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  #111  
Old 07-02-2017, 08:26 AM
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Andrew Aronstein
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Default Original negatives- underrated? Show yours

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Originally Posted by mikejanesphotography View Post
Legally a stand alone print is editorial, it's been challenged and courts have been very clear that selling a print is not commercial.
Please provide a source for this info. Even if that is the case, anyone selling prints online wouldn't be selling standalone prints. They'd be producing many multiples and offering them as made-to-order items. If it got big enough the leagues could take action for copyright and trademark infringement.

Trust me, I'd love to see it happen but I think there are many legal hurdles that need to be considered.

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Leagues of course look at it as a commercial product and require licensing, and if you don't want to cooperate they have the power to shut you down....though literally thousands, if not millions, of photos are for sale on eBay, most stolen.
Correct. Which is why everyone involved in this lawsuit is royally screwed. Several eBay stores were obtaining images through this guy:

http://www.extortionletterinfo.com/f...te-fb-forums)/

http://press.gettyimages.com/stateme...r-a-kowalczuk/








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  #112  
Old 07-02-2017, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Forever Young View Post
More original conlon images outside of neg collection? Yes.. nany more
Interesting, I wonder what happened to the other negatives for the other Conlon images. Surely, the other Conlon negatives must exist somewhere as well?
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  #113  
Old 07-02-2017, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Keith_Loving View Post
Interesting, I wonder what happened to the other negatives for the other Conlon images. Surely, the other Conlon negatives must exist somewhere as well?

There are lots of original photos and several negs in the archive I work with. We have everything separated alphabetically though, so it'd be a lot of work to figure out exactly what's there.


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  #114  
Old 07-02-2017, 06:56 PM
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Conlon destroyed a ton of negatives himself, supposedly because of the amount of space they took up. But there are definitely a lot of original photos that have survived and made their way to various auctions, even as far back as the Christie's Baseball Magazine auctions 20 years ago.

Andrew, granted I wasn't there for super long, but when I perused Photofile's archives almost ten years ago, I didn't remember seeing any Conlons. Admittedly, I was only looking for specific players though, and it was what seems like forever ago. Regardless, they do have a ton of really nice and expensive stuff.

Last edited by GKreindler; 07-02-2017 at 06:57 PM.
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  #115  
Old 07-02-2017, 08:51 PM
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Conlon destroyed a ton of negatives himself, supposedly because of the amount of space they took up. But there are definitely a lot of original photos that have survived and made their way to various auctions, even as far back as the Christie's Baseball Magazine auctions 20 years ago.

Andrew, granted I wasn't there for super long, but when I perused Photofile's archives almost ten years ago, I didn't remember seeing any Conlons. Admittedly, I was only looking for specific players though, and it was what seems like forever ago. Regardless, they do have a ton of really nice and expensive stuff.


Graig, I think it's great you got to take a look at the archive. End up pulling anything? Lots and lots of great stuff in there. Most if not all of the archive was accumulated by my father and was his resource for creating TCMA cards in the 70's and 80's.

There are four Conlon glass negs that I'm aware of but likely more. Will post some pics later this evening .


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  #116  
Old 07-02-2017, 10:53 PM
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So here is a Judge Landis, followed by a Zack Wheat with the Brooklyn Robins in 1919. Based on the handwriting I'm guessing this is a Conlon but could use some opinions on that. Either way, 1919 makes Wheat the oldest glass plate negative I've come across in our archive so far:





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  #117  
Old 07-03-2017, 01:00 AM
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I will say it probably could be challenged and would be a very interesting case to follow because a lot of legal definitions that have stood for awhile could get redefined. However, since it's a first amendment issue and always viewed pretty liberally and wide reaching, I honestly do not think a league would ever go far with the case because it could not work out in their favor, and that could open up Pandoras Box so to speak (of course it already exists kind of). I know of two photographers who challenged two different leagues, no suit, just banned.

Anyways, the case remember most you can look at is probably IPA (Illinois Press Association) vs. IHSA (Illinois High School Association). It got "settled" by the IPA getting everything they wanted, the court said the IHSA could not stop them from selling prints because it's constitutionally protected and they also could not limit access (this of course we know is different in major sporting events, they can deny anyone they want, which is a good thing!).

The leagues do not care about copyright issues, that's the photographers and agencies responsibility to worry about (unless the photo is league owned). Players Association worries about likeness, leagues worry about trademark. There's literally thousands of sellers illegally selling stolen photos on eBay, the leagues do not care one bit because it's copyright infringement, not trademark.

Alan could get a good amount of jail time, there's more on that list as well as he wasn't the only one doing it, just seems to be the stupidest one who posted it everywhere and didn't do a good job being sly about it. Two print labs that were doing most the printing of stolen pics had to turn over their order history to the feds. I hope they stick it to him and the others hard, some of the boards he was using deleted the photo sections thus destroying evidence, could get interesting.

Doesn't have much to do with negatives though, if you own the rights to an old negative and selling prints nobody is going to sue over it. If you don't own the rights then whoever does might and could come after you, and if it's an orphaned work it's illegal to even scan it. Fun world we live in.
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  #118  
Old 07-03-2017, 07:40 AM
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Andrew, those definitely look like Conlons to me! What's interesting is that you don't see a whole lot of shots of his from Ebbets Field - the majority are from Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds (And Hilltop Park in the earlier days). Even the ones from Washington Park are few and far between, with the exception of those batting practice photos when Pittsburgh was in town.

Also, your dad had some excellent taste - there's a lot of iconic images in there. I remember getting one image of Mickey Mantle from 1957, but I think that was it. Chuck was super nice to grant access to the place, and the project we did together was fun, though I wish more came from it - I can't believe how long ago it was!!
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  #119  
Old 07-03-2017, 11:26 PM
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Default Conlon Wheat

The Wheat is definitely a Conlon. No doubt. A beauty! Thanks for sharing.

I would say that the Landis is most likely not a Conlon. From what I have seen, Charlie was fairly consistent with his player/team identification and other markings on the top edge of his negatives. Much like you see on the Wheat. Then again, there is a chance that he just didn't mark the Landis neg.

Is the Landis the same size as the Wheat? The Wheat should be 4 x 5.
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  #120  
Old 07-04-2017, 10:07 AM
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lWhat's interesting is that you don't see a whole lot of shots of his from Ebbets Field - the majority are from Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds (And Hilltop Park in the earlier days).
Interesting. I do know we've got two other Dodgers that he shot: Paul Richards and Max Carey but those are from the 30's. Will have to do some more digging when I'm back in the office this week.



Quote:
Also, your dad had some excellent taste - there's a lot of iconic images in there.

Thanks, Graig and I absolutely agree - great stuff. If you take a look online at the old TCMA cards (and they produced a LOT of different sets back in the day), many of those images are still in the archive either as original photos or negatives. Some are offered on Photo Files website, others are tucked away forever most likely.

Still, I'm always coming across images I never knew existed and my jaw hits the floor.

In my mind, the MOST iconic image is this Lou Gehrig that is part of our glass plate negative collection originating from The New York Sun. My father bought this collection containing hundreds of glass plate negs from an antique shop in CT in 1969:








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