What do you think of this Heritage offering?

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Seriously and in all Fairness to the parties involved with regards to the authenticity of the ball , I don't think anyone including myself can say its a "slam dunk" Call one way or the other without actually physically examining it in person.

But as I stated in a previous post I would hope that on such a high dollar ticket as this that all due diligence was used with regards to provenance. And maybe or probably it was.

With ready access to census records, City Directories etc. the person or persons who made their determination, should have been able to back track almost to the source. Thats 90% of the work....then after thats complete and only after that is complete and CONCRETE...Examination of the actual item is obviously necessary but secondary
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jim@stinsonsports.com

I hate to have to quote myself but this seems to have generated into a murky, heated, and controversial subject not to mention one of the longest threads I've ever seen on this board. I am not defending or attacking anyone. EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion. And anyone can spend their money how they like and where they like. Its cynical but at the end of the day maybe its not a case of how good a DEAL you got but how good a deal you THINK you got.
BUT ...I have said this before what an autograph LOOKS like is the first and ultimately last step in a series of steps, leading to a determination of authenticity. The very, very good forgers can fool ANYONE based on looks alone (Counterfeiters can draw twenty dollar bank notes FREEHAND) and they have found a very lucrative nitch in the field of autograph collecting because all of the parties involved WANT an expensive museum quality item to be real.
So looking at the autograph in question is the first step, some are so off base they immediately go to the trash heap , This ball is NOT one of those (as evidenced by this debate) So then comes the fun part Research , looking at subtle intangibles like labeling, format, etc. Then using the various "authentication secrets" that inevitably every good autograph collector/dealer/authenticator is going to learn over the course of his lifetime (The ones he won't share with anyone....THOSE secrets), then morph into Philip Marlowe and do the hard core detective work and back track to the source , If the trail goes COLD, that speaks volumnes and you PASS case closed.
If it dosen't you trudge on, until eventually you are able to prove your case to any critic with evidence a mile long. Done properly you'd make any critic look like a fool. Then finally the last step is LOOKING at the item again to confirm what research has already proven to you and then and only then , you make your determination. Which by now is no longer an "opinion" its a fact.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

[mighty bombjack]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Which by now is no longer an "opinion" its a fact.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

Great post.

So the thing left to ask is this: While it seems you yourself sell only what you deem to be "facts," what is your opinion of Heritage selling what seems to be an "opinion"?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

Great post.

So the thing left to ask is this: While it seems you yourself sell only what you deem to be "facts," what is your opinion of Heritage selling what seems to be an "opinion"?

<Ray Charles picture>

[RichardSimon]

The Nash story, on his website, about Heritage includes nine other items.
My opinion is that I agree with what he has said and disagree with the COA's issued by the TPA's.
What do you guys think about these other items in the auction that Nash has discussed?
There have been many opinions expressed on the board about Nash, pro and con.
Let us just discuss the items.
http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=17835#more-17835

[Runscott]

Agreed - Jim's post is a great one (like many in this thread). I don't see the 'heat' as all that bad...yet - nothing like some of the autograph threads have turned into.

Thanks Shelly and David, for your comments. I have been collecting autographs for about ten years, but most of that time it just amounted to studying and comparing them. Ruth and Gehrig have always bothered me, primarily because I would like to eventually own something signed by each, but the comfort level has rarely been there for the affordable ones.

The following by Jim is something I wanted to say as well, but I didn't want Chris or David to think I was referring to them (I wouldn't have been). But I think it's the reason that the authenticators get away with shoddy work, and why the auction houses patronize us. By the way, the bold part of that last sentence is what pisses me off more than anything. They don't want to take the time to do due diligence, but they dismiss the opinions of those who do.

"all of the parties involved WANT an expensive museum quality item to be real."

I don't authenticate autographs, so I have the benefit of being able to 'stop' looking when I get to the point where I've decided the item doesn't look good enough for me to want; however, if I ran an auction house I would not accept items I felt uncomfortable with, even if I thought they might be real - unless it was just 'presentability' that got me to that point.

[shelly]

This ball was authenticated in 2002 and sold for 86 thousand. No matter what, neither one of them could change there minds. What do you think would happen if they did that.
That is why I feel that Heritage should have someone else look at the ball. That way there would be no conflict of interest. When I say someone else I mean anyone that has never worked or has any interest in Heritage. As most of you have pointed out there are some very good people on this site.
I keep on saying this but look how many pieces have been found to be bad. Why for this kind of money would you not try and make sure that every I is dotted and every t is crossed.
Richard also brings up a good point. There are nine other items in question. Do any of you have opinions on them?