Topps Venezuelans

[craigpw]

Haven't noticed a thread recently on the Topps Venezuelan cards, so I thought I'd start one. I'm interested in learning information other members may have about the various issues. One bit of info I can offer is that, from my experience, 1959's and 1960's are much rarer than the other years. A distant third in terms of rarity is the 1968 issue followed by 1962. Finally, the 1964 and 1966 are the easiest. This, of course, leaves out the 1967 issue which is a different animal, which I won't address. Again, please post interesting bits of information, especially you Josh. Look forward to hearing from everyone.

Thanks,
Craig

[quitcrab]

I have always been confused about the 1972 Venz Stamps Are they a topps issue ? How can you tell the real from the fake ? What is the correct font for the names on the front of the card? Thick/heavy/ bold or less heavy thinner type ?

[1963Topps Set]

I really like the 1959s and I have some. The 1968 and 1964 are also really nice. I also like the 1962s, the 1966 and 1967 I stay away from.

[ALR-bishop]

The person with the most expertise I know, Josh A, posts occasionally on this board. I think he has all of the sets, or close to it. I will ask him to drop in

http://net54baseball.com/showthread....pps+venezuelan

[a761506]

I do have them all from 1959-1968 and can say definitively that the 1967 MLB portion of that set (150 total cards) is the most difficult to assemble. 1959 had been very tough until recently when Larry Sarver discovered a contact in Caracas who consigns lower grade cards to him on the regular. He has had quite a few of the high numbers available over the past couple years.

1968 has a couple cards that are extremely rare for unknown reasons. The 3rd checklist in the 1962 set seems to be the toughest of that set. No true card scarcities exist in 1960, 1964 & 1966.

If the goal was just to build a set in any condition, then you are absolutely correct, your best bet would be 1964 & 1966. While they may seem like less of a challenge compared to the rest, those are both monster sets of 370, and if you wanted only cards without evidence of glue or other common major flaws (writing, rat-gnawed corners, tape), I suspect it would be a bear to build either set from scratch right now with better than an average grade of VG.

Personally, I think the overall "easiest" of the sets to build in decent condition is 1960. The cards don't have glue problems. The stars are limited, the Mantle/Boyer & Yaz are super tough because of the competition for rare star items, but even they can be found occasionally. Hardly anyone is working on one, so there is almost no competition or market for commons.

My favorite set of all of them is the 1967 full set. I think it is absolutely spectacular. The Venezuelan league cards are mostly gorgeous, some have amazing backdrops. The Retirado cards are as unique of a creation the hobby has ever seen. And the MLB portion is shrouded with mystique and unbelievable scarcity for a post-war issue.

[hcv123]

I defer to Josh as he is MUCH more knowledgeable than I. I will chime in with my experience:

I have collected Venezuelan cards for about 20 years now. I have predominantly been after the HOFers and big stars. A special focus on Clemente As far as Clemente goes - the 1967 card is far and away the most scarce. PSA has graded only 6 copies - 2-5's, a 3 and 3 1's. I have seen half of them. I have had my eye out for it for the better part of the last 20 years and only seen the 3 referenced above. After that I would say the 1968 is the next most difficult, followed by the 1968 #3 leaders card and 1968 Pirates team card, then 1968 #1 leaders card. Finding a 1962 would be next - at least 1 or 2 show up a year - nice condition - whole other ball game. lastly the 1962 leaders card and the 1966 ( relatively (for a Venezuelan) "common" ) and findable in mid grade.
I am grateful to own many of the cards I have sought. Some still on my want list:

1959 Mantle, Koufax
1964 Mantle
1967 Aaron
1968 Ryan, Rose, Seaver, Carew, Yaz, #3 leader card

I have a couple of extra Mays card to consider trading for any of the above

[Section103]

Originally Posted by quitcrab

I have always been confused about the 1972 Venz Stamps Are they a topps issue ? How can you tell the real from the fake ? What is the correct font for the names on the front of the card? Thick/heavy/ bold or less heavy thinner type ?

Quitcrab - don't know if anyone replied to you specifically, but see the thread linked below.


http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=199484

[Thecafewha]

My latest pick-up.




Joshua Van Pelt

[DBesse27]

Wow! A PSA 6 Venz is like a PSA 11 from regular 62 Topps!

[begsu1013]

rare stamps count, right?

[Rrrlyons]

I purchased a 70 album with 277 of the 300 cards in it. Album is in real bad shape but the cards are real nice. It doesn't have the cover but the person I bought it from has another in his collection so he made me a copy to put with the album. Point being topps or any kind of logo not on the album which doesn't sound like topps. Back to if the 70 set isn't topps then to me the 67 set isn't either. Is there an expert here on venes that can confirm 67's not topps.

[Rrrlyons]

Cover

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by Rrrlyons

I purchased a 70 album with 277 of the 300 cards in it. Album is in real bad shape but the cards are real nice. It doesn't have the cover but the person I bought it from has another in his collection so he made me a copy to put with the album. Point being topps or any kind of logo not on the album which doesn't sound like topps. Back to if the 70 set isn't topps then to me the 67 set isn't either. Is there an expert here on venes that can confirm 67's not topps.

Nobody can definitively confirm that they are or aren't Topps, but I don't think they're Topps. There's just too many oddities about the set that I don't trust.

[TheNightmanCometh]

I'm 11 cards short for a complete Braves Venezuelan Topps Base card run. Here's what I've been able to collect so far...

[DBesse27]

Looks like you're skipping the 67's. I am too. I'm not convinced they were a Topps issue.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Ya I the they're sport graficos. I do have a Rico Carty and I notice a Torre is for sale right now on eBay, but ya I'm convinced they aren't topps.

[Thecafewha]

I just picked up some more 62's including #199 & 200 and a few HOFers. Not great condition but I'm working on both raw and graded sets.




Joshua Van Pelt

[DBesse27]

Holy crap, josh, great score!

[Charlos13]

New to the board and collecting here are my first additions

[Charlos13]

Correct picture

[DBesse27]

Wow, Carlos, starting with some serious star power! I don't own any 62 Venz cards yet

[TheNightmanCometh]

Lots of '59s on eBay lately. I blame what's going on in Venezuela right now. It's a shame for those that live there.

[Charlos13]

Thank you and yes for sure 62 is my favorite year of the Venezuela I missed out on Aparicio hopefully one comes up.

And i saw that I was wondering have you guys bought cards from those individual before?

[Manny Trillo]

What is a Venezuelan card?

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[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

What is a Venezuelan card?

A card issued in Venezuela.

[Manny Trillo]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

A card issued in Venezuela.

That's odd, they're not printed in Spanish.

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[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

That's odd, they're not printed in Spanish

Most aren't. Some of them say "hecho in Venezuela." And the 67's are in Spanish, but there's a lot of evidence those weren't actually issued by Topps.

[Manny Trillo]

So if they're not print in Spanish how do you know they are Venezuelan

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[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

So if they're not print in Spanish how do you know they are Venezuelan

Depends on the year. I'll break it all down for you tomorrow. The 64's are the easiest. Backs of American 64's are in Orange, Venies in black.

[Manny Trillo]

Thanks it sounds like a counterfeit operation

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[irv]

Some more Venezuelan info.

http://www.psacard.com/Articles/Arti...AyNDgxNTc0MwS2

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by Manny Trillo

Thanks it sounds like a counterfeit operation

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It's not a counterfeit operation. You can tell the difference because the card stock used to make the cards is noticeably cheaper in quality. The cards, when held in hand come off as very fragile. Also, none of the VZs have any gloss on them like their American counterparts. Topps made them to take advantage of the growing popularity of baseball in Venezuela. Those are the #1 ways to tell the difference between a VZ Topps card and an American Topps card.

Now, if you're talking about the '67s, oh ya, those are counterfeit, IMO.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

Now, if you're talking about the '67s, oh ya, those are counterfeit, IMO.

Any info on these being counterfeit would be greatly appreciated. Don't have any just trying to add a little knowledge. I did have a Joe DiMaggio Retirado and I could easily see it as being a fantasy card with the horrible picture quality. The one I had was in both SGC(X2) and PSA slabs.

[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Any info on these being counterfeit would be greatly appreciated. Don't have any just trying to add a little knowledge. I did have a Joe DiMaggio Retirado and I could easily see it as being a fantasy card with the horrible picture quality. The one I had was in both SGC(X2) and PSA slabs.

Ryan and I have had extensive discussions about the 67's and what he means to say is that there is a growing belief within the hobby that they're not issued by Topps, that they're a pirated issue. I am of that belief. From a design standpoint (no borders, shitty picture quality) to the checklist (all the others follow a portion of the American Topps checklist exactly while the 67's have the retirado subset and also some players like bobby cox who were playing in Venezuela but not part of the American set) to the fact that there's more Spanish than you usually find in a Topps Venezuelan issue.... It just doesn't add up. Plus, starting in 1960, Topps issued Venies in even years: 1960, 62, 64, 66, 68. Why throw in 67? A lot doesn't make sense.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Ryan and I have had extensive discussions about the 67's and what he means to say is that there is a growing belief within the hobby that they're not issued by Topps, that they're a pirated issue. I am of that belief. From a design standpoint (no borders, shitty picture quality) to the checklist (all the others follow a portion of the American Topps checklist exactly while the 67's have the retirado subset and also some players like bobby cox who were playing in Venezuela but not part of the American set) to the fact that there's more Spanish than you usually find in a Topps Venezuelan issue.... It just doesn't add up. Plus, starting in 1960, Topps issued Venies in even years: 1960, 62, 64, 66, 68. Why throw in 67? A lot doesn't make sense.

Even if pirated, which I think is likely the case, I don't think they should be classified as counterfeit as they aren't exactly counterfeits in the traditional sense.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Ryan and I have had extensive discussions about the 67's and what he means to say is that there is a growing belief within the hobby that they're not issued by Topps, that they're a pirated issue. I am of that belief. From a design standpoint (no borders, shitty picture quality) to the checklist (all the others follow a portion of the American Topps checklist exactly while the 67's have the retirado subset and also some players like bobby cox who were playing in Venezuela but not part of the American set) to the fact that there's more Spanish than you usually find in a Topps Venezuelan issue.... It just doesn't add up. Plus, starting in 1960, Topps issued Venies in even years: 1960, 62, 64, 66, 68. Why throw in 67? A lot doesn't make sense.

And to add to that, no other Topps VZ year has Venezuelan League cards.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Any info on these being counterfeit would be greatly appreciated. Don't have any just trying to add a little knowledge. I did have a Joe DiMaggio Retirado and I could easily see it as being a fantasy card with the horrible picture quality. The one I had was in both SGC(X2) and PSA slabs.

It's been awhile since I've done any research. Let me look around and talk to a couple of people and I'll get back to you on that.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by TheNightmanCometh

It's been awhile since I've done any research. Let me look around and talk to a couple of people and I'll get back to you on that.

Thank you, it would be greatly appreciated. Do you believe them to be printed in the proper time frame or are they a more modern fantasy set?

I understand there is a printer in Venezuela that was/is still printing the Venezuelan Topps cards and aging them. Not just the 67's but all years. I think there was even a thread on here about it warning people about the Venezuelan eBay seller that was peddling them.

[Thecafewha]

Great cards.


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[DBesse27]

I once told my friend that the card below was the baseball card I wanted most for any of my projects. He responded with a couple of tough Yaz cards. I said fine, the most of any non-Yaz baseball card. 4 HOFers on one card. Mays and the Hammer. 1964 Venz, a set I collect. I thought I would never afford one, especially in better-than-poor condition. And then this happened:



Seriously a hobby high!

This card came as part of a lot of 9 which was loaded with stars: 3 more HOFers, a couple of MVPs, numerous all stars, and a Red Sox common to top it off. Of the 9, I decided to keep 8 and sub 7 to PSA for my Venz registries. Here are the others I deemed sub-worthy:



Venz version of the 2nd year card and first solo Topps card of the HOFer later known as "Pops." I love this card, despite the tape stains.



Boyer was an MVP and, as we know, Bunning is in the HOF. Pascual was no slouch either



Pinson was another All Star. Geiger wasn't, but he was a member of my beloved Sox.



Weird to see Eddie Money in a Tigers uni, but he's still a HOFer (on the cheap). Pairs nicely with the 64 Venz Mathews I recently picked up.

The last 2 cards in the lot were 64's: a WS Game 4 (feat. Frank Howard) and a Clay Dalrymple. I'll keep the Howard, but it has a torn corner, so I don't want it in my registry. The Dalrymple will go on eBay unless somebody here wants to buy/trade.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Weird to see Eddie Money in a Tigers uni

Not as weird as Jack White.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

I once told my friend that the card below was the baseball card I wanted most for any of my projects. He responded with a couple of tough Yaz cards. I said fine, the most of any non-Yaz baseball card. 4 HOFers on one card. Mays and the Hammer. 1964 Venz, a set I collect. I thought I would never afford one, especially in better-than-poor condition. And then this happened:



Seriously a hobby high!

This card came as part of a lot of 9 which was loaded with stars: 3 more HOFers, a couple of MVPs, numerous all stars, and a Red Sox common to top it off. Of the 9, I decided to keep 8 and sub 7 to PSA for my Venz registries. Here are the others I deemed sub-worthy:



Venz version of the 2nd year card and first solo Topps card of the HOFer later known as "Pops." I love this card, despite the tape stains.



Boyer was an MVP and, as we know, Bunning is in the HOF. Pascual was no slouch either



Pinson was another All Star. Geiger wasn't, but he was a member of my beloved Sox.



Weird to see Eddie Money in a Tigers uni, but he's still a HOFer (on the cheap). Pairs nicely with the 64 Venz Mathews I recently picked up.

The last 2 cards in the lot were 64's: a WS Game 4 (feat. Frank Howard) and a Clay Dalrymple. I'll keep the Howard, but it has a torn corner, so I don't want it in my registry. The Dalrymple will go on eBay unless somebody here wants to buy/trade.

Congrats on the find! Right now I'm saving some money for the '68 VZ Aaron. That's my must get right now. I'm hoping I'll have the dough soon.

[DBesse27]

My latest 64 Venz has my main man on it:

[Mainstreetsportscards]

I have a 1968 Venezuelan Harmon Killebrew #220 PSA 8 coming back from PSA. I am hoping I can get some value help on this. Its a pop 1 and next highest is a PSA 5. I don't see many 8's on the market. I have a few people interested now so any help would be nice.

Thanks

[Thecafewha]

I've gotten every package so far from Venezuela but the last one "missed pick-up time" and was a week late.


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[Rrrlyons]

I buy a lot from Venezuelan sellers and my packages have varied from three days to three weeks. Twice they got hung up at the same located assuming it is a customs location and they can sit there for quite awhile but I have gotten every package eventually. Rick

[TheNightmanCometh]

Great news on the Venezuelan front. Tracking shows the card was picked up today and I should get it on Friday, so pictures will be forthcoming.

[Rrrlyons]

Picked up the 64 mick for my set down to five cards to finish the set. Rick

[Rrrlyons]

Back

[Rrrlyons]

Try again