NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-13-2007, 11:56 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: bruce Dorskind

TOPPS SETS BID TERMS
Bloomberg

June 12, 2007 -- Topps Co., the baseball trading-card maker, may consider a $416 million buyout by rival Upper Deck Co. if Upper Deck can guarantee financing and overcome antitrust issues, a Topps lawyer said.
Topps said in March it would be sold to a group including former Walt Disney Co. Chief Executive Officer Michael Eisner for $9.75 a share, or $384.5 million. Last month, Upper Deck offered $416 million, or $10.75 a share.

"We're concerned about their ability to close this transaction," Topps lawyer Brian O'Connor said yesterday at a Delaware Chancery Court hearing in Wilmington.
If Upper Deck can get financing and avoid antitrust barriers, "the board is more than prepared to deal with them," O'Connor told Judge Leo Strine Jr.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-13-2007, 11:58 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Cobby33

A Tour de Force of mass-produced, mediocre, overpriced cards.

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-14-2007, 04:25 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Pcelli60

Let topps remain a product of our memories..Remember it as it was. What it produces today matters to us here..not.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-14-2007, 05:07 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: dennis

agree w/above lets remember these and not the shiney stuff of today.

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-14-2007, 06:10 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Jim Dale

the card industry today does little right, but combining them into just one entity isn't going to make it better.

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-14-2007, 06:31 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Tom Boblitt

at a holiday inn express last night. I'd be interested if anyone really cared about antitrust laws on this or not. Guess they could. Seems like 400M isn't a HUGE amount but if it could jeopardize peoples options.....

Maybe Eisner will pony up a little more to stave off UD. UD isn't stupid though. They would maintain the Topps name and many, if not most, of their products.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-14-2007, 10:05 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Richard Masson

The antitrust issues here are interesting. The Players' Associations should be the most worried and should argue the hardest. They created the oligopoly by canceling licenses to Fleer and Donruss. I believe Topps or UD purchased those trade names, so the Association would be forced to fund a new competitor to keep the negotiations honest.

It all comes down to market definition, and there is previous case law (Fleer vs. Topps) that probably gives guidance in how to define it. The fact that Topps lost that case implies a narrow market definition, which would not be positive for allowing the takeover. If UD really wanted to buy Topps, they shopuld have done it before the other two companies folded.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-14-2007, 11:20 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Peter Spaeth

The Topps court appears to have found that Fleer did not meet its burden of showing a baseball card market, but went on (seemingly arbitrarily) to nevertheless find a baseball card "submarket" which Topps had monopolized. The findings from the opinion are interesting, and perhaps somewhat dated.

74. There is insufficient evidence on the record to determine whether Topps's competitors consider baseball cards to be a separate market or submarket. Fleer has therefore failed to prove that the industry recognizes baseball cards as a separate market.

75. Baseball cards do not have distinctive prices. They are priced at about the same level as candy bars and many different types of chewing and bubble gum.

76. Sales of Bubble Yum, a soft bubble gum introduced nationally by Lifesavers, Inc. in 1976, had a huge adverse impact on the sales of traditional hard bubble gums, such as Topps's "Bazooka" and Fleer's "Dubble Bubble."

77. Close substitutes should show reciprocal sales movement.

78. Sales of baseball cards are not affected by sales of editorial (non-sports) cards. Editorial cards are not meaningful substitutes for baseball cards.

79. Topps often sells its editorial cards at a lower price than its sports cards.

80. Topps introduced into evidence an elaborate market study conducted by Child Research Service, Inc., a child marketing research firm headed by June Esserman. Mrs. Esserman testified as an expert at trial. The study consisted of an analysis of the results of interviews with boys ages 7-12 conducted during successive weeks outside of candy and convenience stores in three separate cities (Rochester, Cincinnati and Minneapolis). The children were asked *497 a great variety of questions about what they had considered purchasing, what they actually purchased, what they paid, etc.

81. During the first week of the Esserman study, the price of Topps's baseball cards was 20 cents. During the second week, the price of baseball cards was raised to 40 cents. Baseball cards suffered a precipitous drop in sales during the second week. A large percentage of those boys who considered baseball cards but did not buy them "bought something else instead"-largely because the price was too high.

82. The Esserman study was designed to show (and did show to an extent) the existence of price cross-elasticity among the items on a typical candy rack.

83. Sales of baseball cards were shown to be sensitive to a price increase of 100%. The Esserman study showed that a rise in price from 20 cents to 40 cents caused an 88% decline in sales of baseball cards. (DT 5381, Tables 1 & 4).

84. There is little evidence in the record to show whether sales of baseball cards are sensitive to small changes in price. In 1974, the price per card in the standard package rose about 4% (adjusted for approximately 6% inflation) over the 1973 price, and sales rose about 35% (adjusted for inflation). In 1975, the price per card in the standard package rose about 17% (adjusted for inflation) over the 1974 price, and sales fell about 17% (adjusted for inflation). In 1978, the price per card in the standard package fell about 12% (adjusted for inflation) compared to the 1977 price, and sales rose about 32% (adjusted for inflation). (P-182 through P-187; DT 5431R; stipulation of counsel).

85. Baseball cards are unique. For decades, they have been an important and distinctive part of many childhoods. Baseball cards have achieved a type of public recognition that distinguishes them from such items as other trading cards, bubble gum and candy. Cardboard, wallet-size pictures of active major league players have existed for generations. Even if the product was merely a casual idea of a long-forgotten promoter in the 1880's, and even if there are hundreds of variations and substitutes which logically might exist, the concept is now so embedded that baseball cards literally define themselves. The permanence of those cardboard pictures is a market reality which the Court must recognize.

86. The baseball cards themselves are the part of Topps's package that are primarily sought by children. The gum is of lower quality than Topps's normal bubble gum, and is offered simply as a premium for the cards. In fact, many children do not chew it. A number of low cost (perhaps baseball related) non-confectionary products would also serve as potentially attractive premiums, among them felt insignia, plastic novelties or emblems, magnets in the form of team logos, a batting average calculator (cf. DT 267), or iron-on patches.

87. The relevant economic submarket in which baseball cards are sold consists of all pocket-size pictures of active major league players, sold alone or in combination with a low cost premium, in packages priced from 15 cents to 50 cents.

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-14-2007, 11:51 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Dan Bretta

The memories of our youth (well some of us anyway ) will always be good ones when Topps had a monopoly on the card market. Of course it will never go back to the days of real cardboard cards, but maybe a monopoly on the current card market won't be such a bad thing.

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-14-2007, 03:11 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: boxingcardman

"Baseball cards are unique. For decades, they have been an important and distinctive part of many childhoods. Baseball cards have achieved a type of public recognition that distinguishes them from such items as other trading cards, bubble gum and candy. Cardboard, wallet-size pictures of active major league players have existed for generations. Even if the product was merely a casual idea of a long-forgotten promoter in the 1880's, and even if there are hundreds of variations and substitutes which logically might exist, the concept is now so embedded that baseball cards literally define themselves. The permanence of those cardboard pictures is a market reality which the Court must recognize."

Should be the N54 creed.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-14-2007, 03:38 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Dylan

Everyone likes to say the card companies do little right these days but what would you like to see from them? One set produced from each company, per year, in small numbers? I dont think thats economicaly viable anymore.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-14-2007, 05:03 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Bob

Dan you took the words right out of my mouth!

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-14-2007, 05:18 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: barrysloate

The modern cards have no character. I can't even tell them apart.

I can identify every Topps card from 1952 to the mid-80's at a glance. From the 80's on I couldn't identify a single one. Can anybody?

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-14-2007, 06:18 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Dan Koteles

Barry- there has to be a few kids that love the hobby just as much as we may had that can memorize every player and stat, no matter how many companies their are. It is just that we are older now and not as sharp. Look at what had survived the years and not to mention the wee choices they had of keeping them nice for us over time. I will say that Iam glad to not have grown up in the new collective bunch.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-14-2007, 06:41 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: barrysloate

Hi Dan- you are completely correct that I am looking at this through the eyes of an adult and not as a child. But when we were kids we loved baseball cards, and every year we waited to see the new designs. Today far fewer kids even care about them, and I have to tell you, they still all look the same to me. I know the world has changed drastically and kids have plenty of other choices, but I can't believe the kids today care about it the way we did. Maybe some do, but they have too many distractions.

If my ranting seems to have no point, what I'm trying to say is the Topps company has been rendered somewhat irrelevant today.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-14-2007, 07:23 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Bob C

Hey,
If the deal is a steal why not?

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-16-2007, 04:17 PM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Paul S


Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-18-2007, 08:29 AM
Archive Archive is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 58,359
Default Why Acquire A Card, When You Can Buy The Card Company?

Posted By: Dan Koteles

Barry- I didnt think you were ranting at all. What is funny about todays packs is that adults are the only ones that can afford them ,so just how much collecting is done by the kids?

Wonders if the dads give the kids all the commons and they keep the splinters of bats or the patch of rags.

I buy a few items of my pack collecting days just to have that 'old' feeling. Lots of memories Barry. My mother and father must have been slightly annoyed when I bugged them to take me to the store a few times a week. 3-d cards out of cereal or packs at any given store, I wanted it all.

There still is that kid that was just like us waitng to see just the new Topps cards. Rare though !

Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Not Your Father's Baseball Card Company Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 14 02-20-2009 04:47 AM
CSA Grading Card Company Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 12 10-02-2007 10:43 PM
Wholesale Card Company Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 06-27-2006 06:01 PM
odd card company help needed Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 06-14-2006 03:37 PM
Grading card company rules............ Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 5 01-19-2004 12:33 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:44 PM.


ebay GSB