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  #71  
Old 05-15-2017, 09:06 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Pat R.

You do have a different approach to collecting T206's than most, and it's quite interesting.

Thanks for posting,

TED Z
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  #72  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:54 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure....74 card sub-set

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


Hey guys, anyone here interested in smoking a 107 year old American Beauty cigarette
.
.................. Some of the really tough to find AB 460 cards in this sub-set ...................


Since 2005, my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 project has been a work in progress to complete this 74 subject run....... AMERICAN BEAUTY's....T205's and/or T206's

Prior posts here tell of my 3 "completed" T206 sets since 2005. But to date, I have 70 of the 74 subjects** needed to complete this AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set.
This run is tougher than most T206 experts rate it. After 12 years, I still need Camnitz (arms above head)....L Doyle (portrait)....McGraw (portrait-cap), and
Tinker (bat off shoulder)


The Exclusive 12 guys are the easiest AB 460 cards to find. But, certain cards are extremely rare. Besides the 6 examples shown above and these 3 here....there are
Lajoie (bat), Lake (ball), McQuillan (bat), Murray (portrait), Payne, etc......







AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 check-list........74 subjects

350/460 Series.....................28 subjects

Berger
Bradley (bat)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Jordan (bat)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifield (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)

Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)


460-only Series.....................46 subjects

Abbaticcio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (pitching)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (hands in air)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (arms at side)
Camnitz (arms above head)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Doyle (portrait)
Duffy
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hand on waist)

Hummell
Lake (with ball)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (bat)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)



Note **
Other sources claim there are 75 subjects in the AB 460 sub-set. However, my research indicates that 74 subjects were printed with the AB 460 backs.
The subject of contention is Ames (hands over head). I am confident in my research. So, I will reward anyone in this forum $200, if they can show me
this AMES card with a legitimate AB 460 back.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-19-2017 at 12:24 AM. Reason: Correct typo.
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  #73  
Old 05-15-2017, 09:52 PM
Ronnie73 Ronnie73 is offline
Ron Kornacki
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Those are some nice AB460 numbers Ted. This back is probably the least back in my collection along with everything after that like Hindu, CB's, etc. I did have 11 but now down to 10. I traded a friend an ungraded (poor) Murray Portrait for an Al Shaw Piedmont 350 PSA 2. I only had $100 invested so I did pretty good. My AB350 set is coming along and I will most likely complete that before the with frames and the 460's.

Ted, have you ever thought of going after an Old Mill set? I think that would be right up there compared to a Hindu or CB back set. Big set and lots of low pop's. I just add one here and there and try not to focus on it because of the real difficulty. I'm a 141 plus all SL'ers. Out of that, between 30-40 print group one's.
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  #74  
Old 05-16-2017, 09:10 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 adventure....74 card sub-set (continued)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reference, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * *


Hey guys, anyone here interested in smoking a 107 year old American Beauty cigarette
.
.................. Some of the really tough to find AB 460 cards in this sub-set ...................


A T206 collector, who has 60% of the cards in his AB 460 run, asked me which of the 74 cards are the toughest ?
I'll start with this Cobb. While there are as many as 10 known with the AB 460 back, this Cobb is very tough to find simply because of the "supply vs demand" factor.


.


List of the scarcest AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 subjects. Only 1 (or 2) examples of each are known.

350/460 Series

Cobb (bat off shoulder) ...........less than 10 examples
Jennings (one hand)
Lajoie (bat)
McQuillan (bat)
Overall (yellow sky)
F. Smith (Chicago & Boston)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Wilhelm (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)


460-only Series

Abbaticchio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Camnitz (arms above head)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Doyle (portrait)
Howell (hand on waist)
Lake (with ball)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
Murray (portrait)
Oldring (batting)
Payne
Schaefer (Washington)
Schlei (portrait)
Tinker (bat on shoulder)
Wiltse (portrait-cap)


I would appreciate any additional inputs to this list.


TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-17-2017 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Correct typo.
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  #75  
Old 05-17-2017, 08:58 AM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie73 View Post
Those are some nice AB460 numbers Ted. This back is probably the least back in my collection along with everything after that like Hindu, CB's, etc. I did have 11 but now down to 10. I traded a friend an ungraded (poor) Murray Portrait for an Al Shaw Piedmont 350 PSA 2. I only had $100 invested so I did pretty good. My AB350 set is coming along and I will most likely complete that before the with frames and the 460's.

Ted, have you ever thought of going after an Old Mill set? I think that would be right up there compared to a Hindu or CB back set. Big set and lots of low pop's. I just add one here and there and try not to focus on it because of the real difficulty. I'm a 141 plus all SL'ers. Out of that, between 30-40 print group one's.

Hi Ron

The OLD MILL's don't excite me....except for the Exclusive 12 cards with OLD MILL backs. As you know, these OLD MILL's are very difficult to find.
But, I enjoy this challenge. Recently, I started looking for them, and I have only 4 of them......

.
.


Not too pretty; however, I'll take them any way that I can find them


TED Z
.
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  #76  
Old 05-18-2017, 11:57 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Default T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....scary stuff....read all about it

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *


.


Circa 2000, a bunch of T206's were in circulation that were FAKES. These T206's were so professionally altered that they not only fooled collectors; but, also fooled the Grading
Company's (PSA, SGC, etc.)....who graded these fakes and gave some of them high numbers. Check-out this thread....Rebacked T206's on Ebay

Most in the hobby called these altered T206's...."re-backed". I choose to call them "re-fronted" DRUM's, red HINDU's, LENOX's, etc. A professional paper restorer told me how it
was easy to interchange the front / back combo of a T206. By first removing the front of a common T206 image from a card whose back was a rare one (DRUM, HINDU, LENOX,
UZIT, etc., etc.). Then, very precisely appliqueing the desired front onto the card with the rare back. He said there are adhering mediums that are undetectable in this process.

Fortunately, there were some of us collectors that instantly discerned that these T206's were fakes because their front / back combos were impossible.

Examples......

Matty (portrait) with a red HINDU back (PSA & SGC graded)

Red Cobb with DRUM back (PSA graded)

Green Cobb with a red HINDU back

Green Cobb with a CYCLE 350 back

Johnson (pitching) with BROAD LEAF 350 back


We were lucky......whoever did a beautiful job of altering these T206's was totally ignorant of the T206 Series structure and its associated backs.


There were many of these fakes in circulation, if you recall others than the 5 which I have listed here, please give us your inputs.

Thanks,

TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-19-2017 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
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  #77  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:40 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6,234
Default T206 cards RE-FRONTED (or re-backed)....scary stuff (continued)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * T206 Reflections, Theory's, Surveys, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * *






Circa 2000, a bunch of T206's were in circulation that were being sold on Ebay (and at Shows) that were FAKES. These T206's were very professionally altered, and these cards
fooled many collectors (and even the Grading Co's.). Except some of us, who instantly recognized these cards had front / back combos that were impossible.

Here is an updated list with some more examples which were reported to me via emails. So far, we have identified these 7 fake T206 cards......

Matty (portrait) with a red HINDU back (PSA and SGC graded)

Matty (portrait) with a SOVEREIGN 460 back (PSA graded)

Red Cobb with DRUM back (PSA graded)

Green Cobb with a red HINDU back

Green Cobb with a CYCLE 350 back

Johnson (pitching) with BROAD LEAF 350 back

Johnson (portrait) with BROAD LEAF 350 back


Courtesy Chris Brown


There were many more of these fakes in circulation. If you recall others than the 7 which I have listed here, please provide us your inputs.

Thanks,

TED Z
.

Last edited by tedzan; 05-19-2017 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Correct typo.
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  #78  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:51 PM
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jerrys jerrys is offline
Je.rry Spillm@n
 
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Location: Sun City Center, Florida
Posts: 712
Default T206 OT Doolan/Doolin Cards

Hi Ted - I can not find an answer to this T206 question:

Two Doolan Cards, one Doolin Card - they are same person. Any idea why there was not a correction?

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  #79  
Old 05-19-2017, 08:17 PM
Luke's Avatar
Luke Luke is offline
Luke Lyon
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Jerry,

They did fix the error, but not until the 350 series. The Doolin portrait was first printed in 1909. When they printed his other two cards, starting in 1910, the correction was made.

Scott Gross wrote a fun article for my website about all the misspelled names in the t206 set (shameless plug )

http://www.thatt206life.com/2017/04/...ur-name-wrong/
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  #80  
Old 05-19-2017, 08:20 PM
tedzan tedzan is offline
Ted Zanidakis
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H Jerry

Mickey Doolin's portrait card (issued in the 150 Series) is correct.

His 350 Series card (fielding pose) and his 350/460 Series card (batting pose) are mis-spelled.

They had it right the 1st time....anyone's guess why his subsequent cards had it wrong ?


TED Z
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