New SGC grading fees

[Leon]

It has been done for years.

Go get a coin graded by PCGS and this is their top tier..$250 + 1% of value ..A 2 million dollar coin would be $20,250 to grade....


SERVICE MAXIMUM
COIN VALUE ESTIMATED TURNAROUND
(BUSINESS DAYS) PRICE
RARITIES None** 2 - 5 days $250 + 1%*
WALKTHROUGH $100,000** 2 days $125
EXPRESS $20,000 5 days $60
REGULAR $3,000 15 days $32
ECONOMY(Non-Gold, Non-Hammered)
(Pre-1932 Chinese and Pre-1925 Russian coins must be submitted at the Regular Service level or higher.) $300 20 - 30 days $20
MODERN (1965 to date) $1,000 20 - 30 days $16
MINT ERRORS $20,000 25 - 35 days $60
SPECIAL ISSUES (U.S. - Colonials, Fractional Gold, Patterns, Territorials) $20,000 25 - 35 days $60
GUARANTEE RESUBMISSION
(Charge refunded if coin downgrades) None up to 60 days $25
REHOLDER None** 5 days $12
SHOW SERVICES
SHOW RARITY None** 4 hours $250 + 1%*
SHOW EXPRESS $100,000** 4 hours $250
SHOW $100,000** End of Show $125
SHOW ECONOMY (5-coin min.) $3,000 End of Show $65
SHOW GOLD (U.S. Gold only-10-coin min.) $3,000 End of Show $45
SHOW REHOLDER None** End of Show $12

Originally Posted by irv

I disagree. There is no way a TPG should be charging more to grade a card just because it is worth more. Why should they benefit from your good fortune?

Imo, they should just be glad you chose them as the TPG of choice and not someone else. They also receive free advertising, which, of course, equals more sales, more $$$, when these cards come up for auction.

To me, it's like if you happened upon a $1000 dollar card that you got for a $100, then the next guys says, I will give you $150 because you only paid $100 for it yourself.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Leon

It has been done for years.

Go get a coin graded by PCGS and this is their top tier..[B]$250 + 1% of value ..A 2 million dollar coin would be $20,250 to grade....

I hear you, Leon, and I know that is the way it is, and maybe they couldn't stay in business if they didn't do that, but that aside, it makes no sense to me, as I assume they don't do anything more special with a more valuable card than they do with a lesser one.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by irv

I assume they don't do anything more special with a more valuable card than they do with a lesser one.

Well they sure as hell don't look harder for signs of restoration...

[irv]

Originally Posted by aquarian sports cards

well they sure as hell don't look harder for signs of restoration...

lol.

[orly57]

Sgc is about a 45 minute drive from my house. They are great guys and give fantastic customer service. The owner is accessible and friendly. They are consistent (even if I don't always agree with the standards, at least they follow them). And finally, their holders are so much nicer. As an investor, psa gets more money (for now anyway), but as a collector, I like looking at my cards, and their holders really make them pop. Look at these two similar Cobb's side by side. Can anyone even attempt to argue that it looks better in a psa holder???

[BobC]

[QUOTE=Leon;1634787]It has been done for years.

Go get a coin graded by PCGS and this is their top tier..$250 + 1% of value ..A 2 million dollar coin would be $20,250 to grade....


Leon, I'm not picking on you personally but, just because something has been done a certain way for years doesn't make it right, or mean that it should be continued.

Been a CPA my entire adult life and the only real thing a CPA does, that no one else can, is give their opinion about someone's financial information. The operative word is "opinion", which is all it ever is or can be. These financial statement "opinions" are done so owners/others know where they stand as far as the financial state of their businesses and affairs but, they are also extremely critical when people go to buy or sell companies in determining values and price for such transactions. Pretty much what a TPG does when they give an opinion on a card's grade so the owner knows what shape it is in, and can also use that opinion to assist in determining the value of it for sale.

As a CPA, I am bound by professional ethics and rules to act in a completely independent and ethical manner. I am strictly PROHIBITED from doing anything as a CPA on a contingency basis, which is exactly what giving an opinion on a card, and then charging someone for that opinion based not on the actual work performed but, the perceived value of the card, is! The reason a CPA is not allowed to provide a financial opinion based on a contingent fee is because if they did, they would no longer be considered "independent" of the people/company they were doing the work for in the first place. In other words, my "opinion" would be considered tainted due to my not being independent and the "opinion" would be deemed worthless.

The only reason we haven't held these TPG companies to similar standards is not their fault, it is the collecting community's fault in not demanding it of them.

BobC

[Leon]

I wasn't defending the practice and I agree with you. I was only pointing out it has been being done for years. I am guessing CU has a few lawyers on retainer so I doubt it's illegal and I agree it seems like a conflict of interest to me too.

[QUOTE=BobC;1634834]

Originally Posted by Leon

It has been done for years.

Go get a coin graded by PCGS and this is their top tier..$250 + 1% of value ..A 2 million dollar coin would be $20,250 to grade....


Leon, I'm not picking on you personally but, just because something has been done a certain way for years doesn't make it right, or mean that it should be continued.

Been a CPA my entire adult life and the only real thing a CPA does, that no one else can, is give their opinion about someone's financial information. The operative word is "opinion", which is all it ever is or can be. These financial statement "opinions" are done so owners/others know where they stand as far as the financial state of their businesses and affairs but, they are also extremely critical when people go to buy or sell companies in determining values and price for such transactions. Pretty much what a TPG does when they give an opinion on a card's grade so the owner knows what shape it is in, and can also use that opinion to assist in determining the value of it for sale.

As a CPA, I am bound by professional ethics and rules to act in a completely independent and ethical manner. I am strictly PROHIBITED from doing anything as a CPA on a contingency basis, which is exactly what giving an opinion on a card, and then charging someone for that opinion based not on the actual work performed but, the perceived value of the card, is! The reason a CPA is not allowed to provide a financial opinion based on a contingent fee is because if they did, they would no longer be considered "independent" of the people/company they were doing the work for in the first place. In other words, my "opinion" would be considered tainted due to my not being independent and the "opinion" would be deemed worthless.

The only reason we haven't held these TPG companies to similar standards is not their fault, it is the collecting community's fault in not demanding it of them.

BobC

[oldjudge]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe SGC guarantees the grade on their card. The potential liability from grading a very valuable card is much higher than the potential liability from grading a $25 card. That, and the cost of insuring the card while in their possession is also higher. I'm sure this explains at least part of SGCs cost structure.

[glchen]

Right, the rationale between charging more for a higher declared value is that the TPG's guarantee the authenticity of the card and the grade. (I know folks will argue about the WWG Dimaggio since it looks like PSA isn't backing off the 7, but let's not get into that here.) Therefore, if the TPG is incorrect, they have to pay for the difference in the value of the card between the correct and incorrect grades or entire value if the card were not authentic. You can think of this as a kind of "insurance," so if the TPG has a higher liability on the card, it would only be fair that they would charge more for that. For example, I believe SGC may have had to pay out due to incorrectly authenticating a few D350-3 cards a couple of years ago including a Ruth (Link) which could have cost them tens of thousands of dollars. (As a result of this, I believe SGC is now no longer putting many stamped back variations on the flip.) Therefore, it seems justified to me that a TPG take higher fees for a 10K card than a $10 card due to these liability issues. In addition for higher dollar cards, I believe that the TPG does spend more time with the card. I remember on the PSA forum, in one thread (Link), SGC did not certify the grade for the card because it would be very valuable with that grade, so they wanted another grader to confirm the grade on that card before they allowed the grade to pop. And that grader was on vacation for that week, so the submitter would need to wait a little longer to receive the their card back even though they paid for a 2 day service level. So it is both greater liability and greater attention to the more valuable cards that factors into the higher service fees.

I just wanted to add that Beckett actually does not charge a different service fee for the declared value of the card. They only charge different fees based upon turnaround time. Only PSA and SGC charge different fees based upon declared values. So you can say it can be a business decision by the TPG also.

[botn]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe SGC guarantees the grade on their card. The potential liability from grading a very valuable card is much higher than the potential liability from grading a $25 card. That, and the cost of insuring the card while in their possession is also higher. I'm sure this explains at least part of SGCs cost structure.

Both PSA and SGC have a guarantee on their grades however neither company buys back as many cards as they should however SGC is probably better at honoring their guarantee. I know they cannot possibly be worse than PSA in this regard. Anyway, if the graders are doing their job then there should be no reason to have to offer a guarantee on their opinions.

[1952boyntoncollector]

has anyone on this board ever enacted the PSA guarantee and was compensated?

[Dpeck100]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

has anyone on this board ever enacted the PSA guarantee and was compensated?

I purchased a card from a collector/seller that had a wrinkle that was either missed or happened during the sealing process. I worked with him and PSA and he was compensated fairly. It stunk for me because it was a Pop 1 PSA 9 and I sold my other highest copy as it was being mailed to me. A real bummer.

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by botn

Both PSA and SGC have a guarantee on their grades however neither company buys back as many cards as they should however SGC is probably better at honoring their guarantee. I know they cannot possibly be worse than PSA in this regard. Anyway, if the graders are doing their job then there should be no reason to have to offer a guarantee on their opinions.

1st question - If these companies guarantee their grades, what happens if I send in a card and it grades a 2, and later on I sell the card and someone else sends it in and it grades a 7, shouldn't I be compensated for the difference in value because it was graded too low to begin with? I am pretty much just joking, but it is an interesting concept.

2nd question - PSA's Collectors Club requires an annual fee. Is SGC's Gold Club fee an annual fee or just a one time fee? I can't find the info on their website.

Rick

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by buymycards

2nd question - Is SGC's Gold Club fee an annual fee or just a one time fee? I can't find the info on their website.

Rick

It is a yearly subscription.