Christopher Morales Forensic Investigator

[thetruthisoutthere]

It was recently discussed "Why do autograph items authenticated by Christopher Morales sell for a lot less than those certed by other authenticators?"

Let's discuss using common sense and logic.

Proponents of Christopher Morales blame it on "Morales bashing." True or false?

Mr. Morales calls himself (as per his website) a "Forensic Investigator." That title leads me to believe that he spends more time scrutinizing an autograph (or set of autographs) than other authenticators who aren't "Forensic Investigators." It is my belief also, that based on his title of "Forensic Investigator," that he, Mr. Morales, should also be held under more scrutiny based on his title of "Forensic Investigator."

Let's first examine the below Babe Ruth/Lou Gehrig dual-signed autograph bat that is presently up for auction on the Coach's Corner Auction site.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=266364

BG.jpg

During the last 10-11 years I can't remember any auction house, except Coach's Corner, that has auctioned off a Ruth/Gehrig dual-signed bat and they've listed numerous Ruth/Gehrig signed bats. Super rare item. The bidding so far on the above item is at $263.00. Is "Morales bashing" keeping the bidding down?

If I thought for one minute that the above Ruth/Gehrig dual-signed bat was authentic in my opinion, I'd make sure that I won that auction. I'd tear up the Morales COA and have it authenticated by two other authenticators and then I'd consign it to a major auction house and make a tidy profit.

I'm certain there are a ton of collectors, who as much as they may despise Coach's Corner, look for deals on there for a Gehrig, Ruth, Mathewson, Cobb, etc., signed item. Has anyone here ever found a "deal" on Coach's Corner that they eventually consigned to a major auction house?

If you owned a genuine Ruth/Gehrig signed bat, would you consign it to Coach's Corner?

If proponents of Mr. Morales really believe that the memorabilia he authenticates is truly genuine, then why aren't they bidding and buying the items that he's authenticated that are listed on the Coach's Corner auction site? I've seen numerous Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig signed jersey items that sold for under $400.00. Have proponents of Mr. Morales ever bid and won those auctions and then consigned them to a major house? If those items were authentic, you could have an easy life buying that stuff cheap and then consigning to a major auction house. But, the truth is, you never see those items consigned to a major auction auction after being sold at Coach's Corner.

Let's examine the below Christy Mathewson signed baseball that is authenticated by Mr. Morales.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=266367

CM.jpg

Christy Mathewson passed away at the young age of 45 in Oct. 1925. Anything signed by Christy Mathewson sells for big money. His signature is extremely rare. Mr. Morales has authenticated quite a few (relatively speaking) Christy Mathewson signed baseballs that Coach's Corner has auctioned off. The bidding on the above baseball is presently at $210.00.

Is "Morales bashing" keeping the bidding low? Definitely not. I know three people, who if they thought that the above Christy Mathewson was authentic, would make every effort to make sure they won that auction. They would get it certed by two authenticators and they would consign it to a major auction house. And they wouldn't care that it came from Coach's Corner; all they would see are dollar signs.

Are any supporters of Mr. Morales bidding on any of the Morales certed memorabilia on Coach's Corner this month?

Let's examine the below Lou Gehrig signed gray flannel jersey certed by "Forensic Investigator" Christopher Morales. Over the past two years Coach's Corner has auctioned off at least one dozen of these.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=264094

LG.jpg

The present bid is at $282.00. Is "Morales bashing" keeping the bidding low? Of the dozen or so sold at Coach's Corner over the past two years, why is it that none of them have ever surfaced at a major auction house? Why is the average final bid price on those dozen or so items approximately $400.00? Why aren't collectors of genuine Lou Gehrig memorabilia getting into a bidding war and driving the price up on pieces like this? Even the "shill bidding" that is allowed on the Coach's Corner auction site doesn't drive the price up on pieces like the above.

Why aren't supporters of Mr. Morales posting memorabilia authenticated by Mr. Morales to support their claims of "Morales bashing?"

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

If I thought for one minute that the above Ruth/Gehrig dual-signed bat was authentic in my opinion, I'd make sure that I won that auction. I'd tear up the Morales COA and have it authenticated by two other authenticators and then I'd consign it to a major auction house and make a tidy profit.

Spot on. What would stop Richard Simon from buying it up for pennies on the dollar and reselling with his own authentication for a massive profit? He could make a million bucks a year just flipping items from Coaches' Corner.

Why isn't the Heritage Consignment director buying it all up and getting it certed by PSA and making a mint?

[danc]

Everyone would make a living buying from Coach's and consigning to REA if it was all that simple.

Last month they sold a 1925 New York Giants signed team mini-bat that sold for $551 with Morales LOA.

What could the consignor get for this if it was sent to Robert Edwards?

$30,000? $40,000? $50,000? Not a bad payday for doing nothing.

Coach's did state the value of this at "priceless".

We'll see how much the next one brings. :-)

DanC

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by danc

Coach's did state the value of this at "priceless".

I think they've confused "priceless" with "valueless."

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by danc

Everyone would make a living buying from Coach's and consigning to REA if it was all that simple.

Last month they sold a 1925 New York Giants signed team mini-bat that sold for $551 with Morales LOA.

What could the consignor get for this if it was sent to Robert Edwards?

$30,000? $40,000? $50,000? Not a bad payday for doing nothing.

Coach's did state the value of this at "priceless".

We'll see how much the next one brings. :-)

DanC

And the next one, and the next one, and the next one....

Maybe Morales supporters will purchase the below Morales certed item presently listed on the Coach's Corner Auction site and prove to us that it is authentic:

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=263432

YT.jpg

A 1932 Yankees team-signed baseball. Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Bill Dickey, etc. Certed by Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator. Bidding is up to $386.00. A bargain so far. Are supporters and proponents of Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator, bidding on this ball? After they win it, will they consign it to REA, Heritage or Hunt for a big pay day?

[Big Dave]

Stop all you Morales bashers......

Personally, I would love to find a good item in their auctions, and flip it. Seems the good items go for a decent price when these show up, and you can't make anything.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

And the next one, and the next one, and the next one....

Maybe Morales supporters will purchase the below Morales certed item presently listed on the Coach's Corner Auction site and prove to us that it is authentic:

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=263432

This ball is screaming, "All these signatures were signed by the same hand!"

[perezfan]

The Ruth/Gehrig personalized/signed Bat at the top of this thread is one of their better forgeries. This one could have fooled me, if I saw it in a reputable venue. Bet the "winning" bidder (and I put winning in quotes) holds on to it for a while and then flips it.

The rest are pretty obvious fakes, but someone really did their homework on the Bat.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Maybe Lee Trythall or Scott Malack of Coach's Corner can ask his consignor the provenance of the above Ruth/Gehrig signed bat and then pass it along to us.

I'd love to know the provenance of a bat signed by both Babe Ruth & Lou Gehrig.

But then again, Coach's Corner has auctioned off well over a dozen Ruth/Gehrig signed bats.

What's the provenance of all of those bats, Mr. Trythall?

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Maybe Lee Trythall or Scott Malack of Coach's Corner can ask his consignor the provenance of the above Ruth/Gehrig signed bat and then pass it along to us.

I'd love to know the provenance of a bat signed by both Babe Ruth & Lou Gehrig.

But then again, Coach's Corner has auctioned off well over a dozen Ruth/Gehrig signed bats.

What's the provenance of all of those bats, Mr. Trythall?

Well, it's not a generally known fact, but Babe and Lou were part of the first "Baseball's Heroes and Legends" public signing. This took place in October, and featured Babe and Lou, as well as Ty Cobb, Cy Young, Walter Johnson, and many other heroes. A "superticket" cost 5.00, which , tho expensive in those days of the late 20s era, entitled you to TWO autographs of each star appearing. Now, despite those limits, the Great Uncle of Mr Trythall was working as a ticket taker at this event, which I believe was held in Harrisburg PA (you could ask Lee, he may know the exact locale). Thusly, if there was "leftover" stock that the promoters had signed, Lee's great uncle Festus was alllowed to take the merchandise for a nominal fee. So, apparently, that is how these GREAT sigs got passed down, and today, are offered cheerfully by ROACHES CORNER. PURVEYORS OF MUSEUM QUALITY MEMORIES.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

Well, it's not a generally known fact, but Babe and Lou were part of the first "Baseball's Heroes and Legends" public signing. This took place in October, and featured Babe and Lou, as well as Ty Cobb, Cy Young, Walter Johnson, and many other heroes. A "superticket" cost 5.00, which , tho expensive in those days of the late 20s era, entitled you to TWO autographs of each star appearing. Now, despite those limits, the Great Uncle of Mr Trythall was working as a ticket taker at this event, which I believe was held in Harrisburg PA (you could ask Lee, he may know the exact locale). Thusly, if there was "leftover" stock that the promoters had signed, Lee's great uncle Festus was alllowed to take the merchandise for a nominal fee. So, apparently, that is how these GREAT sigs got passed down, and today, are offered cheerfully by ROACHES CORNER. PURVEYORS OF MUSEUM QUALITY MEMORIES.

In all seriousness, that's funny, Scott.

[thetruthisoutthere]

What's really interesting about the below Lou Gehrig signed jersey authenticated by Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator, is the fact that it was signed over 70 years ago with a fountain pen and yet there is no sign of bleeding, etc. Amazing. I would think that a "Forensic Investigator" would ask that question immediately upon "forensic examination."

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=264094

TT.jpg

[GrayGhost]

Everything you say and many others on here Chris makes sense, of course, and we all know what blatant crooks and thieves these guys are. But, tho educating some people has prob hurt their business some, they just need to be stopped by the law. I hear class action suits, FBI, etc etc, but I just don't see anything done, unless someone was caught in the act or confessed something.

[Trl3789]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

What's really interesting about the below Lou Gehrig signed jersey authenticated by Chris Morales, Forensic Investigator, is the fact that it was signed over 70 years ago with a fountain pen and yet there is no sign of bleeding, etc. Amazing. I would think that a "Forensic Investigator" would ask that question immediately upon "forensic examination."

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot.aspx?LotID=264094

Attachment 38358

Not that my opinion is worth much, but that was definitely the first thing i noticed. It struck me as wrong right off the bat. It almost looks stitched.

[thetruthisoutthere]

This isn't about "Morales bashing," it's about common sense and logic. Morales has certed well over a dozen Lou Gehrig signed jersey items and as a "Forensic Investigator" he never asked himself how a 70 year old uniform signed in fountain pen could look like it was penned just a few months ago?

I mean we're talking about fountain pen ink and old wool. And Morales claims on his website the following:

President. Morales Forensic Investigations, Falls Church, Virginia, Private forensic services and investigative company. Company provides services in all areas of questioned documents, including handwriting and hand printing examinations, typewriting, stamp impressions, photocopies, writing instruments, ink, paper, detection of erasures, alterations, erased and obliterated text and paper. Company also conducts firearms examination (ballistics), fingerprints, crime scene work, and other forensic science disciplines. Court qualified forensic science expert. October 1995 to Present.

[Mr. Zipper]

By the way...

It's probably best to NOT refer to "Roaches Corner." Use the correct name -- Coaches Corner -- so when people search on them these threads show up.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

By the way...

It's probably best to NOT refer to "Roaches Corner." Use the correct name -- Coaches Corner -- so when people search on them these threads show up.

Good point, but we hate to give them the respect of a "real name"

[chaddurbin]

a serious question...are there really supporters and proponents of morales, besides his mother maybe?

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

a serious question...are there really supporters and proponents of morales, besides his mother maybe?

Q, probably the suckers, i mean customers, who have purchased stuff certed by him and want to say they have a real, legit item

[mcgwirecom]

For a 6 pack he would sign anything!

[Dalkiel]

This guy was the witness for Roger Hooper's hearing seeking to appeal his felonies in Pennsylvania. Needless to say it was denied in record time.

[bh3443]

i just want to thank Chris (thetruthisouthere/tomtresh) for his help in IDing a forgery. Here's where forgeries belong once discovered!
This is photo #1. Click my name and look into the album as my called shot is hit into the ocean!
Have a great weekend my friends!
Bill

[Fuddjcal]

I find it an out and out "COMPLETE JOKE" that there are people tooting this idiots Moral ass's horn. Like I have said before, he is either a seasoned criminal or a complete numskull.

I will re-iterate in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS THAT THE ONLY 2 AUTHENTIC MICKEY MANTLE AUTOGRAPHS THAT I HAVE SEEN IN 7 YEARS ARE THE 2 HE PEELED THE STICKERS OFF OFF FOR THE JSA STING.

This man, and I use the word loosely, either needs to go directly to jail with-out passing go, or needs to update his exemplar files. I guess anyone can stand behind anyone, but it just shows you that there is always someone looking to take the asses point of view and that's what the creater of the "Morales is the best Authenticator in the world" website is doing. Those who started that website, will not have 1 once of credibility until they try to smash this clown down the way they have JSA & PSA. YES... a complete and utter joke indeed, but somehow, I'm not laughing.

[Big Dave]

Did a search on "Morales is the best Authenticator in the world" and seems there are fans on both sides of the fence.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Did a search on "Morales is the best Authenticator in the world" and seems there are fans on both sides of the fence.

I think you'll find his fans are many of the same folks who despise PSA and JSA because they are not "true experts."

[travrosty]

are psa and jsa true experts?

by asking this question does that mean i approve of morales?

where do i state that?

some people try to play the game that if someone is against psa or jsa, that they are somehow for morales. its like the question, "when did you stop beating your wife? psa and jsa, and morales are two different issues, two totally different paradigms, and to suggest that you have to be for one (psa, jsa), in order to be against the other (morales) is ridiculous, and if you are against one (psa,jsa) you have to be for another (morales) is equally ridiculous.

people judge authenticators psa, jsa, morales, each according to their own individual skill and track record.

its like the people who say if you are not for public dwi checkpoints, then you must be for drunk driving. how stupid of a statement is that?

[Vintagedegu]

-

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Vintagedegu

I've thought about that in recent years. Unfortunately, there's a lot of weirdos that use perfectly legitimate criticism/ rants/ horror stories concerning PSA/ JSA to defend their boy or score points on the opposition.

It'd be the 'LoL that's AA' fallacy- reasonable critics may get blown off because similar arguments are made by total goofballs.

I don't think anyone claimed that every person who was a PSA/JSA critic was a fan of Morales, however **some** certainly are.

The fact that the website of disgraced "forensic document examiner" Donald Frangipani links to the sites dedicated to attacking JSA + PSA speaks volumes about the motives of SOME of the people who wish to see PSA/JSA discredited.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

I don't think anyone claimed that every person who was a PSA/JSA critic was a fan of Morales, however **some** certainly are.

The fact that the website of disgraced "forensic document examiner" Donald Frangipani links to the sites dedicated to attacking JSA + PSA speaks volumes about the motives of SOME of the people who wish to see PSA/JSA discredited.

The HBO Sports show that aired in Jan. 2006 says everything that needs to be said about Frangipani. His classic statement "If I made error then I admit to those errors." Yeah, 1,000 errors.

[Vintagedegu]

-

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Vintagedegu

I didn't say anybody here did.

Sorry... that wasn't directed toward you. I should have simply replied or quoted someone else.

[jgmp123]

Guys,

I was recently checking out some online memorabilia auctions that appeared on www.proxibid.com and noticed a great of items coming through with Morales and Jon scarborough of J.S. Sports Investments COA attached to them.

All coming from the same auction company, Easton Auction Company. It looks like they are setting up auctions each week peddling fake items...

Would love to hear your thoughts on some of the items...

Also, not sure if you have heard of Jon Scarborough or J.S. Sports Investments, but after doing a quick google search, it looks like the auction company has been fought time after time for refunds based on fakes.

https://www.proxibid.com/asp/catalog.asp?aid=47970

http://www.auctionzip.com/Listings/1399625.html

[toyman55]

Im confused here so excuse me if I am wrong but are you all saying that morales will authenticate anything and is putting out fakes or/ is he good at what he does.
please clarify.

[jgmp123]

authenticates fake signatures.