Gehrig Fatima Matches

[Snapolit1]

Anyone ever seen this before? Recently picked up at a modest price. Maybe I was snookered with a fantasy piece. Seems pretty ancient. Did some research and couldn’t find another pack for Lou or any other player, which is a little odd. Took a flyer as they say. Seems appropriate wear for age.

I do see a fantasy Fatima card with same desihn, so maybe that's my answer.

[Leon]

Never seen it and it looks kind of weird. It doesn't have the quality of what an original item does, I don't think.
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[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Leon

Never seen it and it looks kind of weird. It doesn't have the quality of what an original item does, I don't think.
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I'm increasingly certain it's a fakie.

[2dueces]

Fantasy piece or a fake meant to fool

[Lordstan]

I saw that on ebay as well. I was tempted, but could not find anything on line remotely close to it, in either Gehrig or any other players. I came to the conclusion that it was a fantasy piece and passed. It started as a BIN for $250 and then the seller dropped the price quite a bit. Last I saw it was $150 BIN or BO
The image kind of reminds me of the Sport Stamps from 1936, but the borders of the stamps are less ornate and often times have the newspaper name or similar across the top

[steve B]

It looks like they skinned an old matchbook and printed their own images on it.

That's an interesting choice, and they have the striker on the opening side like most older matchbooks do.

[nebboy]

I also saw that listing and tried to with no luck find out more info on Fatima matchbooks from that era. The seller did have offers/sells of other matchbooks that were particularly unstapled in the same fashion as this one but they were all decidedly newer. Also the the color of the inside of the match cover of the player was so different then cover. That and several other small issue concerns like Fatima font style used during Lou’s playing days. So I also passed for the price.

Hope you or someone can find more solid info on the matchbook.

***I do have a question that comes from the fact that the image is not centered to a fold on the bottom. Is the more image or how far does the image extend under the matches?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by steve B

It looks like they skinned an old matchbook and printed their own images on it.

That's an interesting choice, and they have the striker on the opening side like most older matchbooks do.

Not saying you are wrong, but that's a lot of effort to go throught for something you'd be lucky to sell for $75. And if someone went through all that trouble, I'd expect to more than one on eBay in last 10 years.

Very odd.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Not saying you are wrong, but that's a lot of effort to go throught for something you'd be lucky to sell for $75. And if someone went through all that trouble, I'd expect to more than one on eBay in last 10 years.

Very odd.

One thing I just thought of. Can you tell if the ink on the number 4 is under the staple or on top of it?

[Lordstan]

I did some more searching and can find no Fatima matchbooks at all. While I agree that it seems strange to me to go through all that effort for $75, on the flip side, if I found something of a mega popular player like Gehrig or Ruth that no one had ever seen before, why would I only sell it for $75. I would have certainly held out for the $250 at least if not more.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

One thing I just thought of. Can you tell if the ink on the number 4 is under the staple or on top of it?

Can't tell.

Wonder if the 4 is coneivably in a period appropriate font. Sees to be vaguely fututistic.

Top fold also says "A Sensible Cigarette" in a different font.

Looked at it under a loupe. It's printed, no dot matrix job from modern computer.

[nebboy]

Maybe black light the matchbook to see if it’s modern.

[jbsports33]

Never see anything like this before and I buy a lot of odd ball stuff!

Compare the matches and paper to ones from the 1930s - there are plenty out there.

Good luck!

Jimmy

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Not saying you are wrong, but that's a lot of effort to go throught for something you'd be lucky to sell for $75. And if someone went through all that trouble, I'd expect to more than one on eBay in last 10 years.

Very odd.

The texture of the cardstock seems pretty rough. Most matchbooks I've had of all types were similar to trading cards, with the outside smooth, often surfaced stock. and the inside just plain smooth.

Yes, it's some extra work to take a matchbook apart, remove the existing printing, but leave the striker then print some new images/text. Then reassemble.
Even stranger with it not being a modern computer print.

And not out there in any quantity.
Very strange for sure.

[JustinD]

I would say the fantasy reprints you previously mentioned are likely the direct path to the resolution of this question -

https://collect4less.com/products/19...mint-condition

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I would say the fantasy reprints you previously mentioned are likely the direct path to the resolution of this question -

https://collect4less.com/products/19...mint-condition

Entirely possibly, maybe even likely or very likely.

Just odd to see a one of fake of something that you can't find anywhere. Those cards are easy to find. And those cards aren't fantasy pieces, but are based on a card that was actually in Fatima packs.

[bigfanNY]

It has been a few years since I was a regular at most of the NJ and Bucks County PA flea Markets. But having kicked around them for 50 odd years I have seen a great number of items designed to seperate dollars from collectors. One of the tricks I learned was that if you design a stamp and use an ink pad, you get an old time vibe without any dot pattern. I have seen small signs with 2 ir 3 colors created this way. Find some old paper stock and you are in business. And if you dont directly copy something it is hard for the law to pin anything on you. But these clearly use the exact same Gehrig Picture as the 1914 "Fantasy" card. But the design on the match book looks to me like it was stamped. ( jmho I have never held the item in my hand)

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Entirely possibly, maybe even likely or very likely.

Just odd to see a one of fake of something that you can't find anywhere. Those cards are easy to find. And those cards aren't fantasy pieces, but are based on a card that was actually in Fatima packs.

I think they are just loosely based on T222's, which have matching backs but the frame was not a part of. The matching frames are what raises my thoughts.

I may be wrong and forgetting something right now, but I do not believe there is a real Fatima issue with that border frame I can think of for any subject.

[D. Bergin]

There's any number of places like Zazzle and Vistaprint, where you can custom make your own rubber stamps with a simple .jpg image.