Poll: What is your opinion on the value of T206 WST (Wet Sheet Transfers)?

[teetwoohsix]

I was looking at Steve's SC image in the 15 pocket page, and wondering if that was an old 15 pocket page. I recall buying these sleeves and seeing them promoted as "acid free, no PVC" and thought if those sleeves were old, maybe that transfer was from the acid or PVC in the plastic?

The Chase dark cap Sov.460 I have has an EPDG image on the front (I've posted it before), for some reason I can't post the photo anymore. It's hard for me to imagine it's from being stacked, because there's no bleeding of the ink on the surface, and no type of WST or colors on the back.

Sincerely, Clayton

[steve B]

I did try to create a WST using a beat common.

Water, wrapped in paper and clamped in a vise for about a week, maybe a bit more.

Nothing at all except pressing the woodgrain pattern into the card.

When I have time I'm going to try alcohol and/or mineral spirits.

One of those will probably get it done, the plasticizer in the old sheets is oil based, as are most lithography inks which is part of what causes the ink migration. I can see front and back inks helping each other to transfer.

And since we're on the topic, here's something I've been needing to scan for everyone. The ink used is similar, but likely linseed oil based. The exact formulations were closely held trade secrets at the time.
6 cent post office card proof on the left, 6 cent Justice dept card proof on the right seen from the back(Justice dept are purple and have lincoln on the 6cent) Both bought from a seller in the UK and mailed in the same package, same tiny envelope inside. Neither had any offset before shipping. The seller had very nice scans of both fron and back.
The last printing of card proofs was around 1900. So approximately 100+ years after printing the ink was still "wet" enough to transfer.

Steve B

[atx840]

Neat Steve.

A while ago I took a high res scan for board member, it does appear to be under the Piedmont ad and "printed" more so then a transfer from another sheet.

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by atx840

Neat Steve.

A while ago I took a high res scan for board member, it does appear to be under the Piedmont ad and "printed" more so then a transfer from another sheet.

Thats a nice clear scan. Seeing that tells me the fronts are printed first and the backs last. Thats an impression cylinder transfer and not a wet sheet transfer. The only thing I have not been able to understand yet is why it's always the same color pass that shows up. Maybe the guy that printed that color didn't pay much attention to his printing press or maybe only a couple sheets got past inspection and all others were caught and destroyed. Has anyone seen any odd T206's with front colors on the backs? I think the next step would be to make a list of all impression sheet transfers with their backs also listed. Most likely many are from the same sheet. I know theres blank backs and Piedmont 350 backs. Are there any others? Doing this could help us learn what cards are on the same sheets and when adding the findings of this to other research, we may be one step closer to learning a sheet layout. One thing I should mention, during the printing, if a full sheet was not fed, then the next full sheet would have the transfer. If a sheet fed late into the press, then the next sheet would only have the transfer on the top section of the sheet. Most likely the sheet that fed late would have been pulled and destroyed but the next one printed with the half transfer would of slipped by. One last thing that I question is why on many impression cylinder transfers do the names, border, and part of the design transfer but on others, its just the design that transfers. Are they actually two different color passes? Maybe its a Brown and/or Black color pass. This would also have to be documented if a list was put together. Maybe someone needs to start a new thread and quote my thoughts and questions. I would love to do it but i'm busy with the T205 website and regular life stuff.

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

The only thing I have not been able to understand yet is why it's always the same color pass that shows up.

Ron - The impression cylinder transfer of Chance above is the black color pass which includes the outside border. The one's I posted in the other thread are the brown color pass and include the team captions. So that's at least two different colors for the fronts and Sean's Sovereign Tinker is a good example of an impression cylinder transfer of a back. Maybe some others will surface.

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by Abravefan11

Ron - The impression cylinder transfer of Chance above is the black color pass which includes the outside border. The one's I posted in the other thread are the brown color pass and include the team captions. So that's at least two different colors for the fronts and Sean's Sovereign Tinker is a good example of an impression cylinder transfer of a back. Maybe some others will surface.

Thanks Tim, Thats what I figured. I thought I remember seeing one with the border and the player name but then that would be a brown and black transfer error and the chances of that happening to the same sheet with a misfeed in front of it would be like finding a Honus Wagner with a Drum back. I checked my downloaded scans folder and it was actually a couple of T212 Obaks that had the border, player name, team, and player that I remember seeing.

[tiger8mush]

didn't fellow board member Kevin Saucier do some experimentations with this stuff? I haven't seen him post much lately, so I'm not sure if he's still around or if I've just missed his posts. I remember him being very knowledgeable in the land of alterations and always seemed happy to help other members detect that sort of thing.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by steve B

approximately 100+ years after printing the ink was still "wet" enough to transfer.

Steve,

Thanks for posting that. In a similar fashion, the ink used to print US Currency never completely dries. I took this $10 bill and piece of copy paper. After simply rubbing the bottom left corner of the sawbuck (front and back) across the page, it left clearly visible ink marks yet did not smudge the bill.

The black mark is from the front...the green mark is from the back. I realize the note is from 1934; however, believe it is old enough to warrant inclusion here...as a quick side note regarding inks from the early 20th Century.

Please know that I have almost no knowledge about printing. Spending a decade working in retail taught me a few tricks about spotting counterfeit money.

Best Regards,

Eric