Justifying a Big Purchase

[theshowandme]

Hey folks,

Could use some words of encouragement. I’m staring at a scarce pre-war card that has blown me away.

It’s not cheap (for me at least). It would be the biggest card purchase of my life but I can pay for it in cash today. It doesn’t impact my ability to pay for any current or future bills.

That said, I am still hesitant for some reason and I am not sure why. When I’m buying to later sell, I can justify it much more easily. This one is going to be a very long hold.

What do you tell yourself in moments like this? How do you handle the mental gymnastics?

Any help is appreciated!

-Don


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[docpatlv]

The way I see it, you only live once. As long as you can afford it and aren’t overextending yourself, I say go for it. Of course, this philosophy has also resulted in me redoing the master bedroom and bathroom for my wife😳.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by theshowandme

Hey folks,

Could use some words of encouragement. I’m staring at a scarce pre-war card that has blown me away.

It’s not cheap (for me at least). It would be the biggest card purchase of my life but I can pay for it in cash today. It doesn’t impact my ability to pay for any current or future bills.

That said, I am still hesitant for some reason and I am not sure why. When I’m buying to later sell, I can justify it much more easily. This one is going to be a very long hold.

What do you tell yourself in moments like this? How do you handle the mental gymnastics?

Any help is appreciated!

-Don


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would not do it unless it's absolutely the RIGHT CARD at a CONSIDERABLE DISCOUNT to it's Real True Value that you can pay for in CASH in PERSON IN OTHER WORDS NOT ON A AUCTION HOUSE OR RETAIL PLATFORM

You Said your hesitant for some reason and are not sure why....all I can say is TRUST YOUR GUT.

[Leon]

Go for it. So far, I haven't regretted a few purchases like that. Worst case, if you buy at an ok price, you can sell it if you have to. It's not like you are wasting your money.
.

[packs]

I have a couple of rules for when I make big purchases myself. Maybe this will help you.

I'll only spend what I consider to be a lot of money if I feel as though the card I'm buying is easily resold at a later date should I need the money back. That rules out most esoteric cards but it also means I generally see a pretty good return on what I buy (largely spending big on Cobbs and Ruths, for example. Easily sold later and usually for more than I paid).

[Rad_Hazard]

I would say that since you are putting this much thought into it and posting here asking, go for it.

There have been a few rarities I've missed on by waffling over the purchase despite having the cash on hand and ready. I don't regret missing them since something else has always come up to make me quickly forget, but there are a few pieces in my collection that I will have for a very long time that I don't regret paying for, and would be disappointed if I didn't own.

[x2drich2000]

I would guess you're naturally a saver when it comes to finances. There's nothing wrong with that. Your hesitation is really just your body's reaction to saying this doesn't feel right. So I would start by asking yourself why am I hesitant about this? Would spending the money make you feel less secure? Does it feel wasteful? Greedy? Would you be resentful of the card? There is a lot of introspective stuff that only you can answer. Having a good friend/spouse that you can bounce your feelings off of without being judged or telling you what to do/not do is a great thing in these situations.

For me, it really depends on what is going on at the time. I always pay cash so if I don't have enough, I don't get it. That includes making sure I have enough set aside that if something else I want more comes up I can still get that as well. Other things I consider is how easily I could recoup my money if I end up not wanting it down the road and what are the chances I'll see the card for sale again. I can also say that the more I've spent on a card the easier it has been to spend that same amount again, but I always have that same hesitation when I spend more than I have before.

[Snapolit1]

What is the real downside: if for some reason perhaps you have to sell it in the next few years for reasons unknown currently, maybe you consign to an auction and lose a few percents of what you paid?

Since you have no plans to sell, I say go for it. Doubt very much you will regret it.

Most of my regrets past 7-8 years have been what I DIDN'T buy.

[ClementeFanOh]

Hi Don- first, I admire your willingness to ask the question. If I read you correctly, you are sound financially and wish to buy the card in question perhaps as a bucket list item, or a sentimental favorite that happily is valuable as well. There are folks on net54 who consistently default to a resell value mentality that is clearly their prime mover. You aren’t one of them. Steve Nap makes a great point about regrets frequently coming because you don’t buy, rather than when you do. You sound squared away to me. Buy and enjoy! Heck, if you are willing to share in the future, I’d like to know what it is Trent King

[rand1com]

I would buy it if it is a card you really want and you can afford.

The downside is very small as others have mentioned if you ever need to cash it out for an emergency expense.

[raulus]

I would use a slightly different analysis.

Let's assume that you can't ever sell it. Either because no one wants to buy it, or because no one wants to pay more than $1 for it. And if you're planning to keep it for the rest of your life, then this seems like it's really going to happen anyway, since only your heirs will care about whether it's worth anything.

Based on that assumption, would you get sufficient enjoyment just by having it in your collection for the next few decades (or longer) that it makes your purchase worth it? If so, then it seems like you have your answer.

Typically when I'm paying a gigantic pile of cash for a piece of cardboard, it's because I've been questing for it for a long, long time, and there's a big hole in my collection where it belongs. And another one might not come along again for decades. So I take a deep breath, remind myself how important the piece is to my collection, and pull the trigger.

Great personal example is my recent pickup of a 1959 Bazooka Mays Complete Box. Thread here: https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=332462

For me, part of the current calculus is that I've been keeping my powder dry for pieces that are truly that rare. I curtailed my purchases for pretty much all of last year, and focused on paying off the house. Now that I've invested heavily in other areas, I have a lot more flexibility to spend on my collection.

A key element for me is whether the piece is really that rare and difficult to find. Stuff that comes onto the market every few weeks or months? I can buy that stuff next year or next decade when the market has calmed down to what I feel is the right price. If I blow all of my cash today on pieces that I can get any time, then I won't be ready for the stuff that I really want. Stuff that's impossible to find? That's why I've been saving my pennies, so that I'm ready to pounce when those items come onto the market.

In terms of the financial future, I've posted my darkest fears here enough that I don't need to repeat them in great detail again. But an assumption that you can re-sell any time you want and only experience a small loss seems to be overlooking the very real possibility that the current market could tank hard. Particularly given the run up in prices over the last 2 years, with prices in just about every category rising 500% to 1000%, it seems folly to suggest that the market couldn't drop by 30-50% or more. But I seem to be in the minority in holding that opinion. Bottom line for me is I wouldn't base my decision around the expectation that you'll be able to resell it without taking a painful financial hit.

[fkm_bky]

Agree with most on here...you're likely going to regret not getting it in the future, especially since you're not over extending yourself financially.

There are several cards I wish I would have jumped on at the time (in the past and recent) that I know I won't really have a shot at again, and it still bothers me .

Best of luck with your decision!

Bill

[riggs336]

Buy it. If, having bought it, you are incapacitated by remorse, then sell it. All your questions will have been answered.

[hcv123]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

I would guess you're naturally a saver when it comes to finances. There's nothing wrong with that. Your hesitation is really just your body's reaction to saying this doesn't feel right. So I would start by asking yourself why am I hesitant about this? Would spending the money make you feel less secure? Does it feel wasteful? Greedy? Would you be resentful of the card? There is a lot of introspective stuff that only you can answer. Having a good friend/spouse that you can bounce your feelings off of without being judged or telling you what to do/not do is a great thing in these situations.

For me, it really depends on what is going on at the time. I always pay cash so if I don't have enough, I don't get it. That includes making sure I have enough set aside that if something else I want more comes up I can still get that as well. Other things I consider is how easily I could recoup my money if I end up not wanting it down the road and what are the chances I'll see the card for sale again. I can also say that the more I've spent on a card the easier it has been to spend that same amount again, but I always have that same hesitation when I spend more than I have before.

Originally Posted by raulus

I would use a slightly different analysis.

Let's assume that you can't ever sell it. Either because no one wants to buy it, or because no one wants to pay more than $1 for it. And if you're planning to keep it for the rest of your life, then this seems like it's really going to happen anyway, since only your heirs will care about whether it's worth anything.

Based on that assumption, would you get sufficient enjoyment just by having it in your collection for the next few decades (or longer) that it makes your purchase worth it? If so, then it seems like you have your answer.

Typically when I'm paying a gigantic pile of cash for a piece of cardboard, it's because I've been questing for it for a long, long time, and there's a big hole in my collection where it belongs. And another one might not come along again for decades. So I take a deep breath, remind myself how important the piece is to my collection, and pull the trigger.

Great personal example is my recent pickup of a 1959 Bazooka Mays Complete Box. Thread here: https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=332462

For me, part of the current calculus is that I've been keeping my powder dry for pieces that are truly that rare. I curtailed my purchases for pretty much all of last year, and focused on paying off the house. Now that I've invested heavily in other areas, I have a lot more flexibility to spend on my collection.

A key element for me is whether the piece is really that rare and difficult to find. Stuff that comes onto the market every few weeks or months? I can buy that stuff next year or next decade when the market has calmed down to what I feel is the right price. If I blow all of my cash today on pieces that I can get any time, then I won't be ready for the stuff that I really want. Stuff that's impossible to find? That's why I've been saving my pennies, so that I'm ready to pounce when those items come onto the market.

In terms of the financial future, I've posted my darkest fears here enough that I don't need to repeat them in great detail again. But an assumption that you can re-sell any time you want and only experience a small loss seems to be overlooking the very real possibility that the current market could tank hard. Particularly given the run up in prices over the last 2 years, with prices in just about every category rising 500% to 1000%, it seems folly to suggest that the market couldn't drop by 30-50% or more. But I seem to be in the minority in holding that opinion. Bottom line for me is I wouldn't base my decision around the expectation that you'll be able to resell it without taking a painful financial hit.

I think both of the above offer incredible thought-provoking responses to your question. The only thing I would add is in the financial side of the equation - If the card is of a "blue chip" player like Ruth or Cobb, I would consider the card highly liquid, resistant to downside risk and easily sold if need be. If the card is so expensive because it is a really obscure "common player" I would share concern as to possible price volatility.

[ValKehl]

I echo all of the great advice already posted. I would add that if you are married, I believe it would be wise to obtain your wife's blessing.

I know that I am overly cautious and conservative when it comes to spending what to me are larger sums of money, perhaps because my parents never had much and we lived very frugally (my dad was wiped out during the 1930's depression, and I don't think he ever recovered mentally). Hence, much to my regret, I have passed on several WaJo cards over the last 25 years that I wish I had in my WaJo collection today.

[bnorth]

This is what I do. If I have to try and justify a purchase it is time to turn around and run away.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

I echo all of the great advice already posted. I would add that if you are married, I believe it would be wise to obtain your wife's blessing.
.

Wise words here.

Due to just such a previous purchase, I now have some limits in place.

Under $1k, no limits.
$1k to $10k - wifely notification required, but after purchase is fine
Over $10k - wifely approval required prior to purchase

And in my case, she views any single purchase or payment in the aggregate. So just because I buy 30 pieces at auction doesn’t mean that I get to skirt the rules by dividing the total purchase by 30!

Edited to add: I did negotiate one exception. If I sell a piece first, then I can reinvest the proceeds with reckless disregard to any approval or notification requirements.

[Andrew1975]

Some great responses above... I will only add that in my experience collecting prewar cards over the last two decades or so, my main regrets are passing on some cards that I now wish I had purchased. Particularly, a few that are very difficult to find.

[Smarti5051]

I prefer to think about it in investment terms. There is no question a sportscard is an "alternative investment." For investing, even if you are doing so responsibly with a mix of bonds, stocks and real estate, it is not considered unwise to have a small percentage of your portfolio in alternative investments like art, collectables, cryptocurrency, etc. for diversification. Of course, if 90% of your life savings and retirement is in shiny cards of current minor league ballplayers (or even rare vintage cards), you might want to rethink your portfolio holdings.

Will all of these investments go up in value? Of course not. But, historically, several have increased in value over time. On the flip side, a 40% loss on a Mickey Mantle rookie stings, but is not substantially MORE likely than a 40% drop in the stock market. And, in both cases, the market has recovered as time passes.

To me, vintage sportscards are like pieces of art. Plenty of financially savvy investors have a portion of their portfolio in fine art. The advise of art investors is to do your research, find something that speaks to you, and buy at a fair price. Let the market do what it is going to do while you enjoy your art.

The wife caveat is a big one. I look to mine to slow my impulse buys (but she always encourages the purchase). But, if your wife is concerned about your finances and would be more nervous or upset if you had more money tied up in your art, then there is no way you are going to enjoy it as much as you are going to not enjoy an upset and/or worried wife.

[todeen]

Is it your main wheelhouse of collecting? Maybe you're hesitant because it's not what you normally buy?

I have bought a few cards outsideof my normal habits (I prefer memorabilia) over the last 18 months that I turned around and sold to purchase my main interest. One memorabilia item got shipped this morning and it's a doozy!

If it's truly going to be a main PC item, go for it. The more expensive items I own are the ones I still think "I can't believe I own that."

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by bnorth

This is what I do. If I have to try and justify a purchase it is time to turn around and run away.

ben lol

[notfast]

My thought process is if you can afford it but you are still hesitant, don’t pull the trigger.

Maybe that’s overly simple but it works for me.

[Touch'EmAll]

A good opportunity to sell something else to help pay for a dream card. Whittling down or consolidating your collection is a-ok. Easier to justify if you help by selling a lesser card.

[parkplace33]

Only you can make the decision. But if you are having doubts, maybe right down the pros and cons and go from there.

[Jstottlemire1]

Originally Posted by Andrew1975

Some great responses above... I will only add that in my experience collecting prewar cards over the last two decades or so, my main regrets are passing on some cards that I now wish I had purchased. Particularly, a few that are very difficult to find.

I am in the same lines of thinking as Andrew here. I’d go for it if pre war iconic player and a scarce card you won’t regret it.

[mrreality68]

I vote for go for it
Since you have the cash and do not have to charge/borrow very good sign.
If it gives you enjoyment go for it
If it is a solid card it is probably liquid and relatively to sell if needed.
If you are looking as an investment it is just a form of diversification and it is good to diversify

[G1911]

Asking a bunch of junkies and investors will always result in a ‘do it’ consensus

I would look at what percent of your cash on hand this represents, and the ease of selling it. Being able to pay for it in cash doesn’t mean tossing most of your savings account at a baseball card is wise, though it’s better than 401K draining. A rare card often has few buyers looking for it. If your gut says it is fiscally irresponsible, even though you want it and your bias is of course to do it, that’s the clue not to do it.

[LincolnVT]

If it is a Cobb, Jackson, Mantle, Ruth or Robinson in a PSA or SGC holder and the price is right…should be a no brained IMO.

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by G1911

Asking a bunch of junkies and investors will always result in a ‘do it’ consensus

I would look at what percent of your cash on hand this represents, and the ease of selling it. Being able to pay for it in cash doesn’t mean tossing most of your savings account at a baseball card is wise, though it’s better than 401K draining. A rare card often has few buyers looking for it. If your gut says it is fiscally irresponsible, even though you want it and your bias is of course to do it, that’s the clue not to do it.

greg lol

[boneheadandrube]

A couple posters have mentioned avoiding "escoteric" cards. I'd love for that to be more clearly defined, what cards are considered escoteric by the posters who only think about "Ruth,Cobb,Wagner..."?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

A big part of being a collector is which mentality you choose to follow. For me, and it was something I had to learn (so it can be done!), it has greatly helped to realize that you can part with items and it's OK. It becomes easier the more you do it. You'll find another copy of X card if it's meant to be, or something even more appealing to the future version of yourself will inevitably appear. Appreciate what you have, but don't squeeze the cards too closely to your heart. They are pieces of cardboard that bring enjoyment, but let them visit you for a while on their journeys then allow them to move on if that's how it's to be.

If the card and price points check out and it's something that you can afford without strain, just buy it. If you do find yourself pressed to sell down the road and end up making a tidy profit, you just might find your whole mentality changed on your behalf due to that nice flip you made!

[Luke]

One thing to think of is what is your history with making decisions. If you struggle with making choices and often find yourself thinking too long and missing out on an opportunity, then this would be my suggestion:

When I buy a big card, there is always a component to it of "Do I think I could sell this for about what I am paying if something happened and I needed the money?" I think that's a good question to ask yourself. If the answer is yes, and you really want the card, I don't see any reason not to buy it.

If however, you tend to make quick decisions (and be happy with them afterwards) then maybe you should listen to your gut and be cautious. Maybe the price is too high and know it would be tough to sell it if you had to. Or maybe the seller wasn't pleasant and somewhere inside you know that would impact your enjoyment of the card, etc.

[Section103]

My answer depends on whether or not this is a card Im looking to add to my collection (dont do it!) or not (hey man, go for it).

Edited to add: I havent done this in awhile, but in the past when I struggled with choices I'd flip a coin and see the results. My gut instinct would almost always spring forward and indicate whether I really should or really shouldnt.

[obiwan1129]

Hey, if the price is right and you think you could sell it later if you had to, I say go for it. You've put thought into it, you have stated that you have the means and can pay cash.

The few times (not just collecting) in my life when I didn't go and do something like this, I've regretted it later.

Let us all know what you decide and what it is...I'm dying to know.

[packs]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

A couple posters have mentioned avoiding "escoteric" cards. I'd love for that to be more clearly defined, what cards are considered escoteric by the posters who only think about "Ruth,Cobb,Wagner..."?

An esoteric card is a card that has a very limited audience. Here are some examples:

Jimmy Claxton ZeeNut
Ten Million Obak
That Uncle Sam card in the T209 set
"Rare" Old Judge team cards

All of these cards are valuable and they all have their buyers. But those buyers are never going to outnumber the buyers for a green Cobb T206, which you'll never have any trouble selling.

You might have to wait for the right buyer in other circumstances, which makes it harder to get your money out when you need it back.

[oldjudge]

The bottom line is that no one can predict the future. If you have enough cash to live for six months in your current lifestyle and you feel your job would be secure, even in a harsher than predicted recession, then I would consider the purchase. Otherwise, I would pass and work to add to my savings.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by fkm_bky

Agree with most on here...you're likely going to regret not getting it in the future, especially since you're not over extending yourself financially.

There are several cards I wish I would have jumped on at the time (in the past and recent) that I know I won't really have a shot at again, and it still bothers me .

Best of luck with your decision!

Bill

Agree completely with this.

[KCRfan1]

Tell us what you decide, and post a pic if you buy!

[frankbmd]

No offense to board members who have posted, but I don't rely on strangers' advice to help me spend my money.

[RCMcKenzie]

Frank, is this like when Bill Murray made that Somerset Maugham movie?


If I have any doubts, I pass. There are always other nice cards coming up later.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Frank, is this like when Bill Murray made that Somerset Maugham movie?


If I have any doubts, I pass. There are always other nice cards coming up later.

What About Bob?

[RCMcKenzie]

Something like that. I can't recall, which also helps not regretting not buying stuff.

[Mark17]

I look at it this way:

People need to find enjoyment in life, and often that costs money. Some people like to travel, or hit a casino once in awhile, while some will drop some dough at the local watering hole once or twice a week.

Some people take cruises, stay at nice hotels or eat out at good restaurants a couple times a week, or go to a movie theater every weekend. Some people will spend a hundred or more dollars per game attending sports events...

And so on. Here's the thing - the hobby that gives you pleasure does not involve spending money; it involves putting your money into something that will likely hold its value.

All of the other examples I gave above result in money being spent and gone. Your example is the opposite - it involves money being preserved. I'd say, not only go for it, but go for it and feel great about your decision because not only does it give you pleasure, it is also a wise move.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I look at it this way:

People need to find enjoyment in life, and often that costs money. Some people like to travel, or hit a casino once in awhile, while some will drop some dough at the local watering hole once or twice a week.

Some people take cruises, stay at nice hotels or eat out at good restaurants a couple times a week, or go to a movie theater every weekend. Some people will spend a hundred or more dollars per game attending sports events...

And so on. Here's the thing - the hobby that gives you pleasure does not involve spending money; it involves putting your money into something that will likely hold its value.

All of the other examples I gave above result in money being spent and gone. Your example is the opposite - it involves money being preserved. I'd say, not only go for it, but go for it and feel great about your decision because not only does it give you pleasure, it is also a wise move.

What you say makes some sense, but I don't agree that you cannot lose real money in the hobby. There are members here that remember bad advice they received regarding some of their own purchases.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

What you say makes some sense, but I don't agree that you cannot lose real money in the hobby. There are members here that remember bad advice they received regarding some of their own purchases.

Of course you can lose money buying a baseball card. But the other hobbies I mentioned are guaranteed money expenditures. How many baseball, football, basketball, or hockey games have you attended, where you get back any of your money later on?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Mark17

Of course you can lose money buying a baseball card. But the other hobbies I mentioned are guaranteed money expenditures. How many baseball, football, basketball, or hockey games have you attended, where you get back any of your money later on?

That's precisely what I keep telling my wife.

It's an investment, not an expenditure!!!

"You keep spending money on baseball cards..."
"Correction. I keep investing money in baseball cards."

[SyrNy1960]

I had an opportunity to buy an item I really wanted, with a cost of $10,000+. I had the money, but hesitated for a bit because of the amount. I bought it and never regretted it. I’m so glad I didn’t pass on it due to price. I knew if I didn’t buy it, I would have regretted it. Enjoying it every day!

[AndrewJerome]

Mark S, I agree completely. People spend thousands on vacations and other things with zero possibility of getting any money back. But for some reason it’s viewed as risky to buy pre-war cards that have historically held value and often appreciated nicely. I have never understood the logic.

Andrew

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by AndrewJerome

Mark S, I agree completely. People spend thousands on vacations and other things with zero possibility of getting any money back. But for some reason it’s viewed as risky to buy pre-war cards that have historically held value and often appreciated nicely. I have never understood the logic.

Andrew

I have spent several thousand on every trip to Europe and would never in a second trade any one of those many trips for a baseball card.

I do agree that unless you have to sell shortly after purchase you can get back at least half your money after fees on popular vintage cards. More if you don't pay taxes.

This is a great thread.

[Snapolit1]

I do agree that unless you have to sell shortly after purchase you can get back at least half your money after fees on popular vintage cards. More if you don't pay taxes.

Pretty absurd statement me thinks. If I buy a quality vintage card at a nice AH like LOTG or Heritage for $30,000 and have to sell it, I will get back less than $15,000? No. That's a very unlikely outcome. Not impossible but pretty unlikely. I track a few hundred vintage cards, and very very few of them have dropped 50% in value. Actually probably zero of them.

And there wouldn't be any tax liability if you bought a card and sold it for a huge loss, so I'm not sure what that means.

I haven't sold one vintage card at a 50% loss and don't know anyone who has. Maybe I've lost 10-15% but that would be the most. And on 95% of my sales I have made a profit.