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  #11  
Old 06-09-2018, 06:52 PM
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Kyle May
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Yes but they weren't hitting home runs.
Very true, but what's the trade off between consistently moving the line along, and hitting HRs but striking out 200+ times a year?
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  #12  
Old 06-09-2018, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
How does that mind-boggling season compare with Gibson's 1.12 or the season Pedro was something like 2 runs better than the next guy in ERA?
Gibson was 22-9 with 13 shutouts and .853 WHIP. Pedro only started 29 games and pitched less than 220 innings. Johnson pitched 346 innings and won 7 more games than Pedro pitched. Pedro isn't in the discussion with guys that pitched 50%+ more innings.
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  #13  
Old 06-09-2018, 07:41 PM
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The average starting pitcher in 68 had a sub 3.00 ERA, and the mound was lowered the next year and pitchers hit. I think I would take Pedro.
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  #14  
Old 06-09-2018, 08:01 PM
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The assertion that half the hitters of the deadball era hit .300 is not correct. For example, during the great Ed Walsh season of 1908, there were only three .300 hitters in the American League - Cobb, Crawford and Gessler. People see the great batting averages of players like Cobb and Wagner, and assume there were lots of players in their day who had high averages. Not true. It is a testament to their greatness that they outhit the league average by a wide margin season after season. Some of the lowest league averages in baseball history occurred during the deadball era. Hard as this may be to believe, we tend to underestimate the greatness of Cobb and Wagner, and Speaker and Lajoie as well.
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  #15  
Old 06-09-2018, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drumback View Post
The assertion that half the hitters of the deadball era hit .300 is not correct. For example, during the great Ed Walsh season of 1908, there were only three .300 hitters in the American League - Cobb, Crawford and Gessler. People see the great batting averages of players like Cobb and Wagner, and assume there were lots of players in their day who had high averages. Not true. It is a testament to their greatness that they outhit the league average by a wide margin season after season. Some of the lowest league averages in baseball history occurred during the deadball era. Hard as this may be to believe, we tend to underestimate the greatness of Cobb and Wagner, and Speaker and Lajoie as well.
I stand corrected. Thank you.
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  #16  
Old 06-09-2018, 08:12 PM
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Would it be better to break this up into eras?
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  #17  
Old 06-09-2018, 08:16 PM
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In regards to Koufax's 1965 season. He was also the winning pitcher in the All-Star game. In the World Series, he won games 5 and 7 with complete game shutouts. He was truly Mr. October!
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  #18  
Old 06-09-2018, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
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Would it be better to break this up into eras?
Agreed. It’s way too difficult to compare players from the different eras. In a lot of respects it’s almost like two different games altogether.
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  #19  
Old 06-09-2018, 08:45 PM
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You could argue that it's even more than two eras when it comes to pitching. The deadball era was just that. The ball was soft, pitchers were allowed to score, scuff and dirty it up which not only allowed them to put more english on their pitches, but it made the ball much more difficult to see for hitters.

Then there's the first several decades of the liveball era in which pitchers still had a higher mound, but also still pitched complete games for the most part. Then the mound was lowered and relief pitchers and righty-lefty specialism became the norm. Then the steroid era came along. And since the mid-aughts or so, since the testing has taken over, we're in a new era.

So it could be argued that there is a pre-MLB era of before 1900 or so, the deadball era of the beginning of the 20th century through the early 20s when the ball was changed. The 20s through the 60s, where while there were certainly changes in the game, the pitchers were still expected to pitch complete games and the ball was roughly the same. Then the lowering of the mound at the end of the 60s and the growth in popularity of the reliever. And then the late 80s through the early aughts would be the steroid era.

Sheesh, that was a mouthful. But if you're going to be totally fair and impartial about the greatest pitchers of all time, the parameters of their eras are important.
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  #20  
Old 06-09-2018, 08:56 PM
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Sean Costello
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Walter Johnson in 1913. 36-7 1.14 ERA 11 shutouts ERA+ 259 WHIP .78.
+1. Best season ever. My second choice would be Maddux in 1995 or Gooden in 1985.
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