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Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for BSelling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. Enjoy!
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  #1  
Old 09-03-2005, 07:40 AM
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Posted By: Chris

Leon, This is in no way an insult to you and how you run this board as I do feel that you do a great job and work hard at making it a good place for information. With that being said in one post Leon said how much he would like some of the other collectors with incredible collections to post on here. Well the fact is they do not and will not post in forums because it opens them up to personal attacks like Jim has been opened up to. Why? Because he mentioned something about the value of cards. What is wrong with that? We all know the value of these things. Heck even Jay started a post about how strip cards are not cheap anymore. That has to do with value. TBOB started one not long ago about how hot caramel cards were which had alot to do with value of cards. Now I don't bring this up to in anyway criticize those board members for that but I just don't understand why Jim gets attacked when he does it. I guess my main point is this, if we as a board would like it to grow and be the best it can be it would be nice to cut down on the personal attacks and respect people's different opinions instead of attacking them like they are not entitled to think differently. To those people who attack Jim for talking value, we all think about value at some point. We can collect because we love it but we all know the value and we ALL are "guilty" of talking about the value of vintage cards at some point. All of us! Not just Jim. In closing I would just like to say there are more important things to worry about in this country than to have a fight over who is more of a true collector on this board. We all either lurk here or post here because we enjoy old cards. So I would like to challenge all board members to clean things up a little with less personal attacks so we could show some of these great collectors what a friendly board we can be and maybe, just maybe we could get a couple of them to post here and share their collections or information with us.

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  #2  
Old 09-03-2005, 07:56 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

There may be a little class warfare going on here. The majority of the contributors on this board collect within a reasonable budget, and with vintage card prices soaring they may begin to feel that they are being pinched out. And the other wealthy collectors continue to purchase rare cards unabated. This may be one reason there is some resentment on the board. That is just the way things are and always will be. Maybe it would be better for those blessed with very deep pockets to put less emphasis on the values of some of these cards that only they can afford. But don't fret- when it soon costs the price of an E107 HOFer to fill up a tank of gas, it will all even out (one way or the other).

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  #3  
Old 09-03-2005, 08:14 AM
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Posted By: dennis

this is a great board and i frequent it numerous times daily.yes sometimes it does get a little touchy,but leon does not allow personnel attacks.disagreements are a part of life and they are always going to happen,even it the vintage baseball card world!

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  #4  
Old 09-03-2005, 08:30 AM
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Posted By: Anonymous

Chris and Barry,

Agree with all your points.

There are a lot of graded card collectors(some occasional posters) who have e-mailed me the past 2-3 weeks asking me if I was sure I knew what I was doing as any post I made I would open myself up to attack by certain named participants. Sure enough it happened--all I had to do was mention the value of another persons collection to support my point that the most valuable collections were those of graded card collectors--namely Merkel, Louchios and Fogel and the crazed responses started.

Regardless, I plan to continue to post on topics like this and will not be so reserved in responding next time.

Too bad because I think this board has more to offer than any I have seen but a number of collectors just don't want to participate in something where they are open to attack.

Jim

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  #5  
Old 09-03-2005, 09:12 AM
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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- To take it a step further there is of course a great deal of inequality in this country- just take a look at the wretched video coming out of the Gulf Coast and recognize immediately that not every strata of society has suffered that devastation equally. And there will always be resentment from those who have less. Hal Lewis is a friend and someone whom I have great respect for- he has done things for me that are beyond what I would have expected from anyone. But when he goes on the board to show off his purchase of a 100K+ Wagner- and he has every right to do it and be proud of it- it's going to rattle a few collectors who have to forsake a vintage card because it just cost them $50 to fill up their gas tank. I think this disparity is one of the main reasons that collectors are feuding on this board- the "have nots" are getting tired of seeing what the "haves" recently added to their already vast collections. You have every right to discuss some of the country's great collections but it will cause some hard feelings and that's just the way it is. It's no fault of yours. It's just America.

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  #6  
Old 09-03-2005, 09:39 AM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

Barry,

Very astute observations and I agree completely.

Jim

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  #7  
Old 09-03-2005, 09:54 AM
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Posted By: Daniel Bretta

I have to say that I pretty much stopped posting here because some people are rather rude. I posted a picture to imageshack where people can rate the picture and some people rated the picture a 1 out of 10. I doubt that I will ever share anything from my collection ever again on this forum. Most people here have been helpful with my questions and I may continue to lurk but why put in the effort if you're only going to get negativity.

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  #8  
Old 09-03-2005, 10:00 AM
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Posted By: Anonymous

edited to remove post suggesting that Jim share more of his collection with us... at the request of Mr. Vargha.

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  #9  
Old 09-03-2005, 10:17 AM
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Posted By: Anson

Any forum with a substantial number of people will fall to this, one way or another. There's no way around it; it's being human unfortunately. While most of the folks on here can work through things in a mature fashion, occasionally Leon has to step in and remove someone.

Little tiffs and jabs shouldn't keep anyone from enjoying this board. We all collect because we love cards, even though we may do it in different ways.

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  #10  
Old 09-03-2005, 10:25 AM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Dan, I'm sorry about your experience, that really sucks. And Barry is right: there is resentment and people with expensive cards do feel a bit leery about showing them here because of that hidden and not so hidden bad feelings directed at them. I don't think Jim's motives were impure, I just think he collects differently than others on this board. I also don't think some of the hostile reactions were surprising either: after all, anyone who posts here has baseball cards as a top passion, so when they see cards that others' have that they cannot afford it does tend to make them jealous. I feel the same way when I see a card I can't have; it's just human nature. And considering the state of the world right now, perhaps we could be a bit more tolerant of each other?

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  #11  
Old 09-03-2005, 10:30 AM
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Posted By: Scott Forrest

I am very opinionated and thus probably disliked by as high a % of board members as anyone, but I post pictures all the time and very rarely get insulted.

Chris, you wrote:

<<Well the fact is they do not and will not post in forums because it opens them up to personal attacks like Jim has been opened up to. Why? Because he mentioned something about the value of cards. What is wrong with that?>>

You just mixed apples and oranges - Jim was attacked because someone disagreed with his assessment of collection values - what does that have to do with his posting pictures of his collection? Also, posting in a public forum opens ANYONE up to attacks, regardless of their net worth or the value of their collection - I think we have a good representation of the "social strata" posting here, but of course there are plenty of wealthy collectors, "mid-size" collectors, AND collectors like myself who post here.

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  #12  
Old 09-03-2005, 10:43 AM
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Posted By: joe brennan

I havent chimed in on any of these posts because I am relatively new here. I can tell you I collect mid grade T206's and have become very passionate about them. When I see a fellow board member aquire a great card, I am happy for them, not jealous. Its their passion and I have mine. I just look forward to the next card I would like to buy. If every time someone aquired more than me in life and I was jealous, I'd go through life as a bitter person. I'm happy with what I have and love seeing everyone elses prizes. Not taking sides at all in the price verses collector thing, but I am in awe of JC's graded collection, as I am in awe of alot of collections on this site. in fact, I love seeing everyones collection. Some day I'll post mine and someone might start collecting vintage because of it. Just my 2 cents.

Moral Values " What would you do if no one was looking? Only you would know" Instilled in me by James W. Brennan Sr.

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  #13  
Old 09-03-2005, 10:56 AM
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Posted By: David Vargha

Geez Dave, it sure didn't take you long to be an ass on this thread. I realize that Leon will probably delete this post (and rightly so) but it needed to be said.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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  #14  
Old 09-03-2005, 11:41 AM
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Posted By: cmoking

At first I thought I didn't like all the controversy on this board...I didn't like some of the back and forth stuff between posters. But then I realized - hey, I wouldn't visit this board as often as I do if it weren't for these type of threads! Maybe I'd visit a couple of times a week, but because of these threads, I click on this site at least 10 times a day. Controversy brings eyeballs. Is that good or bad? Only the site owners can decide what they want.

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  #15  
Old 09-03-2005, 11:49 AM
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Posted By: jay behrens

I can honestly say that I have never attacked anyone becuase of jealousy of what they have in their collection or how much it is worth. If that were the case, I would be constaly attacking Leon, Hal, Jay Miller and others whose collections I admire.

My problem with Jim and his is ilk is his attitude. He comes across as very elitist and very condescending. It may not be intentional, but that is the way he comes across to me and many others on the board. For evrey person that has come to Jim's support on this board, I've gotten 10 emails from people telling me they wish they had the nerve to say the things I do. The most common comment I've heard about Jim is that he has a mild form of AJM.

Like Scott, I'm not afraid to speak my mind. This keeps me from winning any popularity contests around here, but I can live with myeself because I am honest with my opinions and it's a great way to relieve any pent up stress rather than going over to Lee's place and giving him a beating.

I have nothing against talk about money here when it involves escalating prices, dropping values, etc. I do have a problem when someone's sole fixation is the value of other people's collections. That is pretty much what CU board and the registry is for. If you are going to come here, ask about that topic and then flat out dismiss raw cards, then why bother?

Jim, I really have a hard time believing that these heavy hitters, whose name you seem to love to mention every chance you get, are scared to post here. These are supposed to be strong, successful men. Why in the world would they be intimidated by fellow card collectors. Seems to be a charater flaw that wouldn't be condusive to success in personal life.

Chris, this place really is a friendly place, but if you come in here like a bull in a china shop, don't expect a warm welcome.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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  #16  
Old 09-03-2005, 11:58 AM
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Posted By: hrbaker

Passionate people are passionate about what they are passionate about! I think that's a tautology but I know it is true. Vintage card collectors are no different. It's an open forum for the most part and you can chose to read and respond to what you like. If you post an opinion (and certainly if you post it as fact) you can expect a response from passionate people, pro or con. Vintage cards are a hobby for most of us and a business/hobby for the rest. No one is entitled to own or collect anything. If you can afford it and chose to spend your money on it - great! If there is something you want but can't afford - tuff darts. That's fact of life that applies to most anything. I have several nice cards I have owned for a long time that if I had to buy them today they woud be out of my range. Does that make me mad, jealous, envious? No, it's a fact of life, much like a larger house, nicer car, etc. I try to keep this love of mine in the realm of a hobby and out of the peeing contest folder. I celebrate with people who can acquire great cards that they want and if they choose to look at them as both a hobbyist and an investor - so what. I have a limited amount of income that I chose to devote to my hobby, I have to make my choices based on that. The fact that there may be some things I would like to have (read: not need to have) and chose not buy becuase of price has nothing to do with anybody else and what they do.

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  #17  
Old 09-03-2005, 12:13 PM
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Posted By: DJ

I must admit that in some ways, I have been priced out of the recent market and would love to share recent purchases if I in fact had some recent purchases. I have no resentment to those who have the funds to be able to purchase high priced cards. When someone purchases a high money card and displays their newest acquisition on the Board, I applaud them for it. I enjoy looking at the card/s whether it be a raw Poor card or a PSA9 of something significant.

Does anyone honestly think Keith O. or Larry Fritsh or anyone would get attacked for sharing his/her/their cards on this Board? C'mon. Some people enjoy sharing their collection with people and some don't. Too each his own.

Does anyone attack Hal and his finds? There's a big difference between Jim and Hal. Hal would never use words like "existence" and isn't caught up pretty much only in the value of his purchases. Simply put, Jim rubs me the wrong way in some of the things he says and comes across as being very condescending. This comes across to a large majority of the Board as a person from Iowa once did.

To say this place would better be suited if we limit the in fighting is simply incorrect. This is a very placid place full of good people. There are many opinions and if you make your opinions felt in a manner that doesn't offend or isn't worded properly, then there you might hear something from a fellow board member. This Board is about collecting and the love of collecting and some people simply don't understand that.

DJ

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  #18  
Old 09-03-2005, 12:18 PM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

I am not sure that jealousy or envy are the core emotions driving some of the posts. Jealousy comes from begrudging someone their success. I honestly do not believe that there are many people here who are that petty. I think it is more accurate to say that many collectors are fed up with the money element being the focus of discussion and are voicing their disapproval when money is mentioned as the key to collecting. When someone relatively new comes out of the box talking money, money, money and brings postwar cards into play to boot, it turns off a lot of people here and they say so. It isn't that the value of cards is taboo or a bad topic (I enjoy a good investment thread and usually get into it), it is that making money the focus of everything really doesn't sit well with some of the posters here. Lots of us, myself included, come here to avoid talking about money, so when we see a post that cheerleads monetary considerations as the core of collecting, we react.

I also think some folks also have to lighten up and remember that this is a community of collectors. There is no place for ad hominem (personal) attacks. If you make a post and someone trashes your opinion, trash theirs back, but don't trash them. That other Adam got run not merely because he was as venal as can be but because he was disingenuous, rude and intolerant of others.

Edited to say:

Personal attacks are encouraged on the following: the Dodgers current ownership and management team, Barry Bonds and the rest of the syringe boys, All reprint sellers, Roy Huff and his cut out compadres, Joe Orlando, PRO grading and Bud Selig.

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  #19  
Old 09-03-2005, 12:19 PM
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Posted By: cmoking

"There's a big difference between Jim and Hal. Hal would never use words like "existence" and isn't caught up pretty much only in the value of his purchases. "

I don't ever remember Jim telling us how much he paid for any of his cards. Quote some for me please.

And even if he did, what's so bad about that? Is he putting you down because he can afford a card that you may not be able to? Did he say "I paid $XX,XXX for this card and you can't afford it, haha". Quote something like that too if you see it. Thanks.

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  #20  
Old 09-03-2005, 12:25 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

I love how broad statements get construde as being only direct toward Jim.

Adam, you left out Joe Orlando

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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  #21  
Old 09-03-2005, 12:38 PM
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Posted By: warshawlaw

fixed it

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  #22  
Old 09-03-2005, 12:39 PM
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I have to agree about the fact that Jim doesn't rub his purchases in anyone's faces. He does focus on the value of the collections, but so what? You guys have to realize that if you're focusing on putting together high end sets (whether from the 50s or prewar), money is the dominant hurdle, not necessarily ingenuity or creativity. And if you're spending big bucks you are certainly focused on what the cards are worth on a month by month basis. Remember, even rich people don't like tossing money into the gutter. That being said, I happen to enjoy Jay's collecting habits and finds and truly respect the fact that the guy has spent a grand over the past year or so and has come up with so much. How in the hell can you not be impressed by that? The guy really loves this hobby - this religion you could almost call it. So while I identify strongly with Jim's concerns and interests as they are very similar to mine, I also identify with Jay's passion, purpose and dedication. It really blows me away. Believe me, I'd love to have a beer or 4 with both of those guys and talk cards all night.

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  #23  
Old 09-03-2005, 12:47 PM
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Posted By: Julie

Even if half the members dislike me becasuse I'm female, or because I'm a freak, I learn more about my own and other peoples' stuff here than I could anywhere else. Yeasterday I found out I'd bought a modern reprint instead of an original photo. Now who else would have told me that? At Tri Star yesterday afternoon, someone who reads the board but never contributes said what a GORGEOUS photo I'd gotten of Josh Gibson--that's all I'd be hearing if I didn't post things here, and people didn't read and respond to them.

I'm very greatful for this board. Forum. Whatever,



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  #24  
Old 09-03-2005, 01:08 PM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

Once again Jay cannot keep from making things up and using them to attack me. Jay, look in then mirror--what keeps you from winning any popularity contests is you act like a jerk and attack people--thats an easy one. Collectors look at what you say and say why would I want to post here when you have someone who acts like an idiot.

To remind everyone who read what Jay says and think there is a grain of truth in it--I have never talked about the value of my collection and I made 1 post about the value of someone elses to illustrate a point--that the most valuable collections were held by graded card collectors. Yet Jay calls it my sole fixation.

Saying that--I think that anything that relates to pre-war cards is fine here--and and I recall our moderator thought it was a good post.

Thanks to all for their public and private support.

I will add--read the boards--people want you to stop the personal attacks and get back to talking about topics related to vintage cards. I will not initiate but as Leon said it is fair to respond to someone who attacks you--continually.

Jim





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  #25  
Old 09-03-2005, 01:22 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Wow Jim, I am the sole reason that keeps people away from here? LMFAO!!! Aside from your post that you started mentioning you completed your SK set in PSA8 or better, when have you started a thread that didn't involve the value of cards or a collection? I took you to task for having an unhealthy fixation on values. Call it an attack if you like, but that doesn't change the fact that you do have an unhealthy fization with the value of your cards and that of others. You also prove once again what an elitist and norrow minded attitude you have by claiming that the most valuable collection are only those that are slabbed.

And you wonder why people have taken a dislike to you? Stop playing the victim and own up to what you are and realize that not everyone is going to like you and what you post about. I know I can't please everyone and don't pretend to.

Added - Jim, trust me, if I was making a personal attack on you, Leon would be the first one to delete and I would most likely be getting a personal email from him to. So don't assume that jsut becuase you get taken to task for something means that it is personal attack. Stop you whining, stop playing the victim. Geez.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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  #26  
Old 09-03-2005, 01:25 PM
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Posted By: DJ

csmoking,

What are you talking about?

I'm not bitter about not being able to afford certain cards that others have. I know I will probably never own a Wagner. I'm content with that.

The problem I have is with the behavior of individuals and how these individuals handle their opinions. I've had a back and forth with Jay but I don't think he's a jerk. I don't think he's the reason people don't post.

I want to know something. About what Jay wrote in a previous thread addition:

"My problem with Jim and his is ilk is his attitude. He comes across as very elitist and very condescending. It may not be intentional, but that is the way he comes across to me"

Seriously, is this an attack?

DJ

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  #27  
Old 09-03-2005, 01:34 PM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

Boy you are a rare bird.

The three most valable card collections are those that are slabbed--this is not elitist this is factual and I backed up one with documentation. You know little about graded cards--pay attention and learn!

I "wonder why people dislike me"--thats an interesting statement as I never wondered it before and I have a lot of friends who collect.

Interesting how you try to reinvent what you have said about me in the past...and try to say it is not an attack when everyone seems to refer to it.

And lastly--yes--several collectors have told me that you primarily and secondarily are the reasons they stay off the board.

Once again I am responding--lets see if the attack man keeps it up. Can he control himself or will he go the way of Adam Moraine.

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  #28  
Old 09-03-2005, 01:36 PM
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Posted By: cmoking

DJ, I thought I was clear. I'll re-iterate.

DJ wrote :

"Does anyone attack Hal and his finds? There's a big difference between Jim and Hal. Hal would never use words like "existence" and isn't caught up pretty much only in the value of his purchases. Simply put, Jim rubs me the wrong way in some of the things he says and comes across as being very condescending. This comes across to a large majority of the Board as a person from Iowa once did. "

Specifically, this section: "and isn't caught up pretty much only in the value of his purchases. " implies that Jim is the opposite due to the sentence previous to that: "There's a big difference between Jim and Hal."

You are therefore directly implying that "Jim IS caught up pretty much only in the value of his purchases."

I find that statement false. So in response, I ask you "I don't ever remember Jim telling us how much he paid for any of his cards. Quote some for me please."


As for your most recent post:

"I'm not bitter about not being able to afford certain cards that others have. I know I will probably never own a Wagner. I'm content with that."

I never said anything about you being bitter. Where do you get that from my post?

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  #29  
Old 09-03-2005, 01:39 PM
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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

Is it just me or are we spending more energy on a thread like this than any other (hint) on the board?

Regards,
Black Sox Fan

- - - - - - - - -

I'm Smart Enough To Know, There Are A Lot Of People Who Know More Than I Know

BlackSoxFan.com
email me

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  #30  
Old 09-03-2005, 01:40 PM
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Posted By: DJ

I was going to respond to csmoking but Ted talked me out of it. You are correct Ted.

DJ

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  #31  
Old 09-03-2005, 01:42 PM
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Posted By: cmoking

peace brothers.

can't wait for the auctions for Hurrican Relief. I think that will be neat.

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  #32  
Old 09-03-2005, 01:56 PM
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Posted By: JimB

"Why can't we all just get along?"
Rodney King

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Old 09-03-2005, 01:57 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

I'm sitting here trying to figure out this litinay of attacks I've made against the board that has made me so notorious.

The first altercation I recall was with MW. Don't recall what it was about anymore, but I picked up the title Dunderhead from him. When we met at the National you would have never guessed that we ever exchanged bad words and I probably spent more time at this table talking with him than any other.

I've had my run ins with Scott Forest, but in the end, I still think he's a decent enough guy and have a lot of respect for the knowledge he brings to board.

then there is AJM. What more can be said there.

Anyone else I missed can step up. But be warned, be prepared for a bloody onslaught :-p

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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  #34  
Old 09-03-2005, 01:57 PM
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Posted By: barrysloate

With thousands of people dying needlessly in New Orleans, let's all be thankful that we have good health, a warm place to live, and a little extra money in our pockets to participate in what today seems like a frivilous hobby. How about taking a break from this thread and looking at the bigger picture? There are crises in the world and we are arguing over what? Slabbed cards? Disparate personalities? Let's all lighten up. Sorry to be preachy, it's just how I feel.

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  #35  
Old 09-03-2005, 02:04 PM
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Posted By: steve k

Anyone who states that they are some kind of "pure" baseball card collector and is not interested in the value of their collections, isn't fooling anybody else, they are only trying to fool themselves. Why? - I have no idea. If you've ever paid one penny for a baseball card, or sold a baseball card for one penny, you are then excluded from being a "pure" or whatever term you want to use, collector.

Really, the argument that pure collectors don't think about the value of their cards, is just plain silly. Money is an object in baseball card collecting whether wanting to admit it or not. That being said...yes of course there are degrees of who may be more of a collector versus investor than others...but so what!

Some people should learn to mind their own business...whether a person wants to only collect or invest in baseball cards, or do both is fine with me and should be fine with everybody. We are all part of a great hobby.

Steve

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  #36  
Old 09-03-2005, 02:14 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Jim, I pay attention and learn all the time. You haven't contributed anything my knoweldge of cards since you appeared here. Actually, you really haven't contributed anything other talk about slabbed cards and values of collection that couldn't be found on the CU pages if anyone really cared about that.

I am willing to bet I've forgotten more about collecting baseball cards in the 10 years I was out of the hobby then you currently know. There is more to collecting baseball cards than a plastic slab and where you rank on the registry. Instead of worrying about whether or not I've attacked you, how about you try showing us that you really know something besides plastic slabs because around here we collect cards.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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  #37  
Old 09-03-2005, 02:18 PM
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Posted By: DJ

Are you serious Steve? I consider myself a pure collector and I don't think about the value of my cards. I'm not fooling myself. I know myself better than anyone and I can honestly say that. Don't speak on the behalf of everyone with those kind of statements. This thread will only increase with more friction.

(expletive)! I have to get away from the VBC for a while.

DJ



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  #38  
Old 09-03-2005, 02:18 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Steve, no one has claimed to be a "pure" collector. Jefferson Burdick and the guys from 40s and 50s were probably the last of the "pure" collectors. We are all well aware of the values of our collections. It's just that when people come in and make that their sole focus money, there are gonna be some people that have issues with that because there is more to collecting than just the value of your collection.

Well, guess I'm wrong, DJ made hte claim while I was writing this

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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  #39  
Old 09-03-2005, 02:22 PM
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Posted By: Rob

Why do kids bicker over pieces of cardboard? Why do adults bicker over pieces of old cardboard? Is it like who has the fastest or biggest vehicle? Some sort 'compensation'?

No offense, but who the hell fights over pieces of cardboard?

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  #40  
Old 09-03-2005, 02:26 PM
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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Imagine the perfect world... Imagine complete harmony and homogenous thought... WAKE UP!!!

There's always going to be differences... it boils down to how we all play in this virtual sandbox together...

Jay - Are you an antagonist? With that said... Bonds does roids...!!! just kidding (I should have used the past tense - ok, just kidding again).

It's a public forum and something that some people don't realize is that "tone" can easily be misunderstood. It's difficult to present "tone" in cases when people write a quick two or three sentence reply without a lot of consideration. Something compleltely innocent is misinterpreted and then we have discontent.

If there's a better board, please point me in that direction so that I can compare it to this one. I'll probably be a bit disappointed in the other board.

I guess this thread could be used for suggestions to improve the board...

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  #41  
Old 09-03-2005, 02:33 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Bonds has 'roids? OMG!!! No wonder he has been unable to play.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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  #42  
Old 09-03-2005, 02:37 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Here's a thought. Jim keeps saying we don't know him. How about if he posts about something other than plastic, money and supposed personal attacks by me. That's all we have to go on so far, so he really can't complain about us not knowing him is that is all he ever posts about. That's all we have to go on.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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  #43  
Old 09-03-2005, 03:45 PM
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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

It's pretty arrogant to assume that "rich" people would be attacked on this board because others are jealous of what they can't have. I'm not jealous of anyone's PSA 8 1951 Bowman set-- couldn't care less.

Jay's point of 12:49 PM is exactly right: nobody here is "attacking" Hal, Jay Miller, or most others with fantastic megabucks collections. Why? Because they don't appear to think of themselves as superior collectors because they can afford more. And that's just exactly how most of Jim Crandell's posts do come across. To Jim "Advanced" equals monetary value.

That's the long and short of the issue, right there.

All this "class warfare" stuff is beside the point, and a bit silly compared to what's happening elsewhere in the country (not that Barry's initial post in this thread wasn't painfully acute in many ways)

Tim

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  #44  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:08 PM
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Posted By: T206Collector

Tim. (Shortest post ever.)

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  #45  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:14 PM
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Posted By: bruce dorskind



What makes America great, all of our faults aside, is that we all
have the opportunity to achieve.

Only in America can a kid from anywhere (just ask Bill Clinton)
grow up to be President.

I have been in this hobby for 26 years.

Many of the people with great collections were self made entrepreneurs,
and many were men of very modest means.

Many great collections were owned by people of limited means,
chemists, school teachers, Topps Gum employees and two postman.

I know, I visited their homes, or in some cases trailers, and traded
cards.

The fact that someone is worth $10,000 or $100,000,000
has little to with his collection.

The fact that some of us are agressive and go after what we want is
simply a personal decision about allocating resources.

The same people that criticize successful businessman who choose
to collect PSA 9 Goudey Cards are the same people who complain
about working more than 35 hours a week or wondering why they
never get a break.

Nearly everyone has had a chance to achieve fame and greatness in
their lives---and those who worked hundred hours every week
while others watched and complained should not be attacked because they
are successful.

The personal, inappropriate comments of a few members on The Board
who complain about high prices do not reflect the Darwinan nature of
the world in which we live.

If you want to complain, why don't you complain about the Chinese or
The Indians who in a few short years, through massive effort and incredible
hard work have captured so much of the world's wealth.

I say God Bless all the Google Billionares, and those collectors with
the extraordinary vision, taste and courage to do whatever it takes
to build the finest collections in the world.

Without a Guggenheim or a JP Morgan...the world certainly would not be able
to share in the great masterpieces of Western History.

Look at Burick's collection in the MET or Spalding's collection in the NY
Public Library or Sir Wharton Tigar's Collection at the British Mueseum
or a large piece of the Barry Halper or Frank Steele Collection at
the Baseball of Fame.

Perhaps, those who complain, should take a long look in the mirror.


Your comments welcome


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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  #46  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:16 PM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

Steve--right you are.

Jay--sorry to disappoint you but my posts will probably concern graded cards--obviously the future of the hobby(and for that matter most of the present) with a few posts about the value of graded cards thrown in just to piss you off.

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  #47  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:18 PM
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Posted By: T206Collector

How can you post about the best collections out there omit cards graded by, for example, SGC? Compare the following:

http://www.psacard.com/set%5Fregistry/display_rsets.chtml?setid=83&numberofcurrentsets=5000&listname=current

http://www.sgccardregistry.com/index.asp?action=2&setcategory=1&setid=243

On this comparison alone there are two T206 collections that never get any credit -- look at the two SGC T206 collections at or above 98%.

I just tend to have an issue with your posts because they are PSA slanted, and ignore other graded issues (SGC, GAI) and the value of unslabbed collections.

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  #48  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:28 PM
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Posted By: JimCrandell

T206 Collector,

Are you saying that any of the SGC T206 sets rival Louchios's T206 collection?

First, I don't think there are many GAI complete high-grade sets so lets exclude them.

Secondly, SGC--I love em. While there are some outstanding individual sets, not aware of anyone who can rival the big PSA collectors in terms of breadth of collection.

non-graded--forget it.

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  #49  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:46 PM
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Posted By: jay behrens

Jim, in all seriousness, what do you have to offer this board? I'm not saying you shouldn't post here, but you've contributed nothing to further anyone's knowledge, but have proven to be a major sore point since your appearance. With your last post you've made it abundantly clear that unslabbed cards are not real, and if they don't come from PSA are marginally valid. This is why people think you are condescending and pompous horse's patoot.

Jay

My place is full of valuable, worthless junk.

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  #50  
Old 09-03-2005, 04:54 PM
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Posted By: BlackSoxFan

The only "reason", if you can call it that, that the most valuable ungraded collection is worth less than the most valuable graded collection is because an ungraded collection isn't graded!!!! Gee doesn't that make sense... by the way...aren't there other topics on the board .... That's because this whole grading thing has done whacky things to prices...i would be much less than surprised, and border on certain, that if you were to grade that said collection, it would dwarf the graded collection! To assume that every big time collector gets things authenticated is i think a bit of a stretch!

Regards,
Black Sox Fan

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I'm Smart Enough To Know, There Are A Lot Of People Who Know More Than I Know

BlackSoxFan.com
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