Ty Cobb- Would He Have Gotten Into the Hall in 1929

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

The HOF had their first group of inductees in 1936 and of course Ty Cobb was in the first group of super-stars that got in. Cobb was vilified in his time and was hated by even his teammates. If the Hall didn't have a waiting period and the Hall opened in 1929 would Ty Cobb have gotten in immediately?

Peter C.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ken McMillan

probably.

[Archive]

Posted By: Mark L

Of course. Without a doubt. Despite the rumors about gambling. Now why is this a question?

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

Cobb finished his career with the Athletics and he was hated by teammates and had a love hate relationship with the fans. It's true that the sportswriters liked him because he gave them plenty to write about, but most of it was pretty negative stuff. I would say that it would be unlikely that he would go in with the first group but probably would have gotten in at later date.

Peter C.

[Archive]

Posted By: James Feagin

Revisionist speculation. Who cares?

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

Also at the time, the stats weren't all important like they are now. Cy Young with 511 wins didn't get in with the first group.

Peter C.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe_G.

That question is absurd. Of course Cobb would have made it first ballot. Be it 1929 or 1936, Cobb would have received more votes than anyone. The 1936 vote was as follows:

226 ballots cast, 170 required to be elected (75%)

- 221 Ty Cobb (97.8%)
- 215 Babe Ruth (95.1%)
- 215 Honus Wagner (95.1%)
- 205 Christy Mathewson (91.1%)
- 189 Walter Johnson (83.6%)

missing 1st ballot

- 146 Nap Lajoie (64.6%)
- 133 Tris Speaker (58.8%)
- 111 Cy Young (49.1%)

And so on . . .

Ty Cobb would have made it first ballot regardless of the year.

That's my opinion, and I don't even collect Cobb, that stuff is too new.

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

[Archive]

Posted By: Brett

Babe Ruth retired in 1935 and the first players to be inducted into the HOF was in 1936 and Ty Cobb still had more votes right after Ruth retired. I think its clear that Cobb would still have more votes regardless of the year.

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

I basically go with Bill James theory on Hall of Famers, after a period of time people forget what an ornery SOB Cobb was and go with the numbers. So in 1929 he wouldn't have been in the first group, but in 1936 he would be.

Peter C.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay wolt

"So in 1929 he wouldn't have been in the first group, but in 1936 he would be."

Peter where do you come up w/ this crap?
Its about abilty and #'s not a popularity contest.
Cobb would be elected easily in any year he was on the ballot be in 1929 or 1999.

Edited for typo

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

I think people can not like but respect a player. Every knows Cobb was not the most likable fellow, but everyone respected him as a ball player. Played hard, long and well. Many NFL linebackers are ornery, but most don't even consider that a detraction. ... I think personality defects are considered a problem when they effect play (Darryl Strawberry, Denny McLain). There was nothing wrong with Cobbs' play.

In 1928, Cobb would have been ranked as the best or second best player ever, and would have been voted in right away.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

Peter ... Where do you dig these up from? ......

You can't possibly top this one.

Allow me to give you the title of your book.

"Idle Thoughts by Peter C"

[Archive]

Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Joe,

It would only contain a title page.

Greg

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

Knowing Peter's tastes, I assumed this was connected to Barry Bonds.

I don't think Cobb was as mean and hated as people today make him out to be. Most people don't known he never beat cripples on Sundays.

[Archive]

Posted By: J Levine

Just for the record, the voting was 1936 but they were not technically "inducted or enshrined" until 1939.

What is more interesting is why these future HOFers only got 1 vote that first vote!

Baker, Clarke, Crawford, Dean, Gehringer, Hartnett, Mack, Marquad, and Vance.

I do understand some of these getting one vote but Mack, Gehringer, and Crawford?

BTW, in 1936 Joe Jackson got 2 votes.

The list of people who missed it the first time is impressive...
Alexander, Speaker, Young, Lajoie, Hornsby, Cochrane, Sisler, Collins, Gehrig, Foxx, Terry, Brown, Evers, Chance, McGraw, Schalk, Bresnahan, and Bender.

I am not shocked Cobb got in...players hated him for his antics but they respected him more for his playing ability than anything else.

Joshua

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

cobb ABSOLUTELY would have been elected in 1929.

next topic please.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Had Cobb been at the National this year, would he have waited to buy an autographed Barry Bonds Upper Deck card until Barry actually tied Aaron? And if Bud Selig had been commissioner in 1939, would he have attended the induction ceremonies? If Cobb were alive today, would he read The Card? If he were seen with a copy of The Card, would the value of his T206 cards be impacted? If Bobby Bonds had named his son Billy instead of Barry, would Aaron's record still be in jeopardy?

There, I think I've covered everything for you, Peter.

Next topic: If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason L

Boy, Peter C, you're taking a beating for this one...
these can be fun topics...but I read the same thing as Dadvidcycleback did, which was more of a "Is Barry Bonds the modern-day Ty Cobb?"

Not sure about the answer to that...I wonder if everyone hated Cobb so much, were they afraid to say so at the time? I cringe everytime I hear a player interviewed about Bonds and you just know they really aren't saying what's on their mind.

Edited: Oh, sorry, Rob...not to ignore you. I would be a Walnut tree, because I would like to have large nuts and be prized for my wood.

[Archive]

Posted By: JK

While I personally dont think there is much to discuss here (yes, cobb would be in, there shouldnt be any debate about that) and perhaps a smartass comment or two are appropriate, I think some of the more personal attacks toward Peter above are completely unwarranted.

[Archive]

Posted By: Neal Kane

enjoy frozen pizza if it was available back in the day?

Chaoism is a fascinating philosophy.

[Archive]

Posted By: PS

Peter C. -- you have hit an all time low with this one.

Truly.

For a presumably serious collector of vintage cards, this was just plain silly.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay wolt

Here is the back of a 1927 York Caramel card on Cobb.
It was clear to everyone how great a player he was when
he was playing. To think that in 2 years that his stats
would diminish to the fans & voters is insane.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian

I like applesauce.

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

Onto more important topics---

Jay- how was the Nat'l?

i'm home sick today, let me know when i can call you to chat.

MVS

[Archive]

Posted By: jay wolt

Mike - as everyone has stated the Nat'l was great.
Shoot me a call late afternoon and I'll fill ya in on the specifics.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

......
......
......

There. Now I have added more to a rational discussion on vintage baseball than Peter has. (Note smiley)

[Archive]

Posted By: joe brennan

Froto Lives.

In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

You are perceptive, I was going to come around to Barry. Remember our discussion today when Barry's turn for the HOF comes around.

Peter C.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Look, we would have to know if the Hall election was pre or post Crash and what role, if any, Cobb played in it. Also, Cobb's chances would be influenced by the specific day the election were held. Astrologers and numerologists would have to be consulted.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

"Imagine ... if Cobb used Steroids?" ............

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

Joe,

Cobb was known to bend the rules as far as he could. If the umpire wasn't watching he would sometimes bypass 3d base on his way to home plate, I've little doubt that he would have taken steroids if they were available.

Peter C.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

That was a favorite tactic of Mike King Kelly to skip third, but I have never heard this accusation against Cobb. Do you have a cite for that Peter?

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

Dan,

I'll look it up and get back to you in a day or two.

Peter C.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

During the early days, many players would by pass bases.

Why do you think that they added umpires to every base?

Give us an indication that you've studied the history of the game, or change your source.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

Peter doesn't have a site, he just says whatever comes to his head.

[Archive]

Posted By: Marc S.

<<I've little doubt that he would have taken steroids if they were available.

Peter C.>>

Mike Schmidt (who is my favorite player of all-time) basically came out and said that if he had the opportunity to use steroids and knew MLB would not discipline him, maybe he would have taken him, too. Are we know turning into the thought police based upon a characterization of Cobb from 75 years ago?

Cobb and Babe Ruth played together in charity golf tournaments. He was a successful investor in the stock markets. He also established an educational fund. Cobb was many things -- some not so great, some better than any others. Looking at him from one perspective is not going to persuade anyone.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

But you have to understand the Peter C mind. .........

[Archive]

Posted By: PAS

Is that a contradiction in terms? Edited to add

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

I've been told that there are certain people on this board that don't like smilies.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian

<<But you have to understand the Peter C mind. .........>>


What an unreasonable statement.





Edited to add a

Edited to add a second

Edited to add a third

Edited to remove the third (it was played out)

Edited to add the previously removed third (What the heck!)

[Archive]

Posted By: Bill K@sel

Either Peter has some serious hatred towards Cobb, or serious man-love for Barry.

If only they had the Internets available to the voters in 1936 and previous years where youtube images and video of Cobb skipping third base, injecting HGH into his rear, and body slamming pit bulls who refused to fight him in a cage match the voters might have been swayed a bit. As it were all they had were smoke signals and pony express to get the news across the country....wait, maybe that was for Kelly....now I'm confused. :-|

Had my parents not been Catholic my point would be moot and irrelevant.

Will Barry get in the Hall? I really don't care. It won't change my opinion of him and it won't affect my love of the dead-ball era.

Bill

[Archive]

Posted By: Jason L

but I do know that Cobb would have had no trouble getting in last year, when only Mr. Sutter garnered enough votes. That is some serious lack of competition.

Parenthetical silliness: (Of course, most don't know this, but Sutter had to get in, simply to validate Sandberg's entry, since most of his qualifications centered around his performance against Sutter in that single 1984 twilight game at Wrigley Field!)

If Barry is elected into the HOF and no one is around to care about it, will he still be a HOFer?
Answer: Only if Mastro auctions off his travel kit

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

It could not have been Prof Peter C. ........
For you see ......
He is too busy trying to eliminate Cleveland from being one of the national's alternating cities.
He claims that Cleveland is a disaster, and doesn't desreve another shot.

What puzzles me Dr Watson is:
That most people heard from, had a great time at the Cleveland show, and found cards that they never expected to see. ... but what do they know.

Prof Peter C wasn't there, and that's what counts.

Dr Watson ... did you just barf? ...............

[Archive]

Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Anyone care to speculate the impact on current prices of vintage cards if we were to assume Cobb would have used steroids? And would that help sales of "The Card?"

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

But in your wildest imagination, can you imagine what his records, and numbers would have been? .......

[Archive]

Posted By: Ed Ivey

If Cobb had used steroids.....

.367*

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Pomilla

I don't even want to THINK about Ty Cobb with "'roid rage".

[Archive]

Posted By: PAS

He would have climbed a mountain to punch an echo.

Always loved that description of him.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I wonder how much of Cobb's statistics are directly related to determination and not talent....How good would he have been if he hadn't been hazed as a rookie?

[Archive]

Posted By: paulstratton

...plus his Mom blew his Dad away("Don't come home a failure.") and he was still pissed about the Civil War.