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  #1  
Old 03-11-2018, 04:23 PM
Santo10Fan Santo10Fan is offline
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Default T206 HOF "Rookies"

Does anyone know which HOFers in the T206 Monster were rookies in 1909 or 1910? I'm planning on researching this in the coming days and wanted to know if you all had this knowledge offhand
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Old 03-11-2018, 07:23 PM
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From an earlier thread on Net54:

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Originally Posted by h2oya311 View Post
> Speaker - I have struggled with classifying his rookie card to date. Most have generally accepted that his t206 is his rookie card. But there are a few postcards that pre-date it: the 1908 Little Rock Travelers Team PC and the 1908-09 Rose Company Poscard (if it exists). Until recently, most would have considered the Novelty Cutlery PC to have pre-dated the t206 since it was categorized as having been issued from 1907-09. To date, no Novelty Cutlery PC's have had a cancellation date prior to 1910, which is why Jeff (bicem) believes them to be a 1910 issue.

> Wheat - here's an interesting one. There are several cabinet photos that pre-date his 1910 T206. There's a 1900's Kelso Studio Cabinet Card, a 1906 Prairie Roses Team Cabinet, and a 1906 Cabinet (showing him in a Union City uniform). For some reason, I have always though of the 1909-12 PX7 Sweet Caporal Domino Discs as his rookie card, but don't ask me why.

> Marquard - The T206 of Marquard (w/ 150 back / hands at side) is often thought to be his rookie card by collectors, although I would prefer the few minor league cards that pre-date his T206, namely the 1907 Canton Ohio Team PC and/or the 1908 Indianapolis PC (where he is incorrectly named "Charles Marquard"). Additionally, there is a 1908 Hall's Studio Cabinet of Marquard, although I'm not sure I've ever seen one before, I've only seen it checklisted. Obviously, there are a few concurrent cards from 1909, but not many, so I think it's okay to call the Marquard (hands at side / 150 series) a "rookie" card as well.

I don't think any other HOF player in the T206 set should be considered a rookie card other than the three listed above. Coming to a consensus on "true rookie" is a herculean effort that won't be resolved in this thread (or ever).

I'm not sure about any of the non-HOF players in the set, unfortunately.
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Old 03-11-2018, 08:22 PM
Rhotchkiss Rhotchkiss is online now
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I thought the e90-1 was Speaker’s “rookie card”, especially since he is series 350 in t206?
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Old 03-11-2018, 09:27 PM
tedzan tedzan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
I thought the e90-1 was Speaker’s “rookie card”, especially since he is series 350 in t206?

Ryan

Speaker's E90-1 card was issued in the last series (circa Summer/Fall 1910).

His T206 card is in the 350 series (issued circa Spring 1910).






TED Z

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Old 03-11-2018, 10:25 PM
Santo10Fan Santo10Fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T206Collector View Post
From an earlier thread on Net54:
Thanks a bunch I had wondered about Speaker especially
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:19 PM
dougscats dougscats is offline
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Default Frank Baker

Phil Garry lists Frank Baker's T206 [along with his Colgan's Chips and E90-1] as his rookie card, unless he's updated that list since I printed it out.
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougscats View Post
Phil Garry lists Frank Baker's T206 [along with his Colgan's Chips and E90-1] as his rookie card, unless he's updated that list since I printed it out.
Good point on Baker. Here's my list for earliest Baker cards/photos:

> 1905 Pocomoke Team PC (ML)
> 1908 Reading, PA Pretzels Team PC (ML - Tri-State League)
> 1908-09 Carl Horner Cabinets
> 1909 E91-B
> 1909 Colgan's Chips Square Proof
> 1909-11 E90-1
> 1909-11 E254 Colgan's Chips
> 1910-11 T206

The T206 Baker was issued with the 350-460 backs (and so I have it listed as 1910-11). Not sure if this is correct, but that's my understanding. The values of E90-1 and E91-B Bakers vs. other similar HOF players suggests that most collectors consider those to be his "standard" rookie cards. You could probably lump in the Colgan's Chips issue into this bucket as well.
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HOF "Earliest" Collection (Ideal - Indiv): 192/323 (59.4%)
1911 T332 Helmar Stamps.................: 177/180 (98.3%)
1914 T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps......: 95/118 (80.5%)
1923 V100 Willard's Choc...................: 88/180 (48.9%)

Last edited by h2oya311; 03-13-2018 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h2oya311 View Post
Good point on Baker. Here's my list for earliest Baker cards/photos:

> 1905 Pocomoke Team PC (ML)
> 1908 Reading, PA Pretzels Team PC (ML - Tri-State League)
> 1908-09 Carl Horner Cabinets
> 1909 E91-B
> 1909 Colgan's Chips Square Proof
> 1909-11 E90-1
> 1909-11 E254 Colgan's Chips
> 1910-11 T206

The T206 Baker was issued with the 350-460 backs (and so I have it listed as 1910-11). Not sure if this is correct, but that's my understanding. The values of E90-1 and E91-B Bakers vs. other similar HOF players suggests that most collectors consider those to be his "standard" rookie cards. You could probably lump in the Colgan's Chips issue into this bucket as well.
Good information. With so many pre-rookie cards it's hard to keep up!!
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:39 AM
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h2oya311 h2oya311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss View Post
I thought the e90-1 was Speaker’s “rookie card”, especially since he is series 350 in t206?
Here's my list of earliest Speaker cards/photos:

> 1908 Little Rock Travelers Team PC
> 1908 Little Rock Travelers Team Composite Photo
> 1908-09 Rose Company Postcards (unconfirmed)
> 1909-11 E90-1
> 1909 Sporting News Supplement
> 1909-10 Carl Horner Cabinet

I don't even include the T206 as it would be a 1910 issue, despite the fact that the T206 is what several "rookie" card collectors go after.
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HOF "Earliest" Collection (Ideal - Indiv): 192/323 (59.4%)
1911 T332 Helmar Stamps.................: 177/180 (98.3%)
1914 T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps......: 95/118 (80.5%)
1923 V100 Willard's Choc...................: 88/180 (48.9%)

Last edited by h2oya311; 03-14-2018 at 10:40 AM.
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  #10  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:42 AM
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h2oya311 h2oya311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Good information. With so many pre-rookie cards it's hard to keep up!!
Thanks Leon. I think I need to re-surface Phil's work on this "earliest collectibles" project and add in some of my additional findings to fill in the gaps. I'm sure I have a few holes in my research, but probably not many!
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HOF "Earliest" Collection (Ideal - Indiv): 192/323 (59.4%)
1911 T332 Helmar Stamps.................: 177/180 (98.3%)
1914 T330-2 Piedmont Art Stamps......: 95/118 (80.5%)
1923 V100 Willard's Choc...................: 88/180 (48.9%)
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