Ebbets field Ticket stub question (Night Game)

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Posted By: Dave

Hi thanks in advance for any help. This stub is from 1938-1942. Macphail was president. I have 2 questions is there a way to narrow it down to what year. Also the rain check statement on the back states it can be exchanged for any championship game. Was this a world series ticket? there is a simular one on ebay that the seller states is the first night game ever at ebbet's field and asking 1200.00 (260273301222), but without a date how can you be certain. Thanks again Dave

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Posted By: MVSNYC

i can't date it...but it's very cool. are you looking to sell it?

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Posted By: barrysloate

I'm remembering 1938, but I could be wrong. Bruce D. knows this ticket well, hopefully he can add something.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

What we now call "regular season games," were, a long while back, called "championship games," because they counted towards the league championship.

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Posted By: Aaron M.

I have one of those tickets as well -- one of my favorite pieces. They are definitely from 1938 and I know one of these "Night Game" tickets (the order of the games are denoted by that #7 at the bottom) also happened to be the second of Johnny Vander Meer's two cnsecutive no-hitters. The #1 version (i.e., the very first night game at Ebbetts) that is curently being offered on E-Bay is from that game (which means not only is it valuable for it's magnificent die-cut design, but also the extreme historical significance of the no-hitter and the first night game at Ebbets). That said, the colors are off on the E-Bay version and I believe it is a far less valuable proof (if not an outright reprint).

Believe it or not, the real expert here is Bruce Dorskind. He has one of the Vander Meer no-hitter die-cut night-game no hitter stubs in his collection and he would probably be a far better authority on the matter than me.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/feats/featsjv.shtml>

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Posted By: Jodi Birkholm

That would be a nice piece to own. A longtime friend of mine, Tot Pressnell, pitched against Vander Meer in that very game.

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

Dave


In fact, we own the first night game ticket. All night games in 1938 were issued as light bulb tickets.

Beginning in 1938 and for the next several years, through the start of 1941 The Dodgers issued
light bulb tickets Each year the tickets had a slightly different appearance.

Your ticket is from 1938. You would have to check the Dodger Schedule to see whom they were playing
that evening. This was the year that Leland MacPhail took over a struggling Dodger team- to increase
attendance he launched night games and hired Babe Ruth as a coach.

Championship game does not refer to World Series but to a major league game. From time to time exhibition
games were played at Ebbetts Field.

To learn more about MacPhail's Dodgers - read Bruce Chadwick's book The Dodgers published by Abbeville Press
in 1993. Photographer David Spindel did a great job- there is a Dodger 1940 ticket in there which is quite
different from your 1938 ticket.

As for the value for your ticket you could expect to get $300.

The First Night Game no-hitter ticket is extremely rare. We purchased in a fiercely competitive Lelands Live
Auction back in the mid-80's for more than $2500. Properly promoted the current ticket on E Bay
would bring $4000-5000 in a REA or Mastro Auction. We can assure you that it will sell for more than $1500.
The caveat here is that the E Bay ticket is an actual game ticket- not a proof. We can not tell from the scan.

Should you have any further questions, please feel free to write to us directly at bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com


Best


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List


Best,


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: Dave

Thanks Bruce and all. I will check out that book and am a big fan of David Spindels work. There's a great picture of an opening day stub from 1941 in the shape of a catcher.

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Great post, Bruce. Only a couple comments on value:

I think the ticket from the seventh night game pictured at the top of this thread could bring about $700 on E-Bay. The series of die-cut opening day Dodger tickets from this period (the baseball, the catcher, and the glove, all from 1939 - 1941) are very popular and in decent shape tend to sell for at least that much, if not several hundreds of dollars more.

If someone were to have a Vander Meer ticket authenticated and encapsulated by PSA (definitely the wave of the future for tickets), then I could see one going in excess of $3,000, perhas even to the $4,000 to $5,000 range you suggest.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

"...ticket authenticated and encapsulated by PSA (definitely the wave of the future for tickets)..."

Can't collectors tell a genuine ticket without a PSA imprimatur?

Are we to let third parties do all our thinking for us, as many card collectors do?

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Posted By: Mark

I sure hope not, David....

The reason I collect the artistic vintage stuff is to escape the homogenized/mass produced look of today. I personally am repulsed by the fact that a beautiful vintage item could be permantly relegated to a bar-coded modern slab.

What's the point of even displaying it when the overall look becomes so compromised? I collect old pennants.... maybe PSA and Beckett can start making large triangular slabs for pennants (and even grade them), so that we'll no longer have to wonder how nice they really are? To each his own, I suppose...

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

Whilst we have a vast collection of ultra rare baseball memorabilia, including a number of one of one
examples of sheet music, and baseball games, we have found that there is still a great deal of fraud
in the hobby. When one is spending $2,000, $3000 or $25,000 on an item, authenticity is essential.

We have a number of ultra rare tickets and found it helpful to have PSA grade them. In one case
we were able to sell a duplicate for 4 times what we were offered before it was graded.

More recently, we have seen that the major auction houses are insisting that all expensive post cards
and many photos need to be graded.

Whilst we doubt we will ever have to have our Zimmer Game or collection of rare Tuxedo Tobacco
Trolley Car signs graded, we do think grading of tickets and postcards benefits both the buyer and the seller.
Grading is especially helpful to auctioneers like Mastro, REA and Hunt when they sell pieces. Graded items
leave little room for dispute about an item's condition.

We are collectors first, but the baseball memorabilia market is $150 million a year business and if buyers demand
proof of authenticity then items will be graded..


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Sure, Dave. But the issue was reaching a certain price level. Just like baseball cards, tickets that have been graded, authenticated and encapsulated by PSA have been and are going to continue to sell for a premium over ungraded tickets - especially on the higher end levels where a collector may be spending thousands of dollars.

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

The first night game ticket was part of the Smithsonian Tour
"Baseball as America" which ran for a period of nearly two years/

Our records indicate that there a total of 9 tickets known.

Here is the link to the tour exhibit

http://www.baseballasamerica.org/from_the_tour_10.htm


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Well, I have a few quite rare tickets myself, including this one (certainly fewer than 9 known.)

I don't need PSA to tell me its condition, or to verify its authenticity.



I have no intention of having it--or any other of my tickets--slabbed.

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Posted By: Bruce Dorskind

Dave

Whether you choose to have your tickets graded or not is certainly your choice.

We expect that when the time comes to sell (and one never knows what life will
bring regardless of how young, healthy or financially secure one may be) that
your rare tickets will command a far lesser price ungraded than graded.

That's great news for a savvy buyer, but will not do you any good.

However, that said, stick to your guns and do as you wish.

Nice Gehrig ticket stub. We recently were offered a full ticket.


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: David Atkatz

I've never been interested in full tickets, Bruce. They have nothing at all to do with the event in question.

A ticket stub was there. That Gehrig stub was in someone's pocket, at the Stadium, while Gehrig gave his speech.

The full ticket was never there.

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Posted By: barrysloate

That's an interesting conundrum, David.

A stub should be more valuable than a full ticket because it was witness to an event. But if that were the case, every surviving full ticket would be torn in half and made to look like a stub.

So it is impossible to have a situation where full tickets aren't worth more. Admittedly they are scarcer than stubs, but they have far less historical relevance.

A vexing problem indeed.

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Posted By: David Atkatz

Excellent point, Barry, regarding prices. Never thought of that.

I'm in a good position, though--not being interested in the higher-priced full tickets.