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  #41  
Old 07-24-2017, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clydepepper View Post
see Steve Carlton?
Not at all analogous, a few garbage seasons at an advanced age. Jones fell apart at 30. Plus are you seriously comparing a 329 game winner with 4 CYAs to Andruw Jones in terms of Hall qualifications?
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-24-2017 at 11:20 AM.
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  #42  
Old 07-24-2017, 11:26 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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Defensive stats are to me generally nonsense for outfielders. For infielders, they're a bit better because there are fewer missed events because of the nature of the game.

For outfielders, there are a lot more of what I called missed events above. Those are the things that don't happen because a player is better defensively, and that non-happening doesn't generate a stat.
The clearest example is a runner either not running, or not taking an extra base. That's more common in smaller parks, but is especially common with players who throw well. Like Dwight Evans or Ichiro.

I don't think they take the park into account much either. Sure, it's generally not an issue for guys that played in the 70's average sized symmetrical parks, but even good fielders have occasionally looked foolish in Fenway.

Steve B
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  #43  
Old 07-24-2017, 12:27 PM
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In a general sense I think that can be true but anyone who watched Andruw Jones play knows he was the best defensive center fielder of his time, and maybe even all time. I don't think generalities apply to a player like him.
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  #44  
Old 07-25-2017, 08:59 PM
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[quote=Peter_Spaeth;1683766]Not at all analogous, a few garbage seasons at an advanced age. Jones fell apart at 30. Plus are you seriously comparing a 329 game winner with 4 CYAs to Andruw Jones in terms of Hall qualifications?[/QUOTE]


Not at all. Just tossing out a general comparison about declining years of any career can leave a lasting impression and still wishing that Carlton had heard the voices of reason a little earlier...it was so ugly. My own career ended much the same way, not that anyone noticed...it was a miserable thing to experience and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
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  #45  
Old 07-26-2017, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Not at all analogous, a few garbage seasons at an advanced age. Jones fell apart at 30. Plus are you seriously comparing a 329 game winner with 4 CYAs to Andruw Jones in terms of Hall qualifications?
He didn't "fall apart" he posted wRC+ of 96, 121,132 and 89 over his last 4 seasons. as 100 is avg, his last 4 seasons he was still 10% above avg hitter.

This is why using the traditional stats can be so misleading as they don't give a very deep portrait of production.

you want to talk garbage, look at Pete Rose's last 7 years, I think his total fWAR for those years is under 1

ETA: it was 1.2 total over last 7 years
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Last edited by bravos4evr; 07-26-2017 at 04:09 PM.
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  #46  
Old 07-26-2017, 07:45 PM
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If Cobb had had 5000 hits Rose would probably still be playing today trying to catch him. Yeah, he clearly hung on too long but I guess with the special circumstances it's understandable.

I just hope ARod once J Lo dumps him or vice versa doesn't decide he still has it in him to catch Bonds.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-26-2017 at 07:47 PM.
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  #47  
Old 07-26-2017, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
If Cobb had had 5000 hits Rose would probably still be playing today trying to catch him. Yeah, he clearly hung on too long but I guess with the special circumstances it's understandable.


Clearly...do you see this coming down main street?...he was going against the odds.

?
?
?

I just hope ARod once J Lo dumps him or vice versa doesn't decide he still has it in him to catch Bonds.
Now, I wouldn't mind seeing that happen...

Then bonds could come back and have a heart attack trying to regain what he thought he had...couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

?
?
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  #48  
Old 07-26-2017, 11:03 PM
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Understanding it's early, Nolan Arenado may be the best player in baseball not named Mike Trout. Going into this season, he would have appeared to have a 50/50 chance at the hall of fame:

Arenado just completed his age-25 season. The magic number here is 18. That means that 50 percent of the position players who had accumulated at least 18 rWAR through age 25 have made it into the Hall of Fame

He has done nothing at all to hurt that argument this year. Excellent hitter and a defensive 3rd baseman that is reminescent of Brooks Robinson.
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  #49  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbcard1 View Post
Understanding it's early, Nolan Arenado may be the best player in baseball not named Mike Trout. Going into this season, he would have appeared to have a 50/50 chance at the hall of fame:

Arenado just completed his age-25 season. The magic number here is 18. That means that 50 percent of the position players who had accumulated at least 18 rWAR through age 25 have made it into the Hall of Fame

He has done nothing at all to hurt that argument this year. Excellent hitter and a defensive 3rd baseman that is reminescent of Brooks Robinson.
At least this year, his home vs away stats are quite skewed. Hitting almost 50 points higher at home. 54 RBI vs. 35. Homers are pretty even.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 07-27-2017 at 09:16 AM.
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  #50  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:57 AM
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They put Chuck Klein in the HOF. There's room for guys who play well at home.
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