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  #1  
Old 09-01-2019, 12:49 PM
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Default Gone with the stain

How long has this been "going-on" without ever even being talked about?

Richard "Dick" Towle AND his wife and son

Altering cards before our very eyes without a mention.

After this they all get slabbed for us to buy.


www.gonewiththestain.com

Please post and admit it if you did not know this was "going-on" so
we can give you a Rookie hazing.

He is a very nice guy so no one will roast him here I bet.

Michael J Durrett
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  #2  
Old 09-01-2019, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut View Post
How long has this been "going-on" without ever even being talked about?

Richard "Dick" Towle AND his wife and son

Altering cards before our very eyes without a mention.

After this they all get slabbed for us to buy.


www.gonewiththestain.com

Please post and admit it if you did not know this was "going-on" so
we can give you a Rookie hazing.

He is a very nice guy so no one will roast him here I bet.

Michael J Durrett
Old news. Yes, their name has come up, and yes, IIRC, Leon (hi Leon) has banned them from Net54.
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  #3  
Old 09-01-2019, 12:53 PM
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If you do a search, you will find some old threads on this topic.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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  #4  
Old 09-01-2019, 01:22 PM
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Since you are being quite the instigator lately why don't you tell us how long it's been going on? I am sure there is more ancient dirt you can dig up too if you keep trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut View Post
How long has this been "going-on" without ever even being talked about?

Richard "Dick" Towle AND his wife and son

Altering cards before our very eyes without a mention.

After this they all get slabbed for us to buy.


www.gonewiththestain.com

Please post and admit it if you did not know this was "going-on" so
we can give you a Rookie hazing.

He is a very nice guy so no one will roast him here I bet.

Michael J Durrett
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  #5  
Old 09-01-2019, 01:27 PM
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This is where Peter should come in with the lyrics to How Long.....
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  #6  
Old 09-01-2019, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
This is where Peter should come in with the lyrics to How Long.....
Sorry I am not dignifying Mr. Towle and his chemicals and crease removal with any lyrics.
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  #7  
Old 09-01-2019, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut View Post
How long has this been "going-on" without ever even being talked about?

Richard "Dick" Towle AND his wife and son

Altering cards before our very eyes without a mention.

After this they all get slabbed for us to buy.


www.gonewiththestain.com

Please post and admit it if you did not know this was "going-on" so
we can give you a Rookie hazing.

He is a very nice guy so no one will roast him here I bet.

Michael J Durrett
A search for Towle reveals 5 pages of threads. Uh, did you look before your pronouncement?
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  #8  
Old 09-01-2019, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
A search for Towle reveals 5 pages of threads. Uh, did you look before your pronouncement?
Then we couldn't beat a dead horse!
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  #9  
Old 09-01-2019, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon View Post
Since you are being quite the instigator lately why don't you tell us how long it's been going on? I am sure there is more ancient dirt you can dig up too if you keep trying.
Agreed. This appears to be Mr Big Beer Guts modus operandi. Very helpful
Eric Recker, per the rules.
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  #10  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:08 PM
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I am hoping someone will say this is news to them so we can see what a Michael Rookie Hazing looks like
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  #11  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:12 PM
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Pretty sure everyone knew about this - cept for Beer Gut
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  #12  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop View Post
This is where Peter should come in with the lyrics to How Long.....
Haha, you're quoting ACE. Saw them open for 10cc in Berkeley many moons ago.
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  #13  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:24 PM
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Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?
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  #14  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:31 PM
iowadoc77 iowadoc77 is offline
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We did not say Towle isn’t bad. Not at all.

And we aren’t jumping on the new guy. Your flavor for posting just seems to be rooted in instigation. Please correct me if I am wrong.

And we are in a time where there is a colossal amount of negativity. It would be nice to see more content that isn’t. Just my thoughts.
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  #15  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut View Post
Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?
Who said Towle Clan is not? Just told you 30 mins ago he is banned here!

Hold me back - I might start talking on mid-70s disco.
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  #16  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut View Post
Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?
Maybe you should read the threads before concluding anyone is resigned. If nothing else read my posts and tell me I am resigned.
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  #17  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul S View Post
Who said Towle Clan is not? Just told you 30 mins ago he is banned here!

Hold me back - I might start talking on mid-70s disco.
If I recall the song has the line, I ain't quite as dumb as I seem. Hmmm...
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  #18  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
If I recall the song has the line, I ain't quite as dumb as I seem. Hmmm...
Yes, that too
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  #19  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Maybe you should read the threads before concluding anyone is resigned. If nothing else read my posts and tell me I am resigned.
I would need a lifetime.

MD
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  #20  
Old 09-01-2019, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut View Post
I would need a lifetime.

MD
I meant in the Towle threads specifically lol.
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  #21  
Old 09-01-2019, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut View Post
I would need a lifetime.

MD
Truth
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  #22  
Old 09-01-2019, 07:05 PM
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Having spoken to Mr Towle in the past, he is a nice guy.

Whether you agree with his business or not is personal preference. As others have commented, there are numerous threads to review and comments to read to help guide and lead you down a path.

MD do you feel the same about ones who soak a card, because some on the forum have done so.
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  #23  
Old 09-01-2019, 07:33 PM
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From the webpage..

"Most recently we have developed a process to remove postage stamps from old albums and letters."

Yes, it's called soaking, and typically involves … wait for it.... soaking the stuff in water. OR if you want to save the letter but sell the stamp (sometimes a foolish move as they can be worth far more together) Some humidity. Like a closed plastic box and a bit of very hot water.

And it's been accepted practice since probably 1840-41, when the first stamps were sold.
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  #24  
Old 09-01-2019, 09:13 PM
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He said "Dick"

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  #25  
Old 09-01-2019, 11:41 PM
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Default Towle

or Towlie from South Park
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Towlie image.jpg (14.0 KB, 1023 views)

Last edited by Bram99; 09-01-2019 at 11:41 PM. Reason: add image
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  #26  
Old 09-02-2019, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut View Post
Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?

Towle does not catch as much flak
due to the level of transparency. He
announces what he does to the world.

simple as that
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  #27  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:22 AM
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For a minute...

I thought with the title with was BigBeerGut's farewell.


Guess we can only hold out hope!
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  #28  
Old 09-02-2019, 12:01 PM
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Stop running your mouth Republican!
Several people have told me your a real tool
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  #29  
Old 09-02-2019, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Republicaninmass View Post
For a minute...

I thought with the title with was BigBeerGut's farewell.


Guess we can only hold out hope!
And here I thought it was a baseball card-themed Gone with the Wind parody. Maybe someone more clever than me can come up with that one.
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  #30  
Old 09-02-2019, 01:27 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf9ccNlOTn8

How about the song, and not the movie.
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  #31  
Old 09-02-2019, 02:14 PM
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I know that GWTS's chemical treatments to remove signatures from baseballs is easy to identify under blacklight. And, in fact, on their website they themselves detail this.

Last edited by drcy; 09-02-2019 at 02:15 PM.
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  #32  
Old 09-02-2019, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut View Post
Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?
Hmm,

* New to the website but didn't research the topic.
* Didn't know other threads have gone into detail on this.
* Didn't know how to look up old threads (in spite of search button)

who should get the hazing?

As far as GWTS goes, it's rightfully controversial, but I'd hardly say criminal. They disclose the work they do, and, in some cases, even point out how to detect the work. To me, I disagree with some of it and I am OK with other parts. If I give them a page from a victorian album and they soak some T206's off of it, I hardly see that as a problem. We were meant to be able to hold the cards and view the backs (that's why they put advertising on them).
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  #33  
Old 09-02-2019, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowpopper View Post
Towle does not catch as much flak
due to the level of transparency. He
announces what he does to the world.

simple as that
Many people using his services do so ultimately to deceive. That he discloses in general terms what he does is a so what to me. His business is still based largely on helping people improve the appearance of cards in order to sell them deceptively.

I have no objection to soaking cards out of albums, and probably other minor stuff he does.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-02-2019 at 02:38 PM.
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  #34  
Old 09-02-2019, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?
IMHO, I think it is because Towle removes things that shouldn't have been on the card in the first place. Think scrapbook removal....removing wax stains....pen and pencil marks. Things that 95% of the Net54 members do anyway and don't see a problem with.

Why Moser is worse than Towle, is because he is trimming cards and adding colors. Where Towle is just removing things that shouldn't have been on the card in the first place, Moser is deceiving people in a major way. Trimming to sharpen corners is a definite no-no. Same goes for adding colors to cards.
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  #35  
Old 09-02-2019, 04:52 PM
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I've sent them like 6 pairs of my boxer shorts.

All have come back like new.

I couldn't be happier with his service.
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  #36  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram99 View Post
or Towlie from South Park
Best Ever. Hahahha
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  #37  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
Think scrapbook removal....removing wax stains....pen and pencil marks. Things that 95% of the Net54 members do anyway and don't see a problem with.
I disagree with your premise. If he catalogued the work he did and didn't gloat that it's getting past grading companies, maybe. But his alterations are done for the most part to deceive.
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  #38  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBeerGut View Post
Sorry.

It is true I am new and just saw this Towle guy and his website. I guess I just did not know you all were resigned to the existance of this sort of person. Sorry did not know there were threads from the past did not even know you could search for old threads.

Fine jump on the new guy at least my heart is in the right place! CRIMINALS operating before our faces and we buy the product back like Tyler Durden said!

Why is the Moser guy bad but Towle is not ?

I don't think Towle is malicious, or as malicious, as Moser, but here have been complaints and concerns, including on this board, that Towle's creations get into holders. So your question is not without a worthy point. There can be different intentions but with the same bad results.

Personally, I'm of the philosophy that, no matter what the reason or intent, cards that have been worked on should be permanently marked to identify them. And if you innocently restore a card but do not make that clearly known, that is a problem and a fault.

However, I also know that much of Towle's work is easily identifiable-- and even he has said so. As I noted earlier, he himself showed how some of his work can be identified under blacklight.

Last edited by drcy; 09-02-2019 at 06:12 PM.
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  #39  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:15 PM
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He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?
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  #40  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:20 PM
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People generally use the product on lower grade cards and turn them into higher grade cards. Does anyone feel that is ethical?
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  #41  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?
It does increase the eye appeal and can get the best most accurate grading company PSA to give them the better grade they deserve.
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  #42  
Old 09-02-2019, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?
Do cards come from Topps with creases and spider wrinkles? Just curious. I'm not old enough to have opened a pack of 1952 Topps when they were new.
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  #43  
Old 09-02-2019, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
Do cards come from Topps with creases and spider wrinkles? Just curious. I'm not old enough to have opened a pack of 1952 Topps when they were new.
I can attest that I pulled many a creased or ripped card out of packs in the late 70’s-early 80’s as a pre-teen.
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  #44  
Old 09-02-2019, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
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I can attest that I pulled many a creased or ripped card out of packs in the late 70’s-early80’s as a pre-teen.
You shouldn't have used your claws.
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  #45  
Old 09-02-2019, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman View Post
I can attest that I pulled many a creased or ripped card out of packs in the late 70’s-early80’s as a pre-teen.
Early 90's I was standing next to a guy at the local shop who pulled a card that was entirely torn in half from a pack.
If I had been able to think of any way to prove it was in the pack like that, I'd have bought it. But I couldn't think of anything. (He got a new pack for free from the dealer, and the card went in the trash. ) I do have a card related scrap from classic, which is the bit of paper from between the cards. That also came put of a pack.
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Old 09-02-2019, 10:43 PM
KCRfan1 KCRfan1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
He takes out creases. He has touted his success. Anyone want to defend that?
If the card was for my personal collection, never to be sold or traded, I would certainly have him remove a crease.

While Towle discloses what he does, it needs to carry to the card owner to provide full disclosure. This is where problems begin and deception.
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  #47  
Old 09-02-2019, 11:00 PM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
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Originally Posted by KCRfan1 View Post
If the card was for my personal collection, never to be sold or traded, I would certainly have him remove a crease.

While Towle discloses what he does, it needs to carry to the card owner to provide full disclosure. This is where problems begin and deception.
Try asking him for a list of cards he has worked on and for whom, and see just how transparent he is. There's no meaningful disclosure, just some generalities which are essentially advertisements for his services. At best he is knowingly enabling deception. And touting it.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 09-02-2019 at 11:00 PM.
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  #48  
Old 09-02-2019, 11:01 PM
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bobbyw8469 bobbyw8469 is offline
Robert Williams
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Try asking him for a list of cards he has worked on and for whom, and see just how transparent he is. There's no meaningful disclosure, just some generalities which are essentially advertisements for his services. At best he is knowingly enabling deception. And touting it.
And you think Towle is as bad as Moser??
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  #49  
Old 09-02-2019, 11:03 PM
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Peter_Spaeth Peter_Spaeth is offline
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Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 View Post
And you think Towle is as bad as Moser??
No. There's a spectrum and trimming is at the far end of it.
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Old 09-02-2019, 11:03 PM
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frankbmd frankbmd is offline
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You shouldn't have used your claws.
Peter uses his teeth.
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