Provenance of a Vintage Card - Share another Story

[T3s]

Hi Frank,

Thanks very much for your post. Really a pleasure to read and certainly interesting. Your efforts were worth it, right?

As another example, several months ago I was lucky enough to have a beautiful T3 Turkey Red find (search older posts). A few of the cards have writing on the back. A handful note "Reid Pleasant Drug" across the top. My assumption is that was a local drug store - several ways the cards could be attached to the store.

Best of all, one of the cards carries the signature of "Elias Beasley". Mr. Beasley was the original collector as a very young man. I purchased the cards from Mr. Beasley's grandson. During our negotiations for the cards, we talked a fair amount about the family and the story about how the cards were kept, owned, etc. I was very interested and wanted to find a way to preserve the collection (before some headed out to all corners of the earth) and document the provenance.

I went online to Walmart.com (not a plug) and created a beautiful photo book. Full color, full-sized scans of every card with brief commentary on each page, additional pictures and information on the set itself and it's provenance. Bound in black leather, about 50 pages, back and front on glossy paper. My point being that it is very classy looking and just as important, it was cheap! Provenance and original collection preserved.

I gave the seller two copies, one for each of his sons, and kept one for myself.

If anyone comes across a find of any size, I think it would be cool (and important) to document it as well as possible. Years from now, there will be collectors even more fanatic than we are who be thrilled to find this information.

Happy Collecting,
Craig Diamond

[frankbmd]

Thanks Craig, other stories like yours is what I was hoping to see. I asked my seller if they had more Tisdel cards, but the only response I got was "We only sell on Ebay, keep watching our auctions." At least I tried.

Thanks for your album idea.

[T206Collector]

I recently soaked a T206 card to remove a scrapbook scrap, and voila.... Nelson Tisdel's stamp was hiding underneath. Card was sold, but still think it was a neat discovery.

[Leon]

Here is an interesting thread if you want to read about my Trucker Boy find and a few other guys finds....

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ht=trucker+boy





.

[rp12367]

Originally Posted by T3s

Hi Frank,

Thanks very much for your post. Really a pleasure to read and certainly interesting. Your efforts were worth it, right?

As another example, several months ago I was lucky enough to have a beautiful T3 Turkey Red find (search older posts). A few of the cards have writing on the back. A handful note "Reid Pleasant Drug" across the top. My assumption is that was a local drug store - several ways the cards could be attached to the store.

Best of all, one of the cards carries the signature of "Elias Beasley". Mr. Beasley was the original collector as a very young man. I purchased the cards from Mr. Beasley's grandson. During our negotiations for the cards, we talked a fair amount about the family and the story about how the cards were kept, owned, etc. I was very interested and wanted to find a way to preserve the collection (before some headed out to all corners of the earth) and document the provenance.

I went online to Walmart.com (not a plug) and created a beautiful photo book. Full color, full-sized scans of every card with brief commentary on each page, additional pictures and information on the set itself and it's provenance. Bound in black leather, about 50 pages, back and front on glossy paper. My point being that it is very classy looking and just as important, it was cheap! Provenance and original collection preserved.

I gave the seller two copies, one for each of his sons, and kept one for myself.

If anyone comes across a find of any size, I think it would be cool (and important) to document it as well as possible. Years from now, there will be collectors even more fanatic than we are who be thrilled to find this information.

Happy Collecting,
Craig Diamond

Craig, I had a T206 with just Elias on it which makes sense now As soon as I saw the hand writting I knew it was the same. T206's are alot smaller, guess he didnt want to mess up the back to much and squeezed it in, I have since sold the card, but I may still have a scan, I will look and if I do i will post it for you.... Ralph

[ethicsprof]

great story!!!
I have wondered for some time about Elias written on the back of
one of my T206s and am pleased to know the story now, thanks to you.
Like Ralph, mine is just the Elias but is a definite match for the one you provide.
all the best,

barry

[T3s]

Ralph & Barry (and others?),

Very interesting information. Any scan would be great, as I'd really enjoy reaching out to the seller again with this new information about his grandfather. Post them here, or feel free to email me directly at mackeyd@mailcity.com

Best,
Craig

[frankbmd]

Craig,

I'm checking for Elias on my cards, so I can continue to be a part of this thread. Hopefully other stories will follow.

Frank

[Tsaiko]

Of course, my grandmother's collection (www.themaconpeach.com), but I've discussed it before in The Macon Find thread.
Still finding out things about her to add to her site.

Since I never received a reply about the backwards D card (Here: http://www.freewebs.com/thegreatt206...ct/gallery.htm), that I think belonged to my grandmother, I thought I'd try two other stamped back cards that were traded to my grandmother, bearing the initials of someone she probably traded with, to see if anyone recognizes them.

They were on the back of an Old Mill cabinet and a T3. Can anybody identify it? If so, then maybe we can figure out the provenance.
(Hope this isn't too OT)

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by T3s

Ralph & Barry (and others?),

Very interesting information. Any scan would be great, as I'd really enjoy reaching out to the seller again with this new information about his grandfather. Post them here, or feel free to email me directly at mackeyd@mailcity.com

Best,
Craig

Hi Craig,

I have always wondered who this Elias was and have seen quite a few "Elias" T206s over the past 7 years. Levi/707 Sportscards had a few on his website years ago. He still owns 2 that I saw while searching for some info for you. On one, the Elias has been erased, but the other still has it there. (see scan below). I see them every now & then on Ebay, but most of them look like someone has tried to remove the "Elias" from the back. If my memory serves me correct, most of the "Elias" T206s were Piedmont 350 backs.

Hope this helps you

Jantz

[RCMcKenzie]

t206tisdale.jpg

t206tisdaleb.jpg


Thanks to Corcoran guy for pointing to this one on ebay.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Attachment 84081

Attachment 84082


Thanks to Corcoran guy for pointing to this one on ebay.

I saw this listing but knew there is at least one Tisdel collector so I kept on scrolling, even though I need this card.

[z28jd]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

Attachment 84081

Attachment 84082


Thanks to Corcoran guy for pointing to this one on ebay.

Nice, I'm known by my quirky collection

I'm just glad you won and Frank didn't. I don't like hoarders and that is what he was trying to do...

[sandmountainslim]

I wish someone would solve the mystery of who stamped Purple Stars on their T206 cards

[Matt]

This PC with "Moonlight" (back row 3rd from left) was sent from his manager Hank Ramsey (also in photo) to Bill McCabe. Ramsey & McCabe were founders of the Hudson River League and managed together in the Hudson River League from 1903-1906. In 1907 Ramsey left to coach Scranton and the league folded mid-season.

In 1903, one of the more prominent citizens of Poughkeepsie, New York, was William A. McCabe. McCabe, the Chief of Police and "tenement" investor, had been a professional baseball player with the 1886 Poughkeepsie team in the old Hudson River League, primarily at second base, and had sponsored semi-professional teams in Poughkeepsie since the mid-1890's. McCabe had been acquainted with J. H. Farrell, President of the New York State League and Secretary of the National Association, for many years. In mid-March, McCabe and Farrell called a meeting "for the purpose of forming a league."

Working closely with these men was Henry D. Ramsey, a long-time minor league player and manager, who had been retained by the Kingston stock company as its manager for 1903. On March25 and again on April 1, meetings were held which resulted in forming the Hudson River Baseball League for 1903. Franchises were taken up by Ossining, Newburgh, Hudson and Saugerties, as well as Kingston and Poughkeepsie. Elected President was McCabe, Secretary was Ramsay, and Treasurer was Col. H. D. Claflin of Saugerties. Application was made to the National Association for the Class C classification; admission was received on May 5.

Ramsey's place in baseball history is for a player with a slightly more accomplished career then Graham (source):

Ramsey was born in 1869 at Paterson and was a manager of various minor league teams during a long and successful baseball career.' It was Ramsey who aided Hans Wagner to attain baseball fame and many critics have credited him with being the real discoverer of the great Honus.
It was said that Hank, as he was familiarly known, gave Wagner's brother, Al. Wagner, a baseball job in Paterson, and he in turn asked for a chance for brother Hans, which was given.

[iggyman]

I have a couple, but my W554 providence "do the cards talk to you(?)" story will always be my favorite:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...highlight=w554

Lovely Day...

[mybuddyinc]

We've seen a few "Theo V. Temple" exhibits over the years, but this *may* be his signature:

temple sig.jpg




Once, again, if S. Aff is on-line, I have your card:

sapp.jpg

[frankbmd]

Same story, same source, but some paper loss and a lot of scrapbook paper on the back ........ yesterday .

With two cards, I now consider myself a Tisdel collector.

[g_vezina_c55]

Nice story Frank .... i love the history of ownership etc behind card.... like many said, the historical value is better than the money value sometime...

I love to own pedigree card or a card with a special owner or history....

When i bought my T206 Plank i had to choose between 2 T206 Plank card. The fact i had the chance to afford the
L. Carter copy of Eddie Plank had a biggg influence in my choice...

nice story Frank ! thanks for sharing.

[T206Collector]

It is comforting to know that Eddie P. has found an appreciative home!

I recently posted about my T201 Leifield auto with Burdick provenance here:

http://net54baseball.com/showthread....hlight=Burdick

I really love learning about the travels of our old cardboard over the past century...

[edjs]

Originally Posted by T3s

Best of all, one of the cards carries the signature of "Elias Beasley". Mr. Beasley was the original collector as a very young man. I purchased the cards from Mr. Beasley's grandson. During our negotiations for the cards, we talked a fair amount about the family and the story about how the cards were kept, owned, etc. I was very interested and wanted to find a way to preserve the collection (before some headed out to all corners of the earth) and document the provenance.

I just got this card, and much to my surprise found "Elias" on the back. Is this the same guy, Craig?