The Wagner

[BigJJ]

It appears PSA uses wording along the lines of 'they will not grade a card that shows evidence of trimming'. Perhaps they will argue that although they may have suspected that the card was trimmed, the card did not in fact show evidence of trimming. Importantly, would need to look at PSA's wording in 1991, when the card was graded.

How was the Wagner cut? With what mechanism? Curious, if anyone knows. The card was cut exceptionally well.

The next sale of the Wagner will be the first with all information front and center. Will be interesting to see what the card sells for.
Is there any way that the current owner did not know the back story? before spending $3 million, usually a lot of due diligence, outside of direct representations/auction catalogues. And the story was out there in our internet age.

[Boccabella]

Quite certain he knew...and didn't care. I honestly don't believe the value of this card will be affected at all by the latest developments. No matter what its history, it's still the best looking Wagner out there and very desirable for many.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Boccabella

Quite certain he knew...and didn't care. I honestly don't believe the value of this card will be affected at all by the latest developments. No matter what its history, it's still the best looking Wagner out there and very desirable for many.

I concur.

I should add that instead of affecting the value "at all" it could certainly affect it some. The only way to know for sure is have the card re-holdered in an AUT holder and try to sell it. Of course everything else is conjecture. Not too many of us really know what mindset goes with buying a 2.8M baseball card.



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[Wite3]

Not sure if they knew it was trimmed when initially graded but certainly knew shortly after at the Anaheim national when more people had a chance to see it up close and compare it to other t206s.

Joshua

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Boccabella

Quite certain he knew...and didn't care. I honestly don't believe the value of this card will be affected at all by the latest developments. No matter what its history, it's still the best looking Wagner out there and very desirable for many.

Yes. It always amazes me when vintage card collectors post here, 'wondering' if the Wagner was trimmed. Maybe it's just stirring the pot when they post such stuff, but it's hard to believe anyone isn't aware of this story by now.

Damn, buy the book - it's an entertaining read and it concerns the icon card of our hobby. And it apparently would be educational to many here.

[GrayGhost]

Book was GREAT, and I DO feel the value will be compromised to a degree. It is a GORGEOUS card but is STILL TRIMMED and should only be graded an A by SGC or however PSA grades Trimmed authentic cards.

still, would take me ten lifetimes to own something like that

[benchod]

Well I don't want to speak for him but I'm pretty sure Brian Siegel did not know the back story at the time. I believe he became aware in time and the disillusionment led to him selling the Wagner as well as his other high grade cards

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by benchod

Well I don't want to speak for him but I'm pretty sure Brian Siegel did not know the back story at the time. I believe he became aware in time and the disillusionment led to him selling the Wagner as well as his other high grade cards

Even Gretzky knew. Siegel bought it in 2000, after Mike's board was well-established and the collectors here were talking about the Wagner. He's a smart guy and I'm sure did not have his head buried in the sand, with his hand sticking out with a wad of cash.

[drc]

Even if flawed, it's taken on a life of its own. Some things are famous for being famous-- Mona Lisa, Elvis, the Gretzky Wagner.

Rather, some would call it the Elvis of cards and some would call it the Justin Bieber.

[Forever Young]

People get ready, there's a train a comin...

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Boccabella

Quite certain he knew...and didn't care. I honestly don't believe the value of this card will be affected at all by the latest developments. No matter what its history, it's still the best looking Wagner out there and very desirable for many.

so a restored wagner with built up corners and repaired creases would look fabulous too, but we know what doing that did to the value of that card, that ended up as an A, even though it's fantabulous looking.

[Boccabella]

Not the same thing. This card was cut from the original sheet it was printed on. Nothing phony was applied to it.

Die hard, by the book, "serious" card collectors will cry foul. Many others who do not religiously collect by the book and simply want it because it's rare, iconic and famous don't care. Many of them are also rare, iconic and famous. They're also wealthy.

Famous and/or wealthy people collect things because they think those things are cool and famous and some love the attention those things may bring them. They are not the least bit interested that the set collectors and message board regulars are having fits.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

People get ready, there's a train a comin...

The Chambers Brothers did this the best,, anyone besides me remember them and their version of this song?

[mr2686]

yep Richard, I remember them. I also liked Time Has Come Today. Damn I'm getting old.

[Gary Dunaier]

Trimming notwithstanding, wouldn't the fact that this specific card has such a story behind it add to its value?

[LWMM]

Originally Posted by Gary Dunaier

Trimming notwithstanding, wouldn't the fact that this specific card has such a story behind it add to its value?

I would think so; at the very least, I doubt the value will go down. After all, are people really buying a T206 Wagner any more, or an object with a story behind it? As Rich said, it's "rare, iconic and famous", and it seems to be an unending source of attention. Now, tied up in an FBI investigation, it just has bolstered its pre-existing claim to notoriety.

[Rob L]

Originally Posted by mr2686

yep Richard, I remember them. I also liked Time Has Come Today. Damn I'm getting old.

Great song. Check this out, the best remake of Time has Come Today that I've heard, and by a huge card collector (RIP):


www.youtube.com/watch?v=wanoXM90yHE

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Rob L

Great song. Check this out, the best remake of Time has Come Today that I've heard, and by a huge card collector (RIP):


www.youtube.com/watch?v=wanoXM90yHE

That entire album is great. Gets panned because it's uncharacteristically polished, but I like it.

[mr2686]

Wow...I was and am a very big fan of the Ramones early stuff (in fact, I saw them at a small Hollywood club on one of their first West Coast tours back in the 70's) and I never knew they did this song. Very cool. RIP Johnny, Joey and Dee Dee.

[Rob L]

Originally Posted by Runscott

That entire album is great. Gets panned because it's uncharacteristically polished, but I like it.

Yup. One of my favorites, but Rocket to Russia rules the roost!!