we have just learned, it makes sense now. Anyway, for me it doesn't take away from the cards except that they aren't "rookies" anymore.
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  #15  
Old 05-09-2017, 10:45 AM
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samosa4u samosa4u is offline
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PSA is starting to encapsulate these discs now. They are being labelled as a 1946 issue. I know that PSA is really tough when it comes to grading new collectibles. A lot of them get rejected due to lack of documentation which PSA requires. Now since these discs are being encapsulated, someone out there must have some important information that we are not aware of.

RayJ's post is interesting. The thing I have noticed is that there are variations in this set. Please see the attached images below:
One has a black ring on the front and black lettering on the reverse. The other variation is missing the black ring and has green lettering instead. Also, you will notice that there is a red patch on the left side of his shirt. Maybe one is a reprint while the other is authentic? So far, I have seen 3 PSA graded examples on eBay and all of them were the 'black ring' variation.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Monte_Cudine_Disc_Stefano_2.jpg (71.9 KB, 82 views)
File Type: jpg Monte_Cudine_Disc_Stefano.jpg (62.1 KB, 80 views)

Last edited by samosa4u; 05-09-2017 at 10:49 AM.
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  #16  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:05 AM
thelimey thelimey is offline
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Default Any new information?

I wasn't sure whether or not to start a new thread or bump the original with the pertinent information, sorry if bumping isn't the right method.

Has any further information been discovered about the discs? I was pretty shocked to read in this thread that the card itself may date to the 70s yet since then PSA have started grading them. It would be interesting to know if further information has come to light or if they did it based off of the original information but are unaware of / dismissed the card dating theory.
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  #17  
Old 07-05-2019, 09:29 AM
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Id be surprised if they were issued after the 50s because of the print issues.
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