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  #1  
Old 10-09-2013, 08:46 AM
ILTBOC2 ILTBOC2 is offline
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Default Would you destroy a trimmed card?

The other night I was discussing the topic of trimmed pre-war cards with a friend of mine. Both of us agreed that their may have been a time in the last 60 - 100 years when this sort of thing was en vogue as their sure seem to be a lot of trimmed cards out there. Personally, I prefer original cards that are un-trimmed but I know there are many collectors who, for one reason or another, collect them. Our conversation then took an interesting turn...we started wondering what others thought of these cards and if there was anyone out there that knowingly destroyed cards like this in an effort to remove them from the hobby.

So, the question I present to you is what are your thoughts on trimmed cards and would you destroy them, say T206's or T205's that are abundant, if they somehow ended up in your collection? Say you purchased a collection of pre-war cards and some of them were trimmed...would you keep, sell, trade, or destroy the trimmed cards?

For me personally, I think I would try to re-sell them (with full disclosure of course)to a collector that was interested in, or didn't mind, such cards.

Interested in reading your opinions!
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2013, 08:52 AM
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pete ullman
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as much as i detest altered cards...it'd be quite foolish to destroy them?! like throwing $$$$ away?!?! i rid them from my collection by selling/trading them.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2013, 09:24 AM
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Absolutely not.

BTW, anyone have trimmed cards they don't like, send them to me and I promise not to release them back into the hobby
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2013, 10:39 AM
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Although its trimmed, it's still a card. That'd be like destroying all cards with creases because you collect crease free cards. For a piece of cardboard to last 100 years +, why destroy it? There is still value in it. You said an abundant T206, but why should it be treated any different than any other card? One day, it may be the last remaining survivor. Would you destroy a 1/1 because some collector trimmed it 30 or 40 years ago? Just use full disclosure and sell if you don't want it. It's not a fake or reprint, it's just been trimmed to look nicer. No harm in that as long as there's transparency.
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Last edited by AMBST95; 10-09-2013 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Typo correction
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2013, 10:58 AM
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no way would I ever destroy any original vintage card. That's just destroying a piece of history as far as i'm concerned. If all the trimmed, skinned, removed from scrapbook-type cards were taken out of the hobby, many folks would be priced out of owning many vintage turn of the century and prewar cards.
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  #6  
Old 10-09-2013, 11:01 AM
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No way. They might not "grade" well, but as has been mentioned before, they're pieces of history.
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  #7  
Old 10-09-2013, 11:02 AM
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The number of altered prewar cards in the world will never go down....just up. If we destroy them, we are killing what we love.
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2013, 03:08 PM
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"The Card" would be the 1st ta go! Whaaaat... ;-)

Some of the Nicest Cards that I' have seen have been Trimmed,
Like "The Card"!

iN This Realm... We are Care Takers of History.
Why... for the Love of the Game, would you destroy that in which you Love?

Better Trimmed than "NoT".
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  #9  
Old 10-09-2013, 03:30 PM
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Not unless it was from the 1980s or 1990s.
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2013, 03:57 PM
ILTBOC2 ILTBOC2 is offline
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Thanks to everyone for your responses! I figured it would be an overwhelming majority to "keep" the cards "alive" and not destroy them. I'm glad to see that is the case. To me, whether trimmed or not, these cards are works of art that need to be cared for so future generations can enjoy them as we have.
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  #11  
Old 10-09-2013, 04:39 PM
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I've thrown out cheap modern cards that were deceptively trimmed-- literally dropped them in the trash can. I've also sold more expensive trimmed old cards, while very clearly detailing with pictures the trimming.

I once had a Mint 9 graded 1970s Nolan Ryan card (grading company name withheld, though it was a big one) that was clearly and obviously trimmed on the bottom. A near first grade scissors cut! I sold it on eBay in the holder, and very clearly detailed the trimming. Included a big picture showing how the bottom was trimmed. Someone won it. Perhaps he was building a graded set.

So I have no set rule for selling trimmed cards-- other than, of course, good disclosure and candor at sale. My number one concern is that an innocent buyer down the road doesn't get burned. If a T206 Ty Cobb is soiled, mangled and hacked and sold on eBay as 'Grade Poor Minus Minus,' no one is going to get deceived about the grade. No one down the road is going to get fooled into thinking it's a Mint 9. However, if the card is deceptively trimmed and buffed to look like new, that's what concerns me.

I've seen many Pre War cards that, even if they weren't trimmed, they'd still grade a Poor Minus. I once had a grouping of 1933-5 Goudeys that I called the Devil's Coasters, because they looked as if the Devil had used them as coffee cup and beer coasters in Hell for 50 years. Stains, trimming, tape marks, writing, take your pick. I laugh now remembering them. Existential wear. Disclosure of trimming was a minor detail on a long checklist. The sad part is the Devil's Coasters collection included Ruth, Gehrig, Fox and more.

Last edited by drcy; 10-09-2013 at 05:26 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2013, 06:23 PM
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There's no way I could bring myself to throw out a card that looked like this just because it was trimmed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg N28 Anson Authentic Front.jpg (78.7 KB, 192 views)
File Type: jpg N28 Anson Authentic Rear.jpg (77.3 KB, 192 views)
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2013, 01:27 PM
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Rob Ruddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GasHouseGang View Post
There's no way I could bring myself to throw out a card that looked like this just because it was trimmed.
If you ever want to throw out that card I'd be happy to take it off your hands.
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  #14  
Old 10-12-2013, 03:06 AM
ls7plus ls7plus is offline
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Default The "X" factor

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILTBOC2 View Post
Thanks to everyone for your responses! I figured it would be an overwhelming majority to "keep" the cards "alive" and not destroy them. I'm glad to see that is the case. To me, whether trimmed or not, these cards are works of art that need to be cared for so future generations can enjoy them as we have.
There's another factor potentially lurking in the wings here...Did you see the restored T206 Plank in the inaugural REA fall auction? If worn corners can be built back up by adding paper fibers, presumably trimmed edges can also. IMHO, restoration is coming to the hobby in a big way, and will be accepted if, as has been discussed in this forum, it is "transparent." My personal opinion is that,over time, it will become quite worthwhile to have very scarce to rare trimmed cards restored, and their desirability thereby increased.

Regards,

Larry

PS: David, that's a beautiful Anson!

Last edited by ls7plus; 10-12-2013 at 03:09 AM.
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2013, 08:34 PM
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I certainly wouldn't destroy a trimmed or altered card. As for restoration, not something I am into for cards too much. There could be exceptions but as a rule, I think I usually prefer them as natural as possible. To each their own as long as there is transparency. Altered cards seem to be more acceptable nowadays, so there ya go.
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2013, 10:41 PM
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To me an altered/trimmed card is already destroyed.

Last edited by Cardboard Junkie; 10-17-2013 at 10:43 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-18-2013, 08:28 AM
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I am the type that collects just the end panels of T202 cards, so I think I am required by law to indicate that I would not destroy a trimmed card.

Brian
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  #18  
Old 10-18-2013, 01:39 PM
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Default cards are art work right?

if it ok to restore a Van Gogh, then it will eventually be ok to restore a Card (without having its value drop in the process)..

and Old vintage Cars are restored and their value increase....

so, I think the writing is on the wall, and the REA PLANK may set the stage...
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  #19  
Old 10-18-2013, 01:43 PM
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double post

Last edited by ullmandds; 10-18-2013 at 03:40 PM.
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  #20  
Old 10-18-2013, 01:44 PM
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pete ullman
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Based on the current bidding on the REA plank... I don't see any movement towards vintage card restoration anytime soon! I would think it will take an influx of new collectors not turned off by card alterations for this type of movement to occur.
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  #21  
Old 10-18-2013, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ullmandds View Post
Based on the current bidding on the REA plank... I don't see any movement towards vintage card restoration anytime soon!

patience grasshopper!!

still plenty of time to bump that baby
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  #22  
Old 10-18-2013, 02:16 PM
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I remember having a nice 59 Topps Bob Clemente raw that I sent to both PSA and after that to SGC that came back from both companies as evidence of trimming as a result I ended up ripping the card up and throwing it into the waste paper basket. A complete loss as I purchased card raw.
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  #23  
Old 10-18-2013, 02:23 PM
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Default so nice

you said it twice. I honestly think it's too early to tell about the Plank as it ain't over 'till it's over - I just looked at a few "choice" items and the bidding levels suggest that most of the action (as usual) will transpire in the late night hours. That being said - it will be a long time coming until restoration of cards other than the rarest among them produces values equal to or exceeding it's unaltered counterpart in it's lesser condition. I'm talking about legitimate/disclosed restorations of course.
I am reminded of the interesting Lipset undertaking (15 or so years ago) of detailing the process from start to finish on one of the elusive Darby Chocolate cards. I was "typing"base ball cards then and actually had an example in poor condition. I remember at that point making the decision that my cards would be as found (at least to the best of my knowledge) as the originality of their condition was as important to me as the graphics and history. I didn't follow thru on my "typing" challenge as too many cards were elusive and expensive - but have kept true to my original parameters if not the scope. I need a clean N162 Anson but won't be adding one that's restored altered/trimmed to my set. Not sure how I got to that point as it's mostly about the graphics but unless the card was offered at an absurd discount - it would never make it into my set - and even then it would just be holding a "place on line".
I'm always unsure when one uses the word "restoration" if they mean that or more specifically "conservation" where I believe the intent is to restore but in such a manner as to allow that the item can be returned to the state before the work was done. I have conserved a few advertising pieces - never a card. We are all on this earth for a moment in time - and my "stuff" I assume to be on loan.......

Last edited by 1880nonsports; 10-18-2013 at 02:35 PM. Reason: to include altered/trimmed
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  #24  
Old 10-18-2013, 03:33 PM
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I read this on the REA auction of the PLANK card...

this CANT BE GOOD


"This restoration is so well done that there is no evidence visible even under a black light"

is this the road we want to go down for our hobby?
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