USPS lost package--please keep an eye out

[nolemmings]

I'm sorry to report that the post office apparently lost the following John McGraw card somewhere between Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix and its destination in the Bay Area of California:


The package was insured but both the buyer and I would rather see that the card somehow survived. It is surely an unusual card -- I'm not sure there are any other known examples, at least in that condition. It bothers me a lot that it may be lost to the ages.

Please let me know if you ever see this card.

[Beatles Guy]

Ouch. Here's hoping it turns up. What a great card.

[calvindog]

I like the card. If somehow that package ends up in NYC and I get my hands on it, I'm sending back a check only.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by calvindog

i like the card. If somehow that package ends up in nyc and i get my hands on it, i'm sending back a check only.

lol

[Jay Wolt]

Todd, That sucks! Hope it finally gets to its destination

[Huysmans]

What a huge loss to you Todd, and the hobby.
My condolences, I really hope it turns up.

Regards,
Brent

[Louieman]

I'll be sure to post if the card somehow ends up at my doorstep (I'm the buyer), but I think I have a better chance of finding it myself the next time I go slot canyon hiking in AZ. Anyone work at the Phoenix Intl Airport? Check the tarmac!

[calvindog]

I've had the PO lose packages I've sent out for WEEKS -- and then show up. I bet this one comes back in one piece. If it does, whoever bought can make a few bucks by selling it to me. It's a spectacular card.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I recently had a package lost in San Francisco, zip code 94109.

The tracking number (VH612736607US) shows is was 'Out for Delivery' but never delivered (or signed for).

I had to file a claim with USPS.

[ethicsprof]

I'm so sorry to hear about this.
I'll certainly be on the alert as I do my card scouting on the internet.
This card is such a beautiful rarity.

wishing you all the best, Todd

Barry

[camlov2]

How long has it been missing?
I had a package disappear and they told me I had to wait for 30 days before it was considered lost. I went into the post office after about 35 days to get my shipping charges refunded (it wasn't insured), they went to the computer and told me it had arrived that day. That transaction has probably earned the usps hundreds of dollars from me, I now insure many packages I wouldn't have in the past.

[Runscott]

Sorry to hear about the loss, but I can now fantasize about how good McGraw would look with my collection of much more obscure subjects, although the Uruguay soccer team is pretty cool:

[sox1903wschamp]

Sweet card! Hope it shows up.

[Louieman]

UPDATE: I just noticed the missing card has been listed up on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1928-Tabacal...3D816966095927

What do you guys suggest that we do?

[1880nonsports]

" I specialize in bulk merchandise and lost freight"

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by Louieman

UPDATE: I just noticed the missing card has been listed up on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1928-Tabacal...3D816966095927

What do you guys suggest that we do?

I'd contact the US Postal Inspection Service ASAP.

https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/c...s/phoneus.aspx

[timn1]

Holy crap! Todd, are you out there? Don't blow a gasket when you see this-

[pkaufman]

I would contact the Cobb County Sheriff's Office in Marietta , GA 770-499-4600 regarding the possession/sale of stolen mdse.

[pawpawdiv9]

It about a 30 minute ride, Do you want me to knock his door down with guns a blazing?

[Louieman]

Guns blazing, politely knocking, yeah whatever works lol

[7nohitter]

This just got really interesting! Stolen? Is the current ebay seller a postal employee?

[nolemmings]

Hi guys--thanks for the info. Both the Postal Inspector and Cobb County GA sheriff's office send me to voice mail, the latter allowing for emergency transfers but I chose not to speak to the desk sergeant, at least not yet. I have no number for Ebay--all I get is an infernal web loop -- I wanted to alert them that they may hear from law enforcement and to ask what else they might suggest.

I was sent a form letter months ago, telling me the mailing label had become separated from the package and returning the label to me. Oddly, to me anyway, the tape is still intact right along three sides of the label's edge, as if it had been cut off with a box-cutter or other precision tool--there was no tearing, no tape beyond the label and no paper remnants from the USPS flat rate box. I was given a form to fill out so that they could check to see if it would match the contents of an unidentified package at some facility in Georgia where all such packages (labels separated from box) are sent. Not long ago I received word that they were unsuccessful in locating my package--I hope I still have that notice. Now here it is for sale in GA from a guy who states he specializes in "bulk merchandise and lost freight". Hmmm.

[pkaufman]

Todd, I only mentioned the Sheriff's Office because they might have already been aware of this guy for this type of thing and/or could go right out and seize the suspect item to prevent its "disposition". Paul

[calvindog]

I'm not sure what's worse, that the guy stole Todd's card or that he's selling it for about 6x Todd's price a couple years back.

[Buythatcard]

How do you know whether the seller is the one who stole it? Is it possible that they received the card from the original thief unaware of the card's history.

Do you think it might be a good idea to contact the seller and ask them how they came about this card?

I have had cards stolen from me via the USPS several times and I've always searched them out on eBay to see if I can catch the thief. This is the first time that I have ever seen this happen. I hope that you track down this thief.

[nolemmings]

Hi Howard,

I've actually had stolen cards returned to me twice-- once by the PD in Phoenix and the other by the Sheriff's Dept. in Flagstaff. I also had some others appear at a show in Phoenix and a board member/dealer here tipped me off, leading to their return. Finally, I once "won" the Ebay auction for a stolen card and showed up at the seller's shop (a coin dealer in Phoenix) and told them I'd been in contact the local PD, leading to that card's return--although I paid him some amt he claimed to have in it to be fair. Given all these events, I don't know if I should consider myself very lucky or very unlucky.

BTW, I have contacted the seller.

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

How do you know whether the seller is the one who stole it? Is it possible that they received the card from the original thief unaware of the card's history.

Do you think it might be a good idea to contact the seller and ask them how they came about this card?

I have had cards stolen from me via the USPS several times and I've always searched them out on eBay to see if I can catch the thief. This is the first time that I have ever seen this happen. I hope that you track down this thief.

[Buythatcard]

Todd,

I consider that you are lucky that you were able to track down some of these cards. I would love to just once be able to bring someone down for stealing from me.

I had multiple packages go lost(stolen) on me all from the same PO. It happened over a few weeks. I contacted the PO. Postmaster and anyone else that I was suppose to contact but nothing was ever done. I watched Craiglist and eBay for weeks hoping to see the cards out there but never did.

I hope for the best regarding the McGraw card. This will be a victory for all of us if you can get this card back and also catch the thief.

[autograf]

I'm a UPS guy and our 'overgoods' location is in Atlanta. Goods that can't be repatriated with their owners are gathered by type and sold by the palett. I think it's possible that he may have bought the card in a lot of cards from USPS in a similar situation. We log each unidentifiable shipment into a system that is searchable and people try to marry up the goods with the shipper, I would contact the seller for more info for sure though.......we don't sell the goods till a certain time, well after claims have been paid on them.....

[HerbK]

Hey Todd,

I'm sorry to hear of your ordeal. When you get a chance, read my thread below. I think you're going to find out that this guy is legit. It's the same dealer who I had contact with and after him explaining to me in great detail what he does, his story checked out. I made many calls to verify this. This guy just buys skids in bulk - he's not the bad guy -- the USPS is. After I checked out this individual, I felt comfortable enough to make a deal with him off eBay for the card and it all worked out fine.

One thing to keep in mind (which stuck out in mine), his acquisition of the CJ was recent enough that it still showed on eBay's completed listings. He contacted the original seller (Andy) to see if he wanted to work out a deal on the card. Who in their right mind, would contact the seller of a lost/stolen card while in possession of stolen property -- on line -- in an attempt to work out a deal? It just doesn't make any sense. Tracking him down on eBay with stolen property would be very easy for law enforcement.

His feedback (showing the various items he acquires) would also lead one to believe, he's dealing in a variety of hodge-podge.

Please feel free to contact me if I can be of any help.

Herb.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=194677

[edjs]

I see the e-bay listing ended. Anyone know what happened?

[Louieman]

I'm in communications with the seller, so I'll update on this thread in a few days once things are sorted out

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by Louieman

I'm in communications with the seller, so I'll update on this thread in a few days once things are sorted out

Louie,

Why are you in communication with the seller? What is your role in this situation?

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

Louie,

Why are you in communication with the seller? What is your role in this situation?

He was the buyer of the card when it got lost or stolen in the mail.

[Leon]

The USPS has Postal Inspectors for external issues and Postal Agents for internal issues. I have spoken with both many times. We had 2 cards "lost" from one of our auctions and saw them a year or so later on ebay (one was an E107 and one was a V100 Bottomley). The person selling them on ebay was just the person selling them. It was a USPS employee that consigned our stolen cards to that person. That is one time I got to speak with a Postal Agent as the postal employee seemed to be a thief.

[7nohitter]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

He was the buyer of the card when it got lost or stolen in the mail.

Thanks, Cliff! I must've missed that, just didn't know what the connection was!

[nolemmings]

An update on my end, and maybe my last post on the subject. I had a pleasant and rational ebay exchange with the seller, who explained how it is he came into possession of the card. As others suspected, he acquired it by auction from the USPS in Georgia. I explained my position on the card, and how it had been sold to a board member in California, only to be lost, and that I had received a notice from USPS that they had found the mailing label but no box. Per their form, I specifically requested that they try and match any unopened packages with the contents of mine, i.e, the 1928 McGraw, a large photocopy of which I provided. This was back in November, and about a month ago I received a letter from them stating my contents could not be found.

It seems they were not all that thorough in their search, and that my card was among the many items they auction off in bulk to people like this ebay seller. After discussing it with the seller and explaining my transaction with Louie, he agreed to consider selling it to him under the terms I had sold it previously. Inasmuch as I already had received payment and the insurance had paid for the loss, I was not really out anything, nor was Louie. I am happiest that the card survived and remains available to the hobby instead of being forever lost or destroyed. I am also glad to report that this seller appears to be upstanding and reasonable, and I hope Louie gets his card--I'll let him take it from here.

[Louieman]

And to continue with what Todd just said, the seller is fulfilling that transaction with me right now. And hopefully in a day or two, *knock on wood*, I'll have some great news to share. I also wanted to mention that the seller, as far as I've seen, is completely legit and reasonable, and is in the likeness of what Tom (autograf) and HerbK were saying. He told me he'd like to post on this thread as well, so hopefully in a couple of days we can Kumbaya this thread with happy campers, a beautiful card, tales of redemption, all that good stuff. Hopefully.

[christopher.herman]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

I am happiest that the card survived and remains available to the hobby instead of being forever lost or destroyed.

+1

[edjs]

Man, this just became a great story. Love it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by edjs

Man, this just became a great story. Love it.

+1

[arcaiser]

Good day all. Brian here. I am new to the forum as of this whole event transpiring, and wanted to follow up and clear the air. Forgive me if this gets a little lengthy but I want to give everyone some useful information regarding their shipments.

To start, my name is Brian Bell, I have been buying and reselling pallets of lost freight from the USPS, UPS, as well as airline lost luggage for over 10 years. I also happen to be a sports card collector, and regularly buy bulk merchandise from shops that are going out of business and people that are getting out of the hobby. If any of you are on any vintage groups on Facebook, or Masters of Cards razz network, you have likely seen me post and sell at some point.

Now to lost freight: When items are lost in the mail, they end up in the mail recovery center. This can happen in a number of ways, including but not limited to bad addresses, damaged goods that had insurance claims paid, items that were ripped open on a conveyor belt and separated from their label, and items requiring a signature that were not picked up within 30 days and don't have a return address. This is by no means an exhaustive list, but you get the point. Please understand when an item ends up at the MRC, there are literally thousands of items there, so to expect someone to take each one and search the net looking for the owner is beyond unreasonable. If the item has something attached to it that makes the sender or recipient identifiable, the post office will go to great lengths to return the product to the rightful owner. Many times there is nothing that would prove to whom the item belongs. When that happens, the item is deemed dead mail, and is confiscated as property of the US Postal service, who then auctions it off in bulk pallets. UPS, Fed Ex, and the airlines do the same thing they just have a 30 day process to file paperwork before they can auction because they are not government organizations. You do not have to like or agree with this process, but you do have to understand that it is 100% legal and would hold up in a court of law. From the moment the auction is finalized, the winning bidder becomes the LEGAL owner of all products on that pallet.

Now as I said, I am a card collector, I have personally lost high dollar cards in the mail before and I know it sucks. As such, when I receive high end cards, I always take the time to personally scour eBay and blowout card forums to see if I can track down the original owner. As a new member of Net54 I wills start searching here as well. I am a completely reasonable person, and will always try to reunite the card to the original owner at a fair price if the person is not completely rude and tries to work with me. I get a huge variety of merchandise including cards, electronics, video games, clothes, shoes, and all sorts of other items. Cards are the only thing that I try to unit with their original owners, because again, I am a collector and I would want that done for me. I have received a number of messages from members on this forum calling me a thief, a liar, a cheat, and making all sorts of other presumptions without first asking me in a reasonable and rational manor to explain what happened. I am neither of those things, I am a business man, and a collector.

Lastly, some tips and advice for you sending cards in the future, and tracking them down if they are lost:

1. Cards that are lost in the mail that are not graded or serial numbered would be impossible to reunite with their owners. Anytime I have a card of value or scarcity that would be traceable, I make every effort to do so. If you ever lose a card and want to message me to see if I have it or can keep an eye out for it, feel free.
2. Lots of things in the auctions are damaged beyond repair or use. Just this last auction I received a graded Peyton Manning Autographed rookie and a Chris Paul auto rookie that were absolutely mangled. They went straight to the trash and I do not waste my time looking up buyers of cards that have been destroyed as it would not make any kind of business sense.
3. There are literally hundreds of bidders at the various auctions I go to, just because your item was lost in the mail does not mean I was the guy who won it, and even if I did if it was destroyed when I received it you would never hear from me.
4. I am not under any obligation to reach out to you, or to return "your" card. I am simply a nice guy who likes tries to help anyone who is reasonable and understanding. If you failed to insure your package, and it ends up in my or any other bidders possession, making threats or demands is the surest way to get blocked and never see your card again. I have many friends that do what I do, I am the only one that is a card collector and I get made fun of all the time for reaching out to people when I am often accused of thievery for doing so.
5. The best thing to do if you don't want to lose a card, or anything for that matter, in the mail is to insure it if it is valuable. Things happen, that's life. Also, if your card is graded or in a top loader, attach a sticky note that has the ship to and return to address on the card itself. This way, if your contents are separated from their packaging, you have a much greater chance of being found. This is also not fool proof if the item itself gets caught in a conveyor belt.

Hope this clears up a lot. I look forward to interacting with the group going forward and feel free to reply with follow up questions or message me if you like. I'll be happy to help where I can.

[arcaiser]

PS, I sold this back to Louie for his original purchase price despite having received an offer on eBay for $900 for the card. So if my integrity is still in question in your mind I don't know what to tell you.

[ZachS]

Originally Posted by arcaiser

I have received a number of messages from members on this forum calling me a thief, a liar, a cheat, and making all sorts of other presumptions without first asking me in a reasonable and rational manor to explain what happened. I am neither of those things, I am a business man, and a collector.

Sounds like some people jumped the gun on this one without knowing all the facts. From what I've read from the parties actually involved with this situation it seems like you're an honest and reasonable guy. You were in no way obligated to re-sell the card at it's original purchase price and I doubt that many in your situation would have done so (especially if there was a higher offer on the table).

Welcome aboard, Brian... and shake the haters.

[wazoo]

Great story. And thanks for the advice.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by arcaiser

Good day all. Brian here. I am new to the forum as of this whole event transpiring, and wanted to follow up and clear the air. Forgive me if this gets a little lengthy but I want to give everyone some useful information regarding their shipments.

To start, my name is Brian Bell, I have been buying and reselling pallets of lost freight from the USPS, UPS, as well as airline lost luggage for over 10 years. I also happen to be a sports card collector, and regularly buy bulk merchandise from shops that are going out of business and people that are getting out of the hobby. If any of you are on any vintage groups on Facebook, or Masters of Cards razz network, you have likely seen me post and sell at some point.

Now to lost freight: When items are lost in the mail, they end up in the mail recovery center. This can happen in a number of ways, including but not limited to bad addresses, damaged goods that had insurance claims paid, items that were ripped open on a conveyor belt and separated from their label, and items requiring a signature that were not picked up within 30 days and don't have a return address. This is by no means an exhaustive list, but you get the point. Please understand when an item ends up at the MRC, there are literally thousands of items there, so to expect someone to take each one and search the net looking for the owner is beyond unreasonable. If the item has something attached to it that makes the sender or recipient identifiable, the post office will go to great lengths to return the product to the rightful owner. Many times there is nothing that would prove to whom the item belongs. When that happens, the item is deemed dead mail, and is confiscated as property of the US Postal service, who then auctions it off in bulk pallets. UPS, Fed Ex, and the airlines do the same thing they just have a 30 day process to file paperwork before they can auction because they are not government organizations. You do not have to like or agree with this process, but you do have to understand that it is 100% legal and would hold up in a court of law. From the moment the auction is finalized, the winning bidder becomes the LEGAL owner of all products on that pallet.

Now as I said, I am a card collector, I have personally lost high dollar cards in the mail before and I know it sucks. As such, when I receive high end cards, I always take the time to personally scour eBay and blowout card forums to see if I can track down the original owner. As a new member of Net54 I wills start searching here as well. I am a completely reasonable person, and will always try to reunite the card to the original owner at a fair price if the person is not completely rude and tries to work with me. I get a huge variety of merchandise including cards, electronics, video games, clothes, shoes, and all sorts of other items. Cards are the only thing that I try to unit with their original owners, because again, I am a collector and I would want that done for me. I have received a number of messages from members on this forum calling me a thief, a liar, a cheat, and making all sorts of other presumptions without first asking me in a reasonable and rational manor to explain what happened. I am neither of those things, I am a business man, and a collector.

Lastly, some tips and advice for you sending cards in the future, and tracking them down if they are lost:

1. Cards that are lost in the mail that are not graded or serial numbered would be impossible to reunite with their owners. Anytime I have a card of value or scarcity that would be traceable, I make every effort to do so. If you ever lose a card and want to message me to see if I have it or can keep an eye out for it, feel free.
2. Lots of things in the auctions are damaged beyond repair or use. Just this last auction I received a graded Peyton Manning Autographed rookie and a Chris Paul auto rookie that were absolutely mangled. They went straight to the trash and I do not waste my time looking up buyers of cards that have been destroyed as it would not make any kind of business sense.
3. There are literally hundreds of bidders at the various auctions I go to, just because your item was lost in the mail does not mean I was the guy who won it, and even if I did if it was destroyed when I received it you would never hear from me.
4. I am not under any obligation to reach out to you, or to return "your" card. I am simply a nice guy who likes tries to help anyone who is reasonable and understanding. If you failed to insure your package, and it ends up in my or any other bidders possession, making threats or demands is the surest way to get blocked and never see your card again. I have many friends that do what I do, I am the only one that is a card collector and I get made fun of all the time for reaching out to people when I am often accused of thievery for doing so.
5. The best thing to do if you don't want to lose a card, or anything for that matter, in the mail is to insure it if it is valuable. Things happen, that's life. Also, if your card is graded or in a top loader, attach a sticky note that has the ship to and return to address on the card itself. This way, if your contents are separated from their packaging, you have a much greater chance of being found. This is also not fool proof if the item itself gets caught in a conveyor belt.

Hope this clears up a lot. I look forward to interacting with the group going forward and feel free to reply with follow up questions or message me if you like. I'll be happy to help where I can.

You seem like a really upstanding guy going beyond what most people would do. Thanks for this very informative post. I'll think about adding the return address to the card when I ship things out, perhaps by placing the packaging slip securely with the card so that two stay together even if the card drops out of the package somehow.

[CW]

Originally Posted by glchen

You seem like a really upstanding guy going beyond what most people would do. Thanks for this very informative post. I'll think about adding the return address to the card when I ship things out, perhaps by placing the packaging slip securely with the card so that two stay together even if the card drops out of the package somehow.

I'm going to start doing this as well. #5 on that list is great advice (thanks, Brian).

[Jobu]

Welcome Brian. Thank you for taking the time to post so much information for us. I have always included a packing slip out of fear that the label gets ripped off but I will now start actually taping that slip to the holder, good advice.

I hope you are able to find some cards you like here - and you might even have a new outlet for your sales in our Buy Sell Trade section (no fees!!). I am happy to hear that this situation had a happy ending -- here's to a happy ending for everyone!

[edjs]

Originally Posted by arcaiser

I am a completely reasonable person,

Are you sure you want to be here?

Welcome!

[bn2cardz]

Great advice about putting the address with the card. I have seen some of the bigger sellers do business cards. It is an extra step but one that could be worth the effort even if just once and will try and follow this from now on.

[GoldenAge50s]

--to Net 54 and Thank You for that tremendously informational post! I applaud your honesty & for taking the time to explain your position. Very refreshing in this day & age!