Moses Fleetwood Walker?? humm

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Posted By: base2base

O.K if Jackie Robinson was the frist black baseball player in the major leagues, then what about Moses Fleetwood Walker? What's the deal with that, do you think Walker would be rolling in his grave knowing that hes not recognized for not being the frist black player in baseball???

Does anyone know if Moses Fleetwood Walker have a bb card please let me know.(I just gotta have one!)

Brad

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Posted By: jay behrens

Walker has no card, but is pictured ina number of team photos. Walker is also no longer recognized as the first Black preofessional ball player. Recent discoveries have shown that this distiction belong to another player (name slips my mind at present). According to record, this player was able to pass as White and no one knew he was Black, so technically, Walker was the first "known" Black player to play major league baseball.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: base2base

He's the frist black baseball player in the majors, THERE'S NODOUBT!

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Posted By: Julie

I "recognized" him to the tune of almost 3.5K. I sold a T206 Plank to bid on it, and another card, in one auction.


(I have cropped almost the entire mount and one man in this picture, so it will fit in my website's limitations--and Net54s.) His catcher's mask lies on his knee.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

I believe the other man was Bud Fowler?

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Posted By: john/z28jd

The first black player in the majors(there, happy Kevin)was Bill White who played 1st base for the 1879 Providence Greys.Fleetwood Walker and his brother were the last up until Robinson

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

In May, 1878, John "Bud" Fowler became the first black player to play professionally, albeit in the minors, when he took the mound for the Lynn Live Oaks of the International League.

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Posted By: Julie

........

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Posted By: john/z28jd

They pointed it out but didnt know his name or the team or year.He wasnt hiding it from anyone.He was known to be a mixed race kid raised by a black mother,and that might be why he only played one game in the majors.Once an opposing team found out they probably objected.I have no proof of that but his performance during the game didnt warrant him never playing again

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Are you kidding me? The guy was black, but was passing as white... and his name was "MR. WHITE?"



"Let me get this straight, Mr...uh...White. You want to borrow $50,000., but you have no collatterall, no references, and you don't even have any ID?"

"That's right."

"I'm sorry, Mr. White, this is a bank, not a charity....

"Er, I'll handle this customer, Larry, why don't you go to lunch?

"Well... OK, Bob."

"Whew, Mr. White... that's was a close one!"

"What a silly negro!"

"Here, take all the money you like, and pay us back whenever you want... or don't, we don't care!"

-- Eddie Murphy, as Mr. White (SNL, 1983)

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Posted By: Welcome Aboard Brad

True, it's not a vintage card as we know it here, but it is from a baseball set put out in 1984.

The set is made up of 119 cards, and Fleetwood's card is #28.

The card uses the image from the team picture that you posted.
It's a very interesting and inexpensive set put out by Larry Fritsch.

http://www.fritschcards.com/pages/negro.html

Again Brad, welcome aboard.
Joe P.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hal- I think that Eddie Murphy sketch was the one he was most famous for. Do you remember how he studied up to become white? He read Hallmark cards to get the gist of how white people speak. A classic.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

"I like the moustache, it makes me look sort of Harry Reams-ish."

"I had to practice walking around with my butt all tight."

"I realized that when white people are alone... they just give each other things."

"There was only one other black man on the bus... and he got off on 45th street."

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Posted By: Julie

Master Card says are...

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Posted By: This Is Your Capt. Speaking

Be prepared for another anything but sports Highjack.

Hey guys, did they permit this on your other board?
Sorry Brad I tried, and one of them should really know better.
I hope you find your card.

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Posted By: ramram

I've still got that Eddie Murhpy skit on video tape from many, many years ago. Such a classic that I actually never taped over it. It was part of the Saturday Night Live Shorts Show.

One of the best of the short skits was Billy Crystal and Christopher Guest as the two old negro ball players. "Rooster" and "King" I believe they were called. Absolute classic. Those guys played the parts so well you almost would think they were the real thing. "Smelt Night", "broken tibia/fibia", cameos by Dave Winfield and Yogi Berra. Rooster was so fast that he "hit a line drive once and it hit him in the head when he slid into second base".

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Posted By: John

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Jimmy Claxton the first black to play in a major league game buy posing as an American Indian.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Jimmy Claxton played in the PCL in 1916 for the Oakland Oaks.

The known list of black players in the major leagues is
1879 Bill White,providence,nl
1884 moses and welday walker toledo,aa
1947 Jackie Robinson
etc

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Posted By: Julie

Moses played for the AA Toledo Blue Stockings for a whole year. (We consider the AA of that time to be major league).

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hal- I'm a TV junkie, and will test my wits of SNL trivia with anyone. But you seem to have that sketch down word for word. Is it memorized, or do you have a trick? Two other great Eddie Murphy sketches are when he plays Stevie Wonder to Joe Piscopo's Frank Sinatra, and they sing "Ebony and Ivory" with Piscopo adding the line"..my amigo negro, let's not fight." (I've heard Piscopo talk about that line to this day). Also, the sketch where Murphy plays a two-bit talent agent and Piscopo finds him bad acts, among them Alan the Stevie Wonder impersonator; but Alan is played by Stevie Wonder himself, who pokes fun at his own singing voice. I trust you remember these both (and Rob seems to be an SNL fan too).

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Posted By: barrysloate

Remember when the last black person got off the bus, everyone started to play music, dance, and serve cocktails. Truly priceless (I always suspected he wrote that sketch himself).

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Nothing funnier than Stevie ("Alan") finishing up his rendition of "My Cherie Amour"... the audience going wild...

and then Eddie saying:

"Naw... he still sucks."



"That was groovy thinkin', Lincoln, when you set them freeeee."

"I am black and you are white...."

"You're as blind as a bat and I have sight."

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Welday played 5 games in the majors Julie

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hal- that's it. You are officially challenged to an SNL trivia contest.
Give me the date of the first episode, as well as the very first sketch before an unknown Chevy Chase came out for the first time to say: "Live from NY, it's Saturday Night." You may retaliate with one of your own.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Yes, the audience really went nuts when he sang My Cherie Amour correctly. He did a good job of singing off key too- and was even chastized by Murphy for forgetting one of the lines to his own song.

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Posted By: Talk About a Phony

Here's a guy that slides back and forth from sports forum to sports forum, posing as Mr. Nice Auctioneer Man, and friend of the New Collectors.
A real sweet guy to the newbies.

He goes over to the Strictly Vintage Talk Forum, and nothing but Strictly Vintage Sports Talk Forum. (A very focused forum)
One must remember that a sports forum divided within itself, must be covered by Mr. Nice Auctioneer Man. (he knows what side of his bread is buttered.)

He slides back to us, and permit me to disect this if I may.

1. base2base AKA Brad, in an attempt to add to his knowledge, he asks a question about Moses Fleetwood Walker.

2. Members of this forum joined in with their take on the subject, and some added some very interesting images to go along with it.
Everyone was trying to contribute to Brads quest.

4. Much to my surprise, tHE gator chimes in with an SNL skit.
True, it was funny, as most SNL skits tend to be, but it wasn't any help to Brad.

5. Enters the Nice Auctioneer Man, and he proceeds to add his focused TV knowledge of the SNL Show, an oratory by the way, that has nothing whatsoever to do with Brad's quest.
Does he really considers it to be Nothing but Strictly Vintage Sports Talk?

6. At the risk of alienating the other half of this forum, I shot a salvo over the bow of the focused sports vintage talk impersonators.
It was an attempt at fair play for base2base Brad.

7. The fairplay members of this forum made an attempt to to steer this thread back on course.
BUT.

8. Back came Barry.
More determined than ever to Highjack base2base Brad's thread. .... so much for Mr. Nice Guy for the newbies, or oldies for that matter)
The man misread the salvo, and he came back with a vengence.

9. I allowed him to expose himself like a streaker.

What you see, is what Barry the Sloate is.

He is definitely not in the class of a Lipset, or Lifson.
He's in the class of some of the other guys.

10. I call 'em, as I see 'em.

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

Joe,

I have to disagree with you. Barry Sloate has never been anything but a classy, stand up guy. BTW, as best as I can tell, when the SNL digression on this thread occurred, all outstanding questions had been answered. That's me calling things as I see them.

Kenny Cole

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Joe:

While I must admit that the digression into SNL territory was clearly off topic, your ripping Barry a new one seems unduly harsh since Brad got a fair amount of information on the first black baseball players from those replies that stayed on topic.

Barry has always responded promptly and courteously to any question I've posed to him on vintage baseball material. I'm sure he's treated others similarly.

Kevin

P.S. Missed you at Fort Washington today. Could have used a dose of your repartee. There was nothing there for me to buy (that I could afford anyway). Thank God there were a few board members there to chat with.

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Posted By: Amigo Kenny

Kenny Cole:

Joe,

"I have to disagree with you. Barry Sloate has never been anything but a classy, stand up guy. BTW, as best as I can tell, when the SNL digression on this thread occurred, all outstanding questions had been answered. That's me calling things as I see them."

Kenny Cole
*
*
*
Kenny amigo,
It is obvious that you didn't follow the batting order of this thread.
I tried to dissect it as close as possible as to the entrance of the players.
If you read the thread again, you will see that:

John (wonkaticket)
John/z28jd
Julie
All tried to stay on topic AFTER what you call "the SNL digression."
Are you saying that their questions were meaningless?

Your classy stand up guy came back again.

Once more John/z28jd tried to get back on topic.

And once more Mr. Focused Class did on this forum what would have been
Taboo on another. ..... He highjacked the thread.

Kenny, I didn't write this script.

This script was written by the players as they stepped up to plate.

Amigo, either you and I are looking at a different game, or you missed a couple of strikes.

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Brad:

We forgot one other significant African American professional baseball player - Frank Grant. He was perhaps the greatest black player of the 19th century. His strong hitting (.344) and acrobatic fielding helped the Buffalo International League (then Eastern League) team to a plus-.500 season and a fifth-place finish in 1886. He became the first African American to play on the same team in organized baseball for three consecutive seasons (1886 - 1888).

The picture is from Sol White's Official Baseball Guide.

Kevin

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

This is my last response to you on this thread because your rant is frankly too trivial and meaningless to merit much attention. Sometimes I just can't help myself though. Oh well.

As best as I can tell, there were at least four people who posted about SNL-related topics on this thread. I guess they must all be phoneys. I suppose that makes you a phoney as well, since you too have occasionally been off topic on a thread. Just calling it as I see it. (Note to self: Please remember that only Joe P. is allowed to attempt to interject levity into any thread -- and then only his brand -- it is verboten to all others to try and make funnies).

Having gone back and read the thread as per your suggestion, I fail to see any question that went unanswered. To my way of thinking, that means you have nothing substantive to bitch about. So do something different and quit acting like a grump.

BTW, since you want to use baseball terms, the nice thing about missing a couple of strikes is that you still have one left to hit the ball with. You, on the other hand, have just fouled out. Have a nice day.

Kenny Cole

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Posted By: Julie

Some of you must have read "Catcher in the Rye," even though it was written in the middle of the last century. In the book, Holden, who has been kicked out of 3-4 prep schools, is remembering a debate class, where the teacher encouraged students to yell out "DIGRESSION" when the speaker strayed from the topic. He hated it, becaue he sort of liked it when people digressed.

I think it's a lot of bull, as Holden did. The topic will either be covered, or (probably_) already has been covered, when someone pipes up with a "digression" My own interest in SNL died with Guilda Radner, John Belushi, Andy Kaufmann and Steve Martin--gee, all but one of THEM are dead, too! But if we're finished with black pro players of the days before Jackie Robinson,--what's a guy have to do, start a thread called SNL?

There've been a lot of ill feelings for little reason on this Forum lately, it seems to me.

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Posted By: Elliot

Joe is the ONE that is worrying that Barry has gone off-topic. I have received more information from one phone call with Barry than I have from all of Joe P.'s posts on this forum. Barry is about as pleasant as it gets, and I've never consigned nor bought from him, tho I have bid, so I'm not trying to get into anybody's good books. Joe, you seem like an angry old man.

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Posted By: I Must Be Tuff Eh Amigo

Next Case!

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Posted By: PASJD

"It Starts With T it Rhymes With P and It Stands for Pool - Right Here In River City
December 31 2004 at 9:53 PM Joe P. (Login tobacco-r-us)


Response to Another DiMaggio "Streak" Bat? More PBOR Horror Stories

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PASJD,
This is off topic, and I apologize to all, but you asked for it.

A few centuries ago, I use to play for the Broadway Show softball league. they also had a bowling league during one nite of the week.
After the last curtain of the nite, everyone would meet at this alley and let it all hang out.

We were all on teams that represented shows on Broadway so it was a blast and the ever present competition was always there.
One night I found myself playing against Robert Preston and his team, (can't remember the name of show) It was his turn, and he was in the mental preparations before his shot.
As I watched him, and I tried to time my comment so that it would be just before he had reached his mental comfort zone - and I said:

"Digby, if you make that Strike, I will give you a Vikings funeral."

If you have never seen the 1939 movie classic "Beau Geste," you wont know what I'm talking about, ... but he did, he was Digby.
He stopped in the middle of his first stride, turned around, looked at me with the winning smile that he was famous for, and we both broke out laughing.
This was in the early sixties somewhere, and he couldn't believe that anyone would dig back to 1939 to try to affect a game in the early '60's.

He didn't get the strike.

A real great guy, and one hell of an actor."


ALAS.

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Posted By: ramram

I thought my SNL story about the Billy Crystal/Negro Player skit was a perfect segue between the original thread and the SNL topics. Kind of ties everything together and makes everybody's topics relevant.

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Posted By: Elliot, You Are So Right

He's a sweet innocent victim of my imagination.

I vote that we should put both Barry and Bushing in the Protective Endangered Species Program.

This way we can be assured that no harm will come to them from some unscrupulous collectors.

As I write this, I'm LMAO, this has become one funny thread.

Keep your ears, eyes and minds closed.
Good things will always happen to you.

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Posted By: David Seaborn

Barry Sloate = class. He's among the finest people in the hobby. I, for one, feel fortunate he is a regular N54 contributor.

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Posted By: ramram

Is there really any question as to who has actually hijacked this thread? Just check out who has the most square footage of off-topic commentaries and you'll have your answer.

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Posted By: Julie

ANYTHING, much less Saturday Night Live! Barry was actually the third or fourth poster on the subject anyway. Also, he let me stay at his house. And showed me all the stuff for his next auction.

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Posted By: RC McKenzie

Jackie Robinson is notable as the figure that helped begin the process of integrating baseball. We may never know who was the first major leaguer with African ancestry.

Incidentally, while sitting in traffic on Friday afternoon, I flipped over to NPR from Houston drive time radio sports talk during a commercial. Eric Idle was being interviewed about his new Broadway show called 'Spamelot' based on the Monty Python movie. Idle said that he wanted to keep with Gilliam's idea in the film of 'meta dialogue' or refering to the content. Idle has a parody of an Andrew Lloyd Webber song in the production entitled "Where is the song that goes like this". It sounded really funny. Living in Houston, it may be 2 years before it makes over here.

Regards, and I have a Colgan's Chips thread coming in the near future.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

If someone wants to jump in with a remark and the others don't care to respond, fine; if many respond there is obviously an interest. The SNL digression was fun and in the normal context of conversation between friends, esp. with the irony of Mr. White being black. If you want to be rigldly on topic 24/7 this board ends up reading like an Al Gore stump speech

Barry is a great guy and ceaselessly helpful to board members with questions about rare issues and items. 'Nuff said.

Joe, leave the snide remarks out or go somewhere else.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hi everyone- I was away for the weekend so this is the first chance I had to read this; I wasn't avoiding it. Thanks for everyone who said such kind things about me; I really am embarrassed by all the attention and how nice you have all been. And tobacco-are-us, to tell you the truth, I don't even know who you are- if you have the need to attack me, it might be courteous to sign your name to your post. It was Friday afternoon and I just thought I'd have a little fun, that's all. Hal made a comment about an SNL skit and it was one of my favorites, and I responded. So shoot me. Your personal attack was awfully vindictive given those circumstances. To tobacco-are-us, I say lighten up. Life is too short. David Rudd just put up a post about civil behavior on the board, and I'm all for it. But if you have to say something nasty, sign your name to it. I like to know who my friends are, and my enemies too.

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Posted By: Julie

mad before, so I dunno. Very uncharacteristic.

You could toss in a couple of "Amigos," and write in single, separated lines, and everyone would think you were Joe.

Even when Joe was talking about Koos and Co, he didn't get THAT mad!

Anyway, sorry, Barry. It is neat to have the propriator of an auction house participating in threads on the Forum. Pliz don't go away.

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Posted By: barrysloate

To my dear friend Joe P- I noticed in one of your sunnier posts that you put my name and Dave Bushing's together. I do not know Dave personally but I am well aware that he has been relentlessly attacked on this board for ethical lapses and conflicts of interest. Since you grouped us together, shall I assume that because I discussed an SNL skit that my own ethical standards have been compromised? In other words, how can you trust a guy enough to buy a baseball card from him if he likes Saturday Night Live? I eagerly await what I assume to be your charming response.