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  #1  
Old 01-18-2019, 07:52 AM
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ullmandds ullmandds is offline
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Default Reasons why prices of some vintage cards are going kinda CRAZY????

Can we have a logical discussion as to why some cards...t206 Green Cobbs, T206 WAJO/cy young portraits, TY Cobb postcards, most babe ruth cards...are going kinda insane very rapidly.

I do not believe that a few zillionaires are entering the hobby as an alternative way to "invest" their riches...I just don't believe it! Is it possible some are buying up as many copies of a given card as possible so as to try to manipulate the market...ABSOLUTELY!!!! IT's already been done with some cards.


The rise in some of these cards does make sense...like cobb postcards...they are super scarce in many cases...and are considered cobb rookies

Ruth cards...many of these instances make sense...again these cards are pretty tough...as compared to cards like T206 and 50's topps rookies...and demand is sky high.

The T206 rises...just don't make sense to me. It sure looks, smells...and feels like a mania...similar to what was happening to marijuana stocks late last year.

Let's discuss please.

I tried to make a poll...didn't work!!!!

Last edited by ullmandds; 01-18-2019 at 07:59 AM.
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  #2  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:08 AM
packs packs is offline
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People have probably just realized that the T206 Johnson portrait and Cy Young portraits are great looking cards. You can look high and low through any other issues of theirs you want, but it's going to be hard (in my opinion) to find a better example to show off a legendary player.

Even their secondary cards from less collected sets that bare similar images sell for strong prices. I'm thinking of the Ramly Johnson and the E-90 Young. Same is true for other players. The Speaker T206 is kind of a turd image-wise and even though the E-90 Speaker is far more scarce, I firmly believe that all things being equal the E-90 would always outsell the T206 because it just looks nicer.

Beauty matters in all things. I think the Lajoie with bat card is the next to take off. Find a better looking card of Lajoie.

Last edited by packs; 01-18-2019 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:46 AM
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People have probably just realized that the T206 Johnson portrait and Cy Young portraits are great looking cards. You can look high and low through any other issues of theirs you want, but it's going to be hard (in my opinion) to find a better example to show off a legendary player.

Even their secondary cards from less collected sets that bare similar images sell for strong prices. I'm thinking of the Ramly Johnson and the E-90 Young. Same is true for other players. The Speaker T206 is kind of a turd image-wise and even though the E-90 Speaker is far more scarce, I firmly believe that all things being equal the E-90 would always outsell the T206 because it just looks nicer.

Beauty matters in all things. I think the Lajoie with bat card is the next to take off. Find a better looking card of Lajoie.
The cards have been around for 100 years. People are just realizing they are attractive? Makes no sense.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
The cards have been around for 100 years. People are just realizing they are attractive? Makes no sense.
Maybe, as Steve said above, cards really are starting to be a legitimate part of a financial portfolio? That could explain some of the rise in prices of the best looking cards.
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Old 01-18-2019, 09:03 AM
MichelaiTorres83 MichelaiTorres83 is offline
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Maybe, as Steve said above, cards really are starting to be a legitimate part of a financial portfolio? That could explain some of the rise in prices of the best looking cards.
It definitely is. In order to assemble a decent t206 set in PSA 3, your going to spend what, 100 thousand dollars? Bump that to 5s and 6s and you are in the McMansion investment range when your collection might just be worth more than your house.

They have been investments for a long time. Only recently are people talking about it.

How many people here have collections over 1,2,300k a million dollars? I am willing to bet there are several hundreds of people.
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Old 01-18-2019, 09:32 AM
barrysloate barrysloate is offline
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Maybe, as Steve said above, cards really are starting to be a legitimate part of a financial portfolio? That could explain some of the rise in prices of the best looking cards.
Investors have been putting together baseball card portfolios for as long as I can remember, so there is nothing new there.
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2019, 09:49 AM
100backstroke 100backstroke is offline
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Over the last 10 years the DOW has had its greatest historical increase. The national unemployment rate has moved to a very low level, lowest in many years. The supply of investment quality cards isn't going up. These 3 factors could have significant impact on the price of "good" cards.
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  #8  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:19 AM
packs packs is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
The cards have been around for 100 years. People are just realizing they are attractive? Makes no sense.
Makes no sense? How else do you explain the disparity between the Red Cobb and the Green Cobb other than one looks nicer than the other? How else do you explain the disparity between action poses and portraits other than the portraits are nicer looking cards? Why does the E-90 Cy Young card sell for so much money? You don't think it has anything to do with the image on the card?

My point is that aesthetics could be playing a larger role in collecting today whereas rarity or types could have been the motivating force behind past sales. I don't care about rarity anymore. I want NICE cards. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Last edited by packs; 01-18-2019 at 10:25 AM.
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  #9  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:32 AM
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Actually I don't think, relative to other cards, the E90-1 Young portrait sells for a lot. I think it's still an affordable (for now) and great looking card. The best looking cards are definitely being gobbled up and their prices reflect it.

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Makes no sense? How else do you explain the disparity between the Red Cobb and the Green Cobb other than one looks nicer than the other? How else do you explain the disparity between action poses and portraits other than the portraits are nicer looking cards? Why does the E-90 Cy Young card sell for so much money? You don't think it has anything to do with the image on the card?

My point is that aesthetics could be playing a larger role in collecting today whereas rarity or types could have been the motivating force behind past sales. I don't care about rarity anymore. I want NICE cards. I'm sure I'm not alone.
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:37 AM
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Actually I don't think, relative to other cards, the E90-1 Young portrait sells for a lot. I think it's still an affordable (for now) and great looking card. The best looking cards are definitely being gobbled up and their prices reflect it.

I don't see how one could argue against that idea. Any card depicting the Horner portrait of Wagner sells at a considerable premium, even the Colgan Chip, because it features an iconic image.

Why can't there be room for aesthetics to drive prices?
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
Makes no sense? How else do you explain the disparity between the Red Cobb and the Green Cobb other than one looks nicer than the other? How else do you explain the disparity between action poses and portraits other than the portraits are nicer looking cards? Why does the E-90 Cy Young card sell for so much money? You don't think it has anything to do with the image on the card?

My point is that aesthetics could be playing a larger role in collecting today whereas rarity or types could have been the motivating force behind past sales. I don't care about rarity anymore. I want NICE cards. I'm sure I'm not alone.
I absolutely agree about image. I'm just saying it can't, to me, explain price increases because the same cards always have been nice. What made no sense to me was your thesis that this was somehow a recent discovery.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 01-18-2019 at 10:41 AM.
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:41 AM
packs packs is offline
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I absolutely agree about image. I'm just saying it can't, to me, explain price increases because the same cards always have been nice.
But maybe they hadn't been collected for the aesthetic. That's my point. There could have been other motivating factors for why the prices were down. If you pay for rarity, then you weren't paying up for a T206 Johnson portrait in the past.
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packs View Post
Makes no sense? How else do you explain the disparity between the Red Cobb and the Green Cobb other than one looks nicer than the other? How else do you explain the disparity between action poses and portraits other than the portraits are nicer looking cards? Why does the E-90 Cy Young card sell for so much money? You don't think it has anything to do with the image on the card?

My point is that aesthetics could be playing a larger role in collecting today whereas rarity or types could have been the motivating force behind past sales. I don't care about rarity anymore. I want NICE cards. I'm sure I'm not alone.
I didn't know that the Green Cobb looked nicer than the Red Cobb. This is news to me.
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:37 AM
MichelaiTorres83 MichelaiTorres83 is offline
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I didn't know that the Green Cobb looked nicer than the Red Cobb. This is news to me.
It depends on the person. There is a lot of green in the world. Blue and green are the most prevelant colors. Our minds have evolved to be receptive of color and use color to help judge and make decisions.


https://smallbiztrends.com/2014/06/p...of-colors.html
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2019, 06:38 PM
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I didn't know that the Green Cobb looked nicer than the Red Cobb. This is news to me.
It don't and it isn't even close for me. The Red Cobb is by far the most beautiful card in the set to me.

Not a big pre-war guy but hope to someday own a beater Red Cobb. Are there any other sets with the same pose?
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  #16  
Old 01-18-2019, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
The cards have been around for 100 years. People are just realizing they are attractive? Makes no sense.
+1. Also I think the Young portrait is maybe the ugliest portrait card in the entire set.
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  #17  
Old 01-18-2019, 02:55 PM
Throttlesteer Throttlesteer is offline
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"Attractive" is an opinion. I like the bat off Cobb better than the others. I prefer the Lajoie throwing over the with bat and portrait. Honestly, no one of Cy's T206s are particularly attractive. The portrait is ok, the hand showing is colorful, but a bit awkward, and then there's the milkman (as someone coined it) glove pose. I think the hobby is reacting much like investors do to "hot" sticks. The late adopters are paying high for cards that are solid for the grade. You can still find portraits for reasonable prices if centering and razor corners aren't your thing.
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  #18  
Old 01-18-2019, 03:47 PM
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FWIW. Years back I had most major T206 HOFers and all their poses. They were all PSA 5's. I sold 3 and have kept all the others. I sold the Young bare hand and the Young glove because I didn't like the artwork on either. And I sold the Matty dark cap because it was a mega print. The artwork on the Johnson hands chest looks nice (to me) and think it may be currently undervalued. The Matty white cap pose is same as dark cap, but much tougher to find, and may also be undervalued, so that's a keeper. If I felt like having doubles, those 2 would be the ones I would look for.
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Old 01-18-2019, 09:42 PM
griffon512 griffon512 is offline
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Quote: darwinbulldog
The cards have been around for 100 years. People are just realizing they are attractive? Makes no sense.
+1. Also I think the Young portrait is maybe the ugliest portrait card in the entire set.

interesting glenn, young portrait is one of my favorites

Last edited by griffon512; 01-18-2019 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 01-18-2019, 10:20 PM
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I've always loved the Young Port too. He looks very dignified.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:13 AM
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Well obviously multi-factorial, including some aspect of fraud and manipulation. But I do think that people like Brett from PWCC and Goldin and others have done a great job pimping baseball cards as a great investment the past decade. I've seen people on Power Lunch on CNBC taking baseball cards and memorabilia. And no doubt for some people and some cards it has been an amazing run. When I'm investigating purchasing a high end Ruth or Gehrig card and figure I might spend $12,000 for it, I do some research and find the same card sold at REA in Spring 2017 for $950 and scream "holy sh*t." Some people, and not those hoarding Jose Canseco rookie cards, have made a lot of money on vintage sports cards. And if you are a man between the ages of 40-80 with disposable income, it's not outrageous in my view to think of rare sports cards to be (small) part of a diversified portfolio of investments. And like stocks I think people try to hunt out the next big thing to run.

I know "diversified portfolio of investments" in the same paragraph as vintage cards will chap some people's behind but so be it.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 01-18-2019 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:16 AM
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Well obviously multi-factorial, including some aspect of fraud and manipulation. But I do think that people like Brett from PWCC and Goldin and others have done a great job pimping baseball cards as a great investment the past decade. I've seen people on Power Lunch on CNBC taking baseball cards and memorabilia. And no doubt for some people and some cards it has been an amazing run. When I'm investigating purchasing a high end Ruth or Gehrig card and figure I might spend $12,000 for it, I do some research and find the same card sold at REA in Spring 2017 for $950 and scream "holy sh*t." Some people, and not those hoarding Jose Canseco rookie cards, have made a lot of money on vintage sports cards. And if you are a man between the ages of 40-80 with disposable income, it's not outrageous in my view to think of rare sports cards to be (small) part of a diversified portfolio of investments. And like stocks I think people try to hunt out the next big thing to run.

I know "diversified portfolio of investments" in the same paragraph as vintage cards will chap some people's behind but so be it.
Totally agree regarding some/many ruth/cobb postcards...in recent years some/many of these have gone up 10-20 times in value in 1-2 years.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:25 AM
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So...here’s a great sidebar question. What do these cards look like 5 or 10 years from now?? Do they hold steady, because people have them stashed and aren’t moving them? Do they “bottom out” again to 2017 or before prices due to lack of interest? Or do they steadily increase due to less supply and continued demand??

These types of conversations are always great!

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Old 01-18-2019, 08:36 AM
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So...here’s a great sidebar question. What do these cards look like 5 or 10 years from now?? Do they hold steady, because people have them stashed and aren’t moving them? Do they “bottom out” again to 2017 or before prices due to lack of interest? Or do they steadily increase due to less supply and continued demand??

These types of conversations are always great!

Have a beautiful day!


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I don't know and no one here does. There will be doom and gloom types who will say we are on the edge of the precipice about to tumble over. But those voices have always been present. It's like asking if the DOW will be higher in 5 or 10 years. It certainly could be. Or maybe it won't. I do think there will be players who interest will steadily wane over time. But the top names have held as American icons for 100 years some of them. I don't see why their star would dull in 5-10 years.

Last edited by Snapolit1; 01-18-2019 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
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I don't know and no one here does. There will be doom and gloom types who will say we are on the edge of the precipice about to tumble over. But those voices have always been present. It's like asking if the DOW will be higher in 5 or 10 years. It certainly could be. Or maybe it won't. I do think there will be players who interest will steadily wane over time. But the top names have held as American icons for 100 years some of them. I don't see why their star would dull in 5-10 years.


Oh I understand no one knows, I was more thinking of the fun of speculation. In my opinion, some of these cards come back in a year or 2 and realize similar increase in pricings, and some of these cards never see the light of day again.

I have friends who have PSA 10’s of 50’s and 60’s stars that will never see the market, or at least for the next 20+ years. There is a lot more of that going on than people think.


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Old 01-18-2019, 08:48 AM
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As stated, it's a combination of factors. Demand is the number one reason, and there is no question that baseball cards and memorabilia have been a very popular collectable. Also, no question there is price manipulation and hoarding going on. Where there is money to be made, there will always be unsavory people involved.

Also third party grading has been a huge factor in escalating prices. We would never have all the so-called investors in the hobby without the slabs. In fact, the single greatest factor in price escalation, IMO, is the number printed on the label.

This has pretty much always been an overheated market, where the must-have-it-now mentality often rules. For me, it has taken much of the fun out. It's become too commodified and less of a relaxing hobby. Cards are too expensive. That's not to say they can't go higher, but I've discovered I can live happily without them.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:48 PM
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I do not believe that a few zillionaires are entering the hobby as an alternative way to "invest" their riches...I just don't believe it!
A very close friend of mine, who works in finance in NYC, inherited a house from his dad. He sold the house and put all of that money in the stock market...did well there for a few years, then just recently took $108K of that money and bought the Cobb/Cobb T206 in REA. That's saying something. He, a well-versed financial person, sees so much potential in investing in cards, that he made such a move.
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Old 01-18-2019, 08:51 PM
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Definitely T206 only investors. I don't see 1930s cards skyrocketing. Quite opposite.
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