OT: Excessive shipping - does ebay care?

[tschock]

Does ebay care anymore about excessive shipping fees? I know they used to have a policy on it, but since they are now taking a cut of the shipping charge as well, do they care?

More to my point, I thought I would report such a case to ebay. The item was almost 40 smaller-than-tobacco sized cards. Open bid of $9.99 not even met with about 1 day left. Expedited priority shipping listed as $15.60 and oh yeah, $15.55 for ECONOMY shipping for something that can VERY SECURELY shipped in a small, flat-rate priority box seems a bit... excessive (IMO).

I went to use the "Report item" link, but it doesn't seem that you can use this to report anything about shipping. I can see why ebay doesn't care since they now get their cut, but I thought they still had a policy against charging excessive shipping costs.

[munsonman]

Since the shipping is clearly stated, it is up to the bidder to determine whether or not it is excessive. If the bidder feels the shipping is too much, then they do not bid. If they think it is fine, then bid away. I am not stating that the shipping is the right price, just that everyone knows what it is before the auction ends. Some people think $2.50 or $3 is excessive for one card sent in a padded envelope. The fact is-That is how much it costs to ship it. Moral of the story, "if something bothers you about the auction, Don't bid."

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by munsonman

Since the shipping is clearly stated, it is up to the bidder to determine whether or not it is excessive. If the bidder feels the shipping is too much, then they do not bid. If they think it is fine, then bid away. I am not stating that the shipping is the right price, just that everyone knows what it is before the auction ends. Some people think $2.50 or $3 is excessive for one card sent in a padded envelope. The fact is-That is how much it costs to ship it. Moral of the story, "if something bothers you about the auction, Don't bid."

right bidders factor shipping into their total bid price...

I actually think if ebay takes a cut from ACTUAL shipping then that's unfair...I wish there was a way to have real shipping authenticated which will allow ebay to not take a cut from the shipping.......ebay takes a cut from shipping so you don't see a card for 1 cent and shipping 100 dollars...I understand that ..but if shipping was authenticated price wise, I don't see why they should charge the seller on that part

[PolarBear]

They do not.

[glchen]

Shipping charges on ebay are like Buyer's Premium for auction houses. You know what it is before you bid, so you should build it into the bid.

If you are still unhappy about it, you can always ding the seller's shipping rating for that item, or even neg the seller. However, unless the seller is trying for Top Rated, even that won't help.

[munsonman]

I do not think that a neg for the seller is appropriate. You knew the price upon entering the contract. If the item was $25 with free shipping, no one would have a problem. So $10 with $15 shipping is the same thing. Just factor ALL costs before placing a bid on an auction. It is like a buyers premium in a quality sports auction. If you can afford or think a $100 bid is your max, you don't bid $100 you adjust the max bid for the buyers premium. I do not see why the seller is being persecuted, it is his terms and if you do not like it; don't bid. The seller did nothing wrong, illegal, or immoral so reporting him to ebay or leaving a neg feedback is not justified.

[Buythatcard]

Originally Posted by munsonman

I do not think that a neg for the seller is appropriate. You knew the price upon entering the contract. If the item was $25 with free shipping, no one would have a problem. So $10 with $15 shipping is the same thing. Just factor ALL costs before placing a bid on an auction. It is like a buyers premium in a quality sports auction. If you can afford or think a $100 bid is your max, you don't bid $100 you adjust the max bid for the buyers premium. I do not see why the seller is being persecuted, it is his terms and if you do not like it; don't bid. The seller did nothing wrong, illegal, or immoral so reporting him to ebay or leaving a neg feedback is not justified.

+1
I agree with you 100%.

[tschock]

Thanks for the (obvious) opinions on taking account shipping costs when bidding. But I think I found the information I was looking for with the applicable details:

Here's what we found for "A seller may be overcharging for shipping costs"

If you think an item's shipping cost seems excessive, try to find a better deal. You can also use our Shipping Calculator to research shipping rates.

It's against our rules to have unreasonable shipping charges in a listing, or to provide unclear or misleading shipping information. Learn more about our selling practices policy.

Sellers are allowed to:

Charge actual shipping costs.
Include the cost of packaging materials, insurance, and delivery.
Include delivery confirmation or extra services in the handling cost.


Sellers aren't allowed to:

Charge more than the maximum shipping costs in categories with shipping caps.
Charge a separate fee for insurance.
Charge for business-related fees such as employee wages or gas mileage.
Include contradictory or confusing shipping terms in your listing.


When dealing with the Global Shipping Program, remember that:

A seller only has control over the domestic shipping cost; the cost of international shipping and import fees is determined by the Global Shipping Center.
All costs are paid for at the time of purchase; no payment is needed upon delivery.

Regarding sellers not being allow to "Charge more than the maximum shipping costs in categories with shipping caps." This only seems to apply to 'media' type listings such as books, DVDs, etc, specifically found in this link: http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/maxi...g.html#maximum

So it is against their "rules" to have "unreasonable" shipping charges (with "unreasonable" being the operative word).

The reason I had asked this? Because at one time ebay would not even ALLOW you to list something if it violated the maximum shipping price, and I just wondered if that was still in effect. I didn't THINK it was (based on the lack of option for reporting this), but I just wanted to KNOW the actual answer.

But I still believe they do take their cut out of shipping as well. This was a recent (last 2 years or so?) change to collect from sellers who would list cheap BINs with outrageous shipping. Unless that has now changed as well.

[vthobby]

"against their "rules" to have "unreasonable" shipping costs"

My experience on over 4500 Ebay deals both buying and selling is that this statement from Ebay means nothing. Literally.

The only place that they have ever limited me for postage is on books or videos (DVDs) and the max is usually $5. I have never seen it on any other category.

"The reason I had asked this? Because at one time ebay would not even ALLOW you to list something if it violated the maximum shipping price, and I just wondered if that was still in effect."

No it is not except in a very small amount of categories (books and movies).

"But I still believe they do take their cut out of shipping as well. This was a recent (last 2 years or so?) change to collect from sellers who would list cheap BINs with outrageous shipping. Unless that has now changed as well."

Yes, they still take their cut on P&H on EVERY transaction EXCEPT when you offer free shipping. Ebay always wins!

Sorry if it appears jumbled above but I cut and pasted some of your questions and put asterisks on them and put my answers in BOLD.

I think the biggest question however was "Does Ebay care?"

The simple answer as a few have pointed out is NO they do not.

#1 Ebay cares about Ebay. Nothing else.
#2 Paypal cares about Paypal. Nothing else.
#3 When in doubt and if you get angry at either please see note #1 and #2.



Peace, Mike

PS If you have ever had a dispute with Ebay or Paypal and tried calling their "customer service" phone number just refer back to Rule #1 and #2 also!

[Rookiemonster]

I've seen a card that was 5 miles away from me and charged 12.50 for shipping . When asked for a lower shipping price because of how close by I was or for a pick up if I win he said no . Because everything is certified mail only . People are just weird

[JustinD]

In the past sellers used to use shipping costs as a way to get around ebay fees as ebay would not charge final value on shipping.

There were many auctions with a .99 cent win and a 60.00 shipping charge. PayPal stole that as they take their cut on the whole kit and kabootle.

Ebay then cracked down on that as it was wrecking the double dip of fees they were normally doing.

They want their cut on the front and back.

[D. Bergin]

In order to reign in S&H fees, Ebay started to take a cut of S&H fees (= to or higher then the percentage taken for final value fees on the actual item). In order for sellers to not lose their shirt, they have to raise S&H fees.

EBay is a snake swallowing its own tail.

[drmondobueno]

Too much lawyer speak here for me, so will say this. I factor in my bid with the shipping prices in mind.

If the card does not meet description, or if the seller offers no description, and creases or some such are not apparent in the photo but are obvious when the card is in hand, the grade is nowhere close, etc, I decide to either return or eat the card. If I eat the card, and the transaction is blatently misleading, the seller gets a neg. If I eat the card, but the card is marginal, ie, VG vs Ex, the decision is described in comments with a neutral. Having never returned a card, I keep all this in mind during my buying decision.

If shipping is described to justify a price, and the seller does not do as described, the seller gets a neg. No hesitation. I've done that twice in twelve years.

Cheat me, you get a neg. Mislead, you get a ding. The seller or eBay does not make that decision, I do.

[buchner]

Originally Posted by munsonman

Since the shipping is clearly stated, it is up to the bidder to determine whether or not it is excessive. If the bidder feels the shipping is too much, then they do not bid. If they think it is fine, then bid away. I am not stating that the shipping is the right price, just that everyone knows what it is before the auction ends. Some people think $2.50 or $3 is excessive for one card sent in a padded envelope. The fact is-That is how much it costs to ship it. Moral of the story, "if something bothers you about the auction, Don't bid."

+1

[slidekellyslide]

Does ebay care about shipping charges? I wish they cared that you can't send magazines and catalogs media rate. They put a cap of $4.00 on the Catalog and magazine category. Try shipping a 5 lb Sears catalog for $4. Try shipping more than one magazine for $4. I've notified them a couple of times now that the USPS does not allow these items to be sent media mail, but they don't seem to care.

[vthobby]

One easy way to get around that limit is to simply list the Sears catalog under a different category. Any category will do. I really do not believe people search items based on category anymore. Just my 2 cents. For example, list it under "Collectibles, Advertising, Household".

Mike

[Jewish-collector]

Go to card shows instead and pay no shipping.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Go to card shows instead and pay no shipping.

LMK when the next card show comes to Lincoln, Nebraska.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

LMK when the next card show comes to Lincoln, Nebraska.

Or Big Pine, CA✌️

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

One easy way to get around that limit is to simply list the Sears catalog under a different category. Any category will do. I really do not believe people search items based on category anymore. Just my 2 cents. For example, list it under "Collectibles, Advertising, Household".

Mike

Or to have it "calculate" the shipping for you instead of setting a fixed rate.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

"against their "rules" to have "unreasonable" shipping costs"

My experience on over 4500 Ebay deals both buying and selling is that this statement from Ebay means nothing. Literally.

The only place that they have ever limited me for postage is on books or videos (DVDs) and the max is usually $5. I have never seen it on any other category.

"The reason I had asked this? Because at one time ebay would not even ALLOW you to list something if it violated the maximum shipping price, and I just wondered if that was still in effect."

No it is not except in a very small amount of categories (books and movies).

"But I still believe they do take their cut out of shipping as well. This was a recent (last 2 years or so?) change to collect from sellers who would list cheap BINs with outrageous shipping. Unless that has now changed as well."

Yes, they still take their cut on P&H on EVERY transaction EXCEPT when you offer free shipping. Ebay always wins!

Sorry if it appears jumbled above but I cut and pasted some of your questions and put asterisks on them and put my answers in BOLD.

I think the biggest question however was "Does Ebay care?"

The simple answer as a few have pointed out is NO they do not.

#1 Ebay cares about Ebay. Nothing else.
#2 Paypal cares about Paypal. Nothing else.
#3 When in doubt and if you get angry at either please see note #1 and #2.



Peace, Mike

PS If you have ever had a dispute with Ebay or Paypal and tried calling their "customer service" phone number just refer back to Rule #1 and #2 also!

Mike,

Was not jumbled at all, addressed my questions, and confirmed my suspicions. Thanks!!!

[tschock]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Does ebay care about shipping charges? I wish they cared that you can't send magazines and catalogs media rate. They put a cap of $4.00 on the Catalog and magazine category. Try shipping a 5 lb Sears catalog for $4. Try shipping more than one magazine for $4. I've notified them a couple of times now that the USPS does not allow these items to be sent media mail, but they don't seem to care.

Dan,

I remember seeing some discussion somewhere regarding USPS 'relaxing' some of these regulations. Something around magazines/catalogs/etc being able to go media IF the advertising was obsolete. So magazines from the '50s and turn of the century Sears catalogs would still qualify. But that was probably just chatter and never made it into regulation.

In the handful of times I've done magazines, I just went with a higher starting price and free shipping. Even though many people factor in shipping in their overall purchase price, and the net money out of pocket is the same, there is something about 'free' shipping that seems to attract bidders.

[ALR-bishop]

I am strictly a buyer on eBay. As long as the shipping charges are clearly stated I do not care what a seller chooses to charge. It is an economic decision I can make for myself if I have the correct info before bidding

When I started on eBay I think sellers had the upper hand...and some sellers used it as a club. At some point eBay decided to switch the power to the buyers, I assume because they thought it would improve their business. As a buyer at first I thought that was a mostly good thing, but the rules seem so one sided today that I know many good sellers who have stopped selling on eBay, and that is a bad thing for me as a buyer

eBay, like any business should operate to make as much money as it can for it's shareholders. But to be successful over time they have to treat their customers, both buyers and sellers fairly. If they fail to do so, the business will decline. No business does that on purpose. They may make mistakes, or may go through a period of poor management, but they obviously don't set out to screw customers. They need them.

Sellers have so few advantages on eBay today, the amount they charge for shipping does not bother me if stated clearly up front .

And I do not own any shares in eBay

[Cozumeleno]

Many sellers use the postage tool and print their own packages online. Why couldn't eBay simply deduct the amount of actual shipping paid and not take a cut on that? So if you charge a buyer $6 for shipping and the actual cost you pay is $5, eBay would only get a cut of the extra dollar. This would help keep sellers from charging excessive amounts.

If you DON'T use the automated shipping, then eBay could still just take a cut of everything. That's still technically wrong, but the current system isn't fair to anybody. This would at least make it fair to the many sellers that use the printed labels and it would also incentivize sellers to use them.

[Jantz]

Does Ebay care about excessive shipping fees? I can't answer that question, but I know it hurts sellers.

Recently bought a modern card from a seller with 4 feedback who wanted to charge $6 to mail a single card.

I knew his high shipping fees would kill the bids on this card and I was right. I won the card for .99 cents.

What irritated me was when he sent the card in a plain white envelope & postage stamp, basically pocketing the rest of the shipping fees.

Seems no one else is willing to buy from him due to his excessive shipping fees. He is listing cards from week to week starting them at .99 cents and not getting any bids.

[ALR-bishop]

You got the card for $ 6.99. I assume you felt getting the card for that price was worth it to you. To me the bottom line is always how much am I willing to pay to get the card, however the price breaks down

Plain first class mail letters are risky but I understand why sellers do it that way on less expensive cards....to save or make money.That is ok with me as long as the card arrives as advertised. If not I expect a refund. I am willing to send a photo of the damaged card, or send it back at seller's expense

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by Cozumeleno

Many sellers use the postage tool and print their own packages online. Why couldn't eBay simply deduct the amount of actual shipping paid and not take a cut on that? .

Because there is always someone who finds a way around it? Offhand I could use Priority with confirmation for $6, print first class online, then add regular stamps to the package. Not a whole lot of work to save 50 cents per package. It adds up.

[D. Bergin]

Ebay has their head up their ass with their priorities. Driving off all the good sellers and then encouraging fly by nighters to list as much stuff with their cell phones, mobile apps and 3 word descriptions as they can get away with.

Out of 2 of the last 3 items I won on Ebay.

I didn't get gouged on shipping charges but one of the lots (a group of about 30-35 1940s era boxing programs, tickets and credentials) was delivered as "Contents missing from package" by the Post Office. Not the fault of the Post Office. They were stuffed into a plain white 10x12 envelope, no tape reinforcement, just licked closed to the adhesive, shipped media mail and a half-assed taped copy paper shipping label that was flapping in the breeze. Only thing left in the package was a half a piece of backing board.

Sure I got a refund, but a collection that survived together for about 75+ years now sits destroyed at the bottom of a USPS sort table somewhere between California and Connecticut.

2nd was a large poster, shipped in a gift wrapping tube. Not a shipping tube.........a gift wrap tube. That was a fun adventure to get out of the package........and then when finally I pull it out, I find it's a horrible large photo reprint with a guage in it. My fault I guess. When I went back to look at the description the word "Reproduction" was hidden in the "Item Specifics". Unfortunately no clue to this in the massive 5 word description or the blurry camera phone photo they provided in the listing. No worries I guess, it was cheap and I can just pin it up in my attic space............but I didn't get gouged on shipping I guess.

This seems to be the norm lately.

I would gladly take a little gouging if these people could just get their stuff to me safely. This is coming from somebody who sells a LOT more on Ebay then he actually buys on Ebay.

Ebay has managed to piss off both good buyers AND good sellers with their wonderful business strategies.

[unamuzd1]

Excessive shipping? Try clicking the "You won!" button in an email and getting this gem...



Okay, so it was a typo when the seller went to combine shipping, and it got fixed within 2 minutes of me sending message to let the seller know... but I about keeled over when I saw my total!

[Jewish-collector]

My apologies for the stupid question, but why can't sellers just always do free shipping and just add their shipping fee to the starting price or BIN price ?

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

My apologies for the stupid question, but why can't sellers just always do free shipping and just add their shipping fee to the starting price or BIN price ?

If you are looking to buy just a single card from a seller at a time, than free s/h is a great idea.

However, as a collector, I try to buy as many cards from one seller at a time in order to minimize my s/h costs. So I look to sellers who charge a set fee (say $3) to ship no matter how many cards are purchased or free s/h once a quantity/$ threshold is achieved. I typically do not buy multiple cards from the free s/h sellers as I do not enjoy paying the embedded s/h cost on each item.

As an example, I find a free s/h seller offering 20 cards I am considering for a set I am building. Typically $1 cards, the free s/h seller offers them for $2 each in order to cover their s/h. My total (with free s/h) for these 20 cards is $40. I find another seller with the same 20 cards being offered. However, this seller offers a $3 s/h cap and sells the cards for $1 each. My total with this seller is $23.

I am surprised when sellers who offer lower priced cards (commons) using the free s/h format. It works great for single card purchases, but what seller prefers to sell just one card at a time when they could be selling 15-20 at one time.


In regards to excessive s/h charged by sellers, ebay is not going to police their own rule about excessive s/h as they do not pay out ebay bucks on s/h, the ebay bucks are earned only on the cost of the item itself. You would think ebay would be encouraging sellers to not offer free s/h as they end up paying out more in rewards to the buyers when free s/h is used. In addition, TRS still pay 9% on the s/h charges and do not receive their 20% FVF discount on s/h FVFs. So it is certainly to eBay's benefits to allow higher s/h based on the rewards that do not have to be paid and the discounts on fees that do not have to be offered.

[bbcardzman]

Bottom Line: EBay cares only about $ and not about the sellers who make it for them.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

You got the card for $ 6.99. I assume you felt getting the card for that price was worth it to you. To me the bottom line is always how much am I willing to pay to get the card, however the price breaks down

Plain first class mail letters are risky but I understand why sellers do it that way on less expensive cards....to save or make money.That is ok with me as long as the card arrives as advertised. If not I expect a refund. I am willing to send a photo of the damaged card, or send it back at seller's expense

That is how I feel as well.

I was willing to pay around $7 for the card.

His $6 shipping was factored into the final price, so my max bid was only $1.05. If someone were to have bid higher, then they would have won the card.

[jcc6252]

VCP does not handle shipping variances correctly. Depending on the amount, excessive shipping charges can greatly skew the VCP price of a card. For example, if a $20 card sells for $15, plus $5 shipping, VCP records it as a $15 sale. If it sells for $20, with free shipping, the sales price now becomes $20. Basically, VCP is flawed, and should be using the grand total.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

My apologies for the stupid question, but why can't sellers just always do free shipping and just add their shipping fee to the starting price or BIN price ?

It's fine with BIN prices. If you are running true auctions it's a lot trickier.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by jcc6252

VCP does not handle shipping variances correctly. Depending on the amount, excessive shipping charges can greatly skew the VCP price of a card. For example, if a $20 card sells for $15, plus $5 shipping, VCP records it as a $15 sale. If it sells for $20, with free shipping, the sales price now becomes $20. Basically, VCP is flawed, and should be using the grand total.

Then you would have all the instances where a single buyer buys a bunch of cards from the same seller at once in order to combine shipping. (ex. they buy 5 $15 cards from the same buyer, and is charged $5-$7 for the same shipment).

Are you going to tack on the initial $5.00 charge to each card? I don't think VCP has a magical software tool to access the actual charged invoices of every individual purchase. Best to keep it as simple as possible. Only thing I can think to do would be to automatically knock a couple bucks off the price of FREE SHIPPING sales, to bring things a bit more in line.

[jcc6252]

Good point!