Clayton Kershaw

[Dewey]

80-0 when given 4+ run support.

Only three times in the last 100 years has a pitcher had 3 consecutive games with 10+ k and no walks. Kershaw has two of those. The best!

[KCRfan1]

He's the best arm in the game, and worth every penny of his contract. Barring any injury, he will go down as one of the best in the history of the sport.

[HRBAKER]

I'm a fan and he seems like a decent guy too.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

He's the best arm in the game, and worth every penny of his contract. Barring any injury, he will go down as one of the best in the history of the sport.

May be a little biased but there's another guy named Chris Sale who's pitched for some pretty poor teams.

And if you're talking pennies his contract is probably as good as you can possibly get.

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

I think I have to say that Kershaw is now the best I've ever seen. Better than Pedro, better than Maddux. It's just unbelievable that he's getting even better now.

Better than Johnson???

[Dewey]

Kershaw: 5 straight games with 10+ K. In that time only one walk. This is fun to watch. His curve has been sick.

[clydepepper]

Strikeout to Walk Ratio is now 24.75 to 1 !



Correction (though Bill already saw it) 22:1 - I added the last game twice.
.

[the 'stache]

His K:BB ratio is 22:1. Still outstanding.

And Sale is very good, but he's not on the same level Kershaw is.

Kershaw over the last 5 1/4 seasons:

94-34 (.734 win pct), 2.09 ERA, 22 CG, 13 SHO, 1,198 IP, 1,337 K, 246 BB, 0.919 WHIP, 6.4 H/9 IP, 0.5 HR/9 IP, 2.27 FIP, 1.8 BB/9 IP, 10.0 K/9 IP, 5.44 K:BB

Match that against Pedro's best six seasons, from 1997 to 2002:

104-32 (.765 win pct), 2.20 ERA, 31 CG, 11 SHO, 1,221 IP, 1,555 K, 268 BB, 0.925 WHIP, 6.4 H/9 IP, 0.6 HR/9 IP, 2.27 FIP, 2.0 BB/9 IP, 11.5 K/9 IP, 5.80 K:BB

Their numbers are very similar. Kershaw's ERA is slightly better, but Pedro pitched in the AL, which has more offense. Interestingly enough, they have identical FIPs, 2.27. Pedro has an edge, of course, in ERA +, 213 to 175. They give up the same hits and home runs per 9 IP. Kershaw walks slightly fewer batters, Pedro struck out more batters.

Kershaw is already 7th all-time in Cy Young shares (3.82). Martinez is 5th (4.26). It will be interesting to see if Kershaw wins his fourth Cy Young in six seasons. It's him and Arreta so far, and right now, Kershaw has the lead.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

May be a little biased but there's another guy named Chris Sale who's pitched for some pretty poor teams.

And if you're talking pennies his contract is probably as good as you can possibly get.




Better than Johnson???

Josh,

I'll stand by the first quote.

You will have to show me the second quote that I supposedly made, since I never made that quote. Kind of anxious to find out what I " said "!

I'm referring to post #33.

Lou

[the 'stache]

Lou, I was the one that made that quote about Kershaw being the best I've ever seen. I don't know why he's attributing it to you; perhaps you quoted me in one of your responses? I look at Kershaw's being a lefty, and that's what gives him the edge, for me.

And yes, that includes Johnson. Johnson had 130 starts before he became a dominant starter. Early in his career, he had a ridiculous walks per 9 innings pitched rate. The Big Unit didn't have a good season until 1993, his fifth year in the league. Now, he went on to have a sensational career, obviously. But Kershaw had a 144 ERA + in his second season. Johnson didn't equal that until his sixth season. And Kershaw is as good now as Johnson ever was.

[KCRfan1]

If you made the quote, then I'm in good company Bill!

Kershaw still has a ways to go to put up career numbers like Johnson, but thus far in their careers, Kershaw is better than Johnson.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Josh,

I'll stand by the first quote.

You will have to show me the second quote that I supposedly made, since I never made that quote. Kind of anxious to find out what I " said "!

I'm referring to post #33.

Lou

I believe that I misquoted you as the person who said something someone else said.................

[Joshchisox08]

Sale 9-0
doesn't face pitchers
But we're still talking about Kershaw................


Wonder what it would be like if Sale had been on a good team like Kershaw has most of his career. And then the whole pitching against a pitcher thing.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Dewey

80-0 when given 4+ run support.

Only three times in the last 100 years has a pitcher had 3 consecutive games with 10+ k and no walks. Kershaw has two of those. The best!

10/3/14 Kershaw was given 6 runs (Dodgers scored 9 in game) but Kershaw allowed 8 earned runs and lost.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

10/3/14 Kershaw was given 6 runs (Dodgers scored 9 in game) but Kershaw allowed 8 earned runs and lost.

Playoff game wasn't it.

[chaddurbin]

i used to be a billingsley guy when they first came up but i've come around on kershaw. we've always known he was special long before, but he's about the perfect baseball player on and off the field. ferocious competitor always working to improve his game and gain an edge, whether a new pitch or batting. has his faith but doesn't have the holier-than-thou attitude. builds schools and churches in africa, but you'll never hear him toot his own horn or have a big national story written about him...he pretty much ignores his own local station that carries the dodgers games.

[Dewey]

Yup.

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Playoff game wasn't it.

[the 'stache]

I think I have to say that Kershaw is now the best I've ever seen. Better than Pedro, better than Maddux. It's just unbelievable that he's getting even better now.

In the past five years, he's won three Cy Young Awards, was runner up once, and finished third place last year. And this year? He's showing a career-best 218 ERA +. He's struck out 77 batters, and has walked 4 in 8 starts. He's walking one batter every other game, lol. His WHIP right now is 0.726. He's striking out 11.2 batters per 9 IP.

Get this card, guys, while it's still semi-affordable.



When I get my dental work paid off, the first thing I'm doing is selling mine, and upgrading it to a Beckett-graded. My card is sharp, but the centering is off a little left to right, and there's a slight diamond cut on the left and right edges.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

I think I have to say that Kershaw is now the best I've ever seen. Better than Pedro, better than Maddux. It's just unbelievable that he's getting even better now.

In the past five years, he's won three Cy Young Awards, was runner up once, and finished third place last year. And this year? He's showing a career-best 218 ERA +. He's struck out 77 batters, and has walked 4 in 8 starts. He's walking one batter every other game, lol. His WHIP right now is 0.726. He's striking out 11.2 batters per 9 IP.

Get this card, guys, while it's still semi-affordable.



When I get my dental work paid off, the first thing I'm doing is selling mine, and upgrading it to a Beckett-graded. My card is sharp, but the centering is off a little left to right, and there's a slight diamond cut on the left and right edges.

I respectfully disagree. As much as I would like to have a fellow southpaw at the head of the pack, I believe Pedro Martinez was the best I've ever seen...and there is more of a gap between he and the next three (Maddux, RJ and Kershaw) than between the Maddux, Johnson and Kershaw.

Pedro was at his most dominant when hitters were at their most dominant. At 170 pounds, it was absolutely difficult to believe even when watching. He also shared the stage with Maddux, Johnson and PEDClemens.

It's easy to forget what an offensive game it was when Pedro and Maddux pitched. Much more offense than now.


.

[TUM301]

Have to agree with Ray on this one, Pedro M. was the best pitcher I ever saw. Kershaw surely is tough and certainly a case can be made he`s the best pitcher in today`s game. Maybe I`m jaded living in the Boston area and having seen most of Pedro`s starts, but anyone that pitched the the 1990`s when 40 bombs was "eh so what" and made half his in the A L East and still flirted with an ERA around 2.00, WOW. Lastly, when the old timers tell me Pedro was the nearest to Koufax in their hay days that says a lot. Sorry to hijack the thread but these discussions are very fun and interesting. My 2 cents..........

[howard38]

I also agree with Raymond. I'd love to see what Pedro could have done if he pitched today. Since ERA+ was brought up I'd point out that Kershaw's career high of 218 in a quarter of a season doesn't even approach Pedro's career best in a full season.

[Peter_Spaeth]

He has walked 4 batters in 62 innings. It is unfathomable.

[the 'stache]

Respectfully, what other level is there for him to go to? Since the start of 2014, he's 43-11 with a 1.92 ERA, 628 Ks vs 78 BB, he's given up 27 home runs in 501 innings pitched. His WHIP the past three years is 0.846; his FIP is 1.83. He's allowing 6.2 hits/9 IP, walking 1.4 batters while striking out 11.3. His K:BB ratio is a ridiculous 8.16:1.

Pedro had one season in his career with a FIP under two: 1.39 in 1999. Kershaw is carrying a 1.83 FIP over 500 + innings the past three seasons.

If you ask me, his 187 ERA + since the start of 2014 seems low, as does his 225 ERA + this season. He's struck out 88 batters in 70 innings...while walking 4 guys. Four. He has A 1.67 era. His WHIP is 0.700. Are you kidding me?

In four May starts, he's 4-0 with a 0.82 ERA; 48 Ks in 33 IP, and 1 walk. His WHIP in May is 0.576.

He should be 8-1 right now.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Respectfully, what other level is there for him to go to? Since the start of 2014, he's 43-11 with a 1.92 ERA, 628 Ks vs 78 BB, he's given up 27 home runs in 501 innings pitched. His WHIP the past three years is 0.846; his FIP is 1.83. He's allowing 6.2 hits/9 IP, walking 1.4 batters while striking out 11.3. His K:BB ratio is a ridiculous 8.16:1.

Pedro had one season in his career with a FIP under two: 1.39 in 1999. Kershaw is carrying a 1.83 FIP over 500 + innings the past three seasons.

If you ask me, his 187 ERA + since the start of 2014 seems low, as does his 225 ERA + this season. He's struck out 88 batters in 70 innings...while walking 4 guys. Four. He has A 1.67 era. His WHIP is 0.700. Are you kidding me?

In four May starts, he's 4-0 with a 0.82 ERA; 48 Ks in 33 IP, and 1 walk. His WHIP in May is 0.576.

He should be 8-1 right now.

Exactly my point. What we are witnessing right now is probably the best Kershaw will be.

After peaking (sans PEDs) almost all players digress toward retirement.

Hence, their career figures are not as good as their peaks...which is why they call them that, I guess.

I'm all about celebrating Kershaw especially since he's a lefty, but Pedro is still the best I ever saw.


.

[the 'stache]

What I meant to say was not that Kershaw couldn't pitch any better, but that I didn't see how any pitcher could humanly pitch better than Kershaw is now.

At age 28, Kershaw is better than Pedro was at the same point in his career. The things both could account for themselves-preventing walks, home runs, and hit batters, while causing strikeouts--Kershaw is better. His FIP to date in his age 28 season is 2.57. Pedro Martinez' FIP through 2000 was 2.81. Martinez had a WHIP of 1.028 over the same span. Kershaw's WHIP is 1.019. And Kershaw did that while throwing 104 2/3 more innings than Martinez.

Then, you take into consideration that Kershaw is a lefty.

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Exactly my point. What we are witnessing right now is probably the best Kershaw will be.

After peaking (sans PEDs) almost all players digress toward retirement.

Hence, their career figures are not as good as their peaks...which is why they call them that, I guess.

I'm all about celebrating Kershaw especially since he's a lefty, but Pedro is still the best I ever saw.


.

[jason.1969]

Agree the Dodgers are wasting CK's prime, though not at all for lack of spending. With the ascension of the Cubs, it's unclear that LAD has any window left for a championship while Kershaw can still bring it.

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[Peter_Spaeth]

Before we deify Kershaw let's recall he is 2-6 4.59 in the post season. Blame the Dodgers for a lousy organization, but he shares some of the blame for their lack of post-season success in his career so far.

[jason.1969]

Add a 2-hit shutout to the mix!

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[the 'stache]

There should be no doubt who the best is in baseball. Kershaw's May:

5-0, 0.64 ERA. 42 IP. 3 CG. 3 SHO. 0 HR. 55 K, 2 BB. 20 H. 0.523 WHIP. 11.8 K 9/IP. 0.4 BB/9 IP. 25.5 K:BB ratio.

That's disgusting. When was the last time a pitcher had three shutouts in one month?

Originally Posted by jason.1969

Add a 2-hit shutout to the mix!

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

There should be no doubt who the best is in baseball. Kershaw's May:

5-0, 0.64 ERA. 42 IP. 3 CG. 3 SHO. 0 HR. 55 K, 2 BB. 20 H. 0.523 WHIP. 11.8 K 9/IP. 0.4 BB/9 IP. 25.5 K:BB ratio.

That's disgusting. When was the last time a pitcher had three shutouts in one month?

Bill- next thing we know, you'll be calling things you like 'sick'


.

[clydepepper]

Bill- I'm not sure when the last time a pitcher had 3 shutouts in a single month...but, it got me remembering Hershiser's late run in 1988:


His September record:

5 straight complete game shutouts

followed by 10 shutout innings in his last start to break yet another
Dodger's (Drysdale) Major League record with 59 consecutive scoreless innings.


But, he didn't stop there:

On 10/4, in the opening playoff game, he held the Mets scoreless for 8 1/3 innings...

bringing his incredible string to 67 1/3 consecutive scoreless innings!!

BIG WOW!!!


.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

There should be no doubt who the best is in baseball. Kershaw's May:

5-0, 0.64 ERA. 42 IP. 3 CG. 3 SHO. 0 HR. 55 K, 2 BB. 20 H. 0.523 WHIP. 11.8 K 9/IP. 0.4 BB/9 IP. 25.5 K:BB ratio.

That's disgusting. When was the last time a pitcher had three shutouts in one month?

2 walks in a month is freakish.

[chaddurbin]

urias is being called up and starting tomorrow against the mets...and his card jumps to syndergaard's level, just pure madness! he's not half the pitcher thor is right now, and i don't think he'll ever reach that level.

[the 'stache]

Looks like Syndergaard was another good investment. I picked his rookie card up three years ago for $25.



I really should re-scan it without the one touch. It's a really nice card.

[jason.1969]

Sadly I feel like the last time a pitcher had 3 CG in a month was 1979!

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[the 'stache]

Per ESPN:

No pitcher in modern MLB history has fewer walks at time of his 100th K of a season than Kershaw (via @EliasSports)

[the 'stache]

My God. 2 outs in the 7th inning, Kershaw gives up a single, and Roberts, the idiot Dodgers manager, brings in some relief pitcher I've never heard of. Kershaw has given up 4 hits, 10 Ks, 0 BB, and is only up 2-1 when pulled. The pitcher promptly gives up a triple, and Kershaw now gets a no decision.

How the Dodgers, with a $270 million payroll, and the best starting pitcher in at least a generation, are struggling to stay above .500 is beyond me.

[Dewey]

Welcome to my pain. Absolutely absurd. Lucky to get the win.

Another 10 Ks no BB. Crappie bullpen.

Originally Posted by the 'stache

My God. 2 outs in the 7th inning, Kershaw gives up a single, and Roberts, the idiot Dodgers manager, brings in some relief pitcher I've never heard of. Kershaw has given up 4 hits, 10 Ks, 0 BB, and is only up 2-1 when pulled. The pitcher promptly gives up a triple, and Kershaw now gets a no decision.

How the Dodgers, with a $270 million payroll, and the best starting pitcher in at least a generation, are struggling to stay above .500 is beyond me.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

My God. 2 outs in the 7th inning, Kershaw gives up a single, and Roberts, the idiot Dodgers manager, brings in some relief pitcher I've never heard of. Kershaw has given up 4 hits, 10 Ks, 0 BB, and is only up 2-1 when pulled. The pitcher promptly gives up a triple, and Kershaw now gets a no decision.

How the Dodgers, with a $270 million payroll, and the best starting pitcher in at least a generation, are struggling to stay above .500 is beyond me.

Dave Roberts: What a Dumb Ass!



.

[chaddurbin]

blah roberts outsmarted himself there...he had three options and chose the worst one. kershaw was tiring and if you pull him you gotta put in jensen who is the 2nd best pitcher on the team by far...you don't replace kershaw with another lefty.

it's great for guys like arrieta who's always pitching with a 5-1, 4-0 lead where you can air out your stuff and don't have to be extra fine on every pitch...or if you start to tire your bullpen can actually back you up and leave some runners stranded instead of giving up xbh or grand slams in playoff games making your stats look worse.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

My God. 2 outs in the 7th inning, Kershaw gives up a single, and Roberts, the idiot Dodgers manager, brings in some relief pitcher I've never heard of. Kershaw has given up 4 hits, 10 Ks, 0 BB, and is only up 2-1 when pulled. The pitcher promptly gives up a triple, and Kershaw now gets a no decision.

How the Dodgers, with a $270 million payroll, and the best starting pitcher in at least a generation, are struggling to stay above .500 is beyond me.

The problem is Kershaw is not strong enough to complete games and the Dodgers have a lousy bullpen. That is a recipe for disaster.

[Dewey]

3 complete game shut outs this year in 11 starts. Not strong enough . His bullpen is garbage outside of Kenley. It has been garbage for years which goes right along with the glut of other garbage on the team. It's like watching Brewster's Millions where he spends all that money with nothing to show for it.

Originally Posted by rats60

The problem is Kershaw is not strong enough to complete games and the Dodgers have a lousy bullpen. That is a recipe for disaster.

[chaddurbin]

lol dewey, i like your realistic view of the team. i visit a couple dodgers fan sites and they are mostly so myopic and prone to homerism. when they lose there's always a next game, when the season is over there's always next year...puig sucks, well his defense is good and he has a better attitude. meanwhile the team has had the same problem the last 4-5 years and the giants has won 3ws.

...well at least 70% of its fanbase can't watch them on tv now for 3 years, that could actually be a blessing in disguise. i'm a big fan but it's been the same losing loop for awhile. i support what the front office is doing but i'm not sure when that will translate to on-field success. seems like they're just buying lottery tickets with these marginal signings mccarthy kazmir or international gamble hoping to hit big on of them.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by rats60

The problem is Kershaw is not strong enough to complete games and the Dodgers have a lousy bullpen. That is a recipe for disaster.

Patently false. What the hell are you talking about?

Kershaw in May started six games. In three of those starts, he threw complete game shutouts. He pitched 49 2/3 innings out of a possible 54 innings. That's an average of 8 1/3 innings per start. In his eleven starts this season, he's thrown 86 2/3 innings (leading the National League). That's a hair under 8 innings per start (7.88 IP/start).

He leads the National League with those three complete games this year.
He led the National League with four complete games last year.
He led the National League with six complete games in 2014.

Here are the Major League leaders in complete games thrown, since 2011:

Clayton Kershaw, 23
James Shields, 17
Johnny Cueto, 14
Adam Wainwright, 13
R.A. Dickey, 12
Felix Hernandez, 12
David Price, 12
Justin Verlander, 12

And, since 2011, nobody in the Major Leagues....NOBODY....has thrown more innings than Kershaw:

IP since the start of the 2011 season:

Clayton Kershaw, 1,214 2/3 in 170 starts
James Shields, 1,199 in 177 starts
Felix Hernandez 1,170 in 172 starts
R.A. Dickey 1,163 in 177 starts (179 games)

In the last six years, nobody has thrown more innings, or more complete games, than Clayton Kershaw. Not strong enough to complete games? I'd say that Clayton Kershaw is, by a comfortable margin, the most reliable starter in the game as far as innings pitched per start.

I hate when people present statements as fact, and they have no clue what they're talking about.

[Dewey]

Who dropped that piece of dynami...

BOOM!