Aaron Judge

[MattyC]

This is a general statement and not directed at anyone in particular.

I get that the flood of data on baseball these days can provide some valuable insight, and it's always been a game that has loved its hallowed stats and records— yet it seems like some fans these days don't even need to watch the game and absorb all there is to absorb about it and the individual human players; they just need their stat sheets and calculators. It's a very dry and one-dimensional way to view the game, and risks missing a lot of pleasurable aspects.

[packs]

I agree 100%. Once I said Bernie Williams was one of the most clutch hitters I've ever seen and someone laughed at me and put up some inane stat to show I was wrong, even though I watched the guy play every day. I was at those games and I knew when Bernie comes up, he's going to put us ahead. But some guy who probably only watched Bernie casually when his team played theirs told me I didn't know what I was talking about.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by MattyC

This is a general statement and not directed at anyone in particular.

I get that the flood of data on baseball these days can provide some valuable insight, and it's always been a game that has loved its hallowed stats and records— yet it seems like some fans these days don't even need to watch the game and absorb all there is to absorb about it and the individual human players; they just need their stat sheets and calculators. It's a very dry and one-dimensional way to view the game, and risks missing a lot of pleasurable aspects.

I think that's a bit of a false dichotomy, sure the stats are what people logically use in the context of an argument, but that doesn't mean the same folks aren't watching and enjoying the game as a true fan would.

[MattyC]

I never said that those who view and speak of such stats only truck in those stats and ignore the other aspects of the game and players. Just saying that what I hear in some discussions does lead me to think that there are lots of guys who do lean on that data— either exclusively or at the cost of other aspects. It is just an impression I get, from what is said in some baseball discussions these days.

I can admit I am certainly someone who runs more on feel, instinct, and emotion, based on what I do for a living— and that is also how I approach the game and collecting. Just a shared observation among us fans/collectors. I always learn and glean good stuff from absorbing the very stat-centric baseball points of view I read around the web. I do think it can also be a good thing to temper that baseball worldview with some emotion/intangibles.

[ullmandds]

Do any of y'all think $5K for a topps signed 1 of 1 celebrating aj's recordbreaking moment is a "good" investment?????

[MattyC]

I bought one of those for $500, happily. I think as an investment, who knows; it will depend on the unknown future of Aaron Judge's career. If he stays a beloved Yankee, the Yankee fanbase certainly has its share of well-heeled collectors who may want to have that 1/1 in their collection. Only time will tell on that one, from an investment standpoint.

Given the card and the moment it commemorates, and using my own motivations for buying one as a touchstone, I would hazard that it was bought by a hardcore Judge collector. If it's a collector like me with 10x my bankroll, I can see him spending 5k the way I spent five hundo.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I bought one of those for $500, happily. I think as an investment, who knows; it will depend on the unknown future of Aaron Judge's career. If he stays a beloved Yankee, the Yankee fanbase certainly has its share of well-heeled collectors who may want to have that 1/1 in their collection. Only time will tell on that one, from an investment standpoint.

Given the card and the moment it commemorates, and using my own motivations for buying one as a touchstone, I would hazard that it was bought by a hardcore Judge collector. If it's a collector like me with 10x my bankroll, I can see him spending 5k the way I spent five hundo.

i thought about it but couldnt do it. to me these topps "moments" cards have the potential to be produced in greater #'s than regularly issued cards. Not likely I know...but plausible????

[MattyC]

There were only 100 in total offered of the 50th HR auto card, which I thought was a really smart number— certainly much smaller than demand, even at the offered price points. I have been really pleased with the Topps Now cards as a collector; the image quality is really nice and they display beautifully. I also like how they represent moments I fondly remember so well. They're more like specific mementos than other cards I guess, is the draw for me.

(They were gonna hook me no matter what with that card, lol, it memorializes such a happy moment for me and my family, jumping around, on the phone with relatives all hanging on his at bat.)

[pokerplyr80]

Even in this second half slump Judge was still getting on base at a good percentage, scoring runs, and helping out defensively. I wouldn't say he was a detriment to his team. The way he started and finished this season make him a great choice for MVP in my opinion. Not to mention hitting 50 homeruns as a rookie and shattering the rookie records for walks. A truly historic season that I'm sure someday I will be telling my kids and grand kids about.

[ullmandds]

[QUOTE=MattyC;1704644]There were only 100 in total offered of the 50th HR auto card, which I thought was a really smart number— certainly much smaller than demand, even at the offered price points. I have been really pleased with the Topps Now cards as a collector; the image quality is really nice and they display beautifully. I also like how they represent moments I fondly remember so well. They're more like specific mementos than other cards I guess, is the draw for me.

(They were gonna hook me no matter what with that card, lol, it memorializes such a happy moment for me and my family, jumping around, on the phone with relatives all hanging on his at bat.)[/QUOTE
I hear ya...it happened while I was at work...here in MN...and I'm the only yankees fan in town. I was running around the office yelling to everyone what just happened...no one could care less!!!!

Cherish those moments...and that cool card!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by rats60

It is not sample size when the two months after the end of the first half you hit .182/.346/.365. Judge has had a hot 2 weeks after a bad 2 months. Those 2 weeks are not important considering the Yankees already had the wild card wrapped up. It would be one thing if he led them to the division. However, his hot streak has come too late for it to matter.

The wild card was far from wrapped up. Plus getting home field means something as well. Andrew McCutchen was horrid to start the year for months i believe...that doesnt matter now for him this season even though they long shot for playoffs... .182 is still better than .090.... you cant hit .270 all year and be a 50 homer hitter in most cases... sometimes you face a bunch of aces in a row or hot teams combined with a few bad weeks....

you also forget that weeks in baseball do make up for months...if Judge hit 20 homers in those 2 weeks....you think we would be having this conversation if he had 60 plus homeruns? nobody would care about the 'slump; hitting 50 plus homers with 5 or so games to go accomplishes the same thing, he didnt play a full season and he will have 110-115 rbis as well.. if he did not' slow down temporarily he probably has arguably the best hitting season of all time...

[frankbmd]

I believe Judge would be the first MVP, or ROY for that matter, with 200+ strikeouts, and possibly could finish the year with more Ks than Nellie Fox had in his entire 19 year major league career (216).

Granted Nellie didn't hit the long ball, but Joe DiMaggio almost had one home run (361) for every time he struck out (369). Judge currently has over 4 strikeouts (245) for each home run (54).

Three more dissimilar good ballplayers would be hard to name.

[MrSeven]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I believe Judge would be the first MVP, or ROY for that matter, with 200+ strikeouts, and possibly could finish the year with more Ks than Nellie Fox had in his entire 19 year major league career (216).

Granted Nellie didn't hit the long ball, but Joe DiMaggio almost had one home run (361) for every time he struck out (369). Judge currently has over 4 strikeouts (245) for each home run (54).

Three more dissimilar good ballplayers would be hard to name.

Strikeouts are far more common today then when Joltin' Joe played.

Bob Feller's 8.1 strikeouts per 9 innings ratio was remarkable in 1946 (only the 4th time it had happened in the NL since formation).

From 2000 to 2015, it has happened 290 times.

https://www.theringer.com/2016/6/17/...g-63da5eb7b35d

For a more modern comparison, Jim Thome comes to mind. 2548 career strike outs to 612 home runs.

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Three more dissimilar good ballplayers would be hard to name.

One that comes to mind is Mike Trout. Not to say that Trout is a bad player because he is not but the similarities to his 2014 season a Judge's 2017 season are crazy. And Trout also has a greater than 4 to 1 SO to HR ratio for his career so far.

[packs]

People keep bringing up the slump but in the month of September Judge has hit 13 homers and cemented a playoff spot for his team. The Yankees did not have anything guaranteed at the start of the month and now they've clinched. If Jose Ramirez's play in the final month of the season is something that makes him a contender, why would the same not be said about Judge? I realize the Indians record is tied into Ramirez's performance, but they were in either way being 8 games up on the Twins on September 1.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by packs

People keep bringing up the slump but in the month of September Judge has hit 13 homers and cemented a playoff spot for his team. The Yankees did not have anything guaranteed at the start of the month and now they've clinched. If Jose Ramirez's play in the final month of the season is something that makes him a contender, why would the same not be said about Judge? I realize the Indians record is tied into Ramirez's performance, but they were in either way being 8 games up on the Twins on September 1.

If Judge didnt slump and hit consistently for the entire year and thus no super hot weeks and ended up with the same statistics, isnt it the same thing? Stats are stats. Its a slump if it causes you not to get your statistics. If you get your stats, theres no slumps. Add to the fact he plays in New York and they made the playoffs as cherry on top.

Now a guy like Thames on the brewers...he had a 2nd slump...thats a real slump..

[rats60]

Originally Posted by packs

People keep bringing up the slump but in the month of September Judge has hit 13 homers and cemented a playoff spot for his team. The Yankees did not have anything guaranteed at the start of the month and now they've clinched. If Jose Ramirez's play in the final month of the season is something that makes him a contender, why would the same not be said about Judge? I realize the Indians record is tied into Ramirez's performance, but they were in either way being 8 games up on the Twins on September 1.

Again, Judge was still horrible the first 9 days of September. He has been hot 2 weeks, not the whole month. When Judge started hitting, the wild card was pretty much wrapped up. It would have taken an epic collapse for the Yankees to miss the playoffs. If the Yankees had gone 0-14 instead of 10-4, they would still be tied for the 2nd wild card spot. 7-7 and they still have a playoff birth clinched and are ahead of the Twins.

Ramirez hot streak started in August when the race was close and now they have the league's best record. That is huge. The Indians streak was historic. Ramirez performance during that streak was insane. 29-2 can't be ignored. Until the season is over, nothing is written in stone, but at this point Ramirez has been the league's most valuable player in my opinion.

[packs]

The Indians were in first place on August 1 too. The streak is important to you because you like the Indians. Judge's September is important to me because I like the Yankees. It's a little frustrating to be called a homer by you but you don't see yourself as a homer as well. Saying the Yankees could have gone 0-14 and still made the playoffs doesn't really make a lot of sense to me because you can't look at the standings today and act like the Yankees didn't have to win games this month because of how things eventually turned out.

[MattyC]

While it's certainly flattering to Judge to even be in the MVP discussion as a rookie, this is sort of shifting into an MVP-debate thread.

No one knows how the voters will cast their subjective votes, so it's a lot of Sturm und Drang over something that only time will tell. Snapshots can be taken and cited, numbers parsed, yet only the men who vote know what they weigh most.

For anyone interested I found this article a good morning coffee read; reminded me that life and baseball are all about how we respond when the chips are down:

http://nypost.com/2017/09/26/how-the...-hes-for-real/

Some important reg season baseball still to be played and watched!

[rats60]

Originally Posted by packs

The Indians were in first place on August 1 too. The streak is important to you because you like the Indians. Judge's September is important to me because I like the Yankees. It's a little frustrating to be called a homer by you but you don't see yourself as a homer as well. Saying the Yankees could have gone 0-14 and still made the playoffs doesn't really make a lot of sense to me because you can't look at the standings today and act like the Yankees didn't have to win games this month because of how things eventually turned out.

I am Pirates fan and went to Game 1 of the World Series last year and rooted for the Cubs. I don't see how you think that I am a homer for the Indians. I don't see how you can deny a 22 game win streak, 29-2 record and huge numbers from Ramirez during that streak. Up until the last week, I have had Altuve as MVP. If Judge has another good week and the Yankees win the division, I may change again.

[packs]

I don't deny the streak, I deny its significance re: MVP voting. The Indians have been in first place for months. If this was the 1914 Braves and they went on that tear, sure I can see that making a guy an MVP. But it was a first place team.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think the vote will be Altuve, Judge and Ramirez.

[MattyC]

This thread needs more cards In the tradition of, "take your daughter to work day," I swung by the bank and took some cards to the office. Soon we will all be watching the game together.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think the vote will be Altuve, Judge and Ramirez.

+1, or Alteuve, Ramirez and Judge. Truly remarkable season for Judge--with his first half reminding me of Mantle in 1961 (check their first half stats on baseballreference.com)--and a really classy young man, but he all but vanished for a lengthy and potentially critical time.

Best wishes,

Larry

[MattyC]

In my morning procrastinations and sports reading/viewing, I found this graphic really interesting. Did not know this:

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by MattyC

In my morning procrastinations and sports reading/viewing, I found this graphic really interesting. Did not know this:

Man yankees are really loaded with sluggers...people forget Greg Bird before he was injured....he now has 3 homers in 3 straight days...

Judge has 51 homers.. almost getting to a point of 1 homer per every 3 games... Plus hitting over .280....he not dave kingman...hes got 21 homers since the all star break in about 234 at bats....you expecting to have 30 homers to avoid any stigma?.

no way 10 years from now anyone is going to say he had a bad month or 2 etc...they will just see the 51+ homers and a solid 1h and 2h of the year.

Mcgwire hit .212 in 99 ab bats in 1987 with 3 home runs in the month of August..anyone ever care about that...he hit 49 home runs......in july august and september he hit a total of 21 home runs...

[packs]

I don't know if Judge is the MVP, but I don't think the slump takes anything away from his season either. I mean, if he played well during the slump and ended the season with the same numbers, is he the MVP? He's still managed to hit 51 homers and nearly lead the league is most offensive categories.

[ullmandds]

aaaaaaand...judge's BA is creeping back up towards .300. To me...he could easily be mvp.

[MattyC]

I actually hadn't looked at his complete stat line in some days. Wow. Let alone for a rookie.

[1952boyntoncollector]

another home run...and kept yankees with 2 games left a chance still to win the division..... I mean stanton's the MVP of national league if the marlins made the playoffs.......if Judge gets to 54 homers? plus its not like he is hitting .260...

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

another home run...and kept yankees with 2 games left a chance still to win the division..... I mean stanton's the MVP of national league if the marlins made the playoffs.......if Judge gets to 54 homers? plus its not like he is hitting .260...

no the red sox cinched the division today.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

no the red sox cinched the division today.

right they clinched with 1 game left..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

no the red sox cinched the division today.

I fear they will repeat last year and go quietly in the first series.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I fear they will repeat last year and go quietly in the first series.

If you are referring to the Red Sox I sure hope so!🤑

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I fear they will repeat last year and go quietly in the first series.

Interesting, Pete. I fear they won't repeat and will not go quietly in the first round--go VERLANDER!

Highest regards,

Larry

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

aaaaaaand...judge's BA is creeping back up towards .300. To me...he could easily be mvp.

He might well be, Pete. Was just my personal opinion, based on the anguish of watching every Yankee game that was telecast in my area while he was as helpless as a newborn babe, that sparked my comment. In addition, I don't think there is any question that but for his invisible streak, the Yanks could have beaten Boston out for the division lead and avoided the huge one and out risk they now face--any team can win a single game against any other team.

Best wishes,

Larry

[pokerplyr80]

The Yankees did a lot better than most people expected before the season started. Judge was instrumental to their success. I doubt anyone on the team feels he cost them the division title as they realize they wouldn't even have been in the race without him.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

I don't think there is any question that but for his invisible streak, the Yanks could have beaten Boston out for the division lead and avoided the huge one and out risk they now face--any team can win a single game against any other team.

Best wishes,

Larry

I agree it is going to be one nerve-wracking game. Yet as a Yankee fan, I hold the likes of Betances and Chapman much more responsible than Judge; those two conspired to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory a few times this year. And one is paid an enormous sum, supposed to be a premiere closer; the other was an All-Star with similarly high expectations. Both of them also have rather bad, pouty attitudes. In contrast Judge was an overachieving rookie, from whom I hoped in spring to see .250 with maybe 30HR.

* Sonny Gray/Sanchez/Holder/Girardi also teamed up the other day to really wet the bed, in what turned out to be a very important game. That one stung to watch!

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

The Yankees did a lot better than most people expected before the season started. Judge was instrumental to their success. I doubt anyone on the team feels he cost them the division title as they realize they wouldn't even have been in the race without him.

I agree. Heck, Judge was either rookie and/or player of the month in April, May, June, and September. You can't be switched on all of the time. Posted a graphic earlier in this thread that shows even MVP-caliber seasons include slumps.

No one on that team is holding Judge responsible for them having to play in a wild card game. By all accounts he's loved by his teammates.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Any time a team falls short there is plenty of blame to go around. I like the Yankees at home with Severino.

[irv]

I hope NY wins the WC game but I hope the Indians go all the way.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by irv

I hope NY wins the WC game but I hope the Indians go all the way.

Dodgers will take it.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Any time a team falls short there is plenty of blame to go around.

Well said, Pete.

[felada]

The bullpen blew over 20 games. The Yankees not winning the division has very little to do with judge slumping after the break

Originally Posted by ls7plus

He might well be, Pete. Was just my personal opinion, based on the anguish of watching every Yankee game that was telecast in my area while he was as helpless as a newborn babe, that sparked my comment. In addition, I don't think there is any question that but for his invisible streak, the Yanks could have beaten Boston out for the division lead and avoided the huge one and out risk they now face--any team can win a single game against any other team.

Best wishes,

Larry

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Dodgers will take it.

Nice

[yankeesjetsfan]

Originally Posted by felada

The bullpen blew over 20 games. The Yankees not winning the division has very little to do with judge slumping after the break

I would also like to see how many games Sanchez lost for us by letting balls get by him. I can think of at least 2 games they lost because of a passed ball.

Mike

[D. Bergin]

Saw Judge in an interview during Monday Night Football last night at halftime.

He was wearing a thumbs down shirt.

I haven't seen it mentioned on Net54, but isn't the Mets fan who inspired that for the Yankees, also a regular poster here on Net54?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Saw Judge in an interview during Monday Night Football last night at halftime.

He was wearing a thumbs down shirt.

I haven't seen it mentioned on Net54, but isn't the Mets fan who inspired that for the Yankees, also a regular poster here on Net54?

Gary Dunaier

[yankeesjetsfan]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

Gary Dunaier

That's great. Thank you Gary for that.

Mike

[1952boyntoncollector]

so Judge took care of business on the 'didnt win the division' argument....homering in the wildcard among other things in that game to get them to next round

what more can you ask from this guy with his 50+ homers etc......stop the haters ..and yet will still hear 'but he slumped'!!!'