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  #1  
Old 08-02-2014, 03:33 PM
keepmeposted keepmeposted is offline
Dan Mabey
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Talking 1962 Post Canadian Baseball Card Production

Colleagues -- I am now finishing my sixth revision to the 80 page monograph on the 1962P Canadian set and promotion, entitled NORTHERN EXPOSURE. I have updated the book to include expanded narrative and photos of advertising items, detailed descriptions and reproductions of all triple and double prints (keyed to cereal variety and size), and several Sugar Crisp 6-card uncut panels. WHERE I NEED HELP -- Does anybody, particularly advanced collectors in Canada, have information on where the Canadian copy art and text were prepared? After over 30 years of intensive investigation, I've got zip. I am attempting to understand the entire process of planning, production, and execution of the set. Unlike the 1962P U.S. set, I have never located "insiders" at General Foods or Post involved in the promotion. Any person who can furnish verifiable data on the preparation of copy art, text, rotogravure printing, lamination, box assembly, and distribution of this incredible bilingual set will receive a FREE copy of the updated NORTHERN EXPOSURE. [NOTE: Informed speculation is welcome, but we may have to negotiate consideration (smile).] Thanks, and KEEPMEPOSTED!
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2014, 05:38 PM
sflayank sflayank is offline
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Default 62 post can

how tough is lary #22 A NORTHPORT ALABAMA
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2014, 07:02 PM
keepmeposted keepmeposted is offline
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Default 1962P Canadian #22 Frank Lary Toughness

Frank Lary appeared on 2 Post Canadian cereal varieties. He was teamed with 117 Blasingame, #137 Bailey, and #77 Wagner on Grape Nuts. Lary also can be found with #32 Dick Williams, #78 Pearson, #111 L. Sherry, and #167 Simmons courtesy of Bran Flakes 8 oz. My experience is that he is tough to find in EX+ condition, ranking number 45 (out of 200) in the most challenging to acquire category. You will see the heavy white cardboard stock (Grape Nuts) version far more frequently than the Bran Flakes 8 oz. version. My experience of over 30 years focusing on the set indicates that a large number of set collectors have Williams, Pearson, Sherry, and Simmons on their Want List. I rank their relative difficulty, as single prints, to be 13-16 out of 200.

As you may be aware, panels and cards appearing on the smaller size of cereal varieties (such as 8 oz. Bran Flakes) tend to be much more difficult to locate, because moms in the States and Canada gravitated toward the larger, family size boxes (like 14 oz. Bran Flakes).

So, the bottom line is that Lary, although a double print, is pretty hard to find in high grade -- when you do stumble across it.
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2014, 07:15 PM
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Default Addendum on #22 Frank Lary `a

I apologize for picking up on the specific variation you inquired about. The `a version, referring to his Residence, is the Grape Nuts card. This is the more "common" version than the Bran Flakes 8 ounce specimen. The ranking of 45 is still applicable. [NOTE: If you have the Bran Flakes 8 ounce version, you have a card ranking in the Top 20 of toughness.]
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2014, 10:34 PM
LuckyLuke LuckyLuke is offline
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Default 1962 Post Canadian Newbie

Dan...I truly appreciate the time and patience that you have afforded all those who share in the same passion for the hobby, and in particular , this beautiful set of cards. I have had the good fortune of being able to have dialogue with you concerning this set and your knowledge on these US and Canadian sets is absolutely astounding!!!

I wanted to know more about the rarity of full panel uncut sheets, and in particular, how were these cards originally distributed in the boxes? Quantity per box?

As for individual cards...I know of 3 variations of the Mickey Mantle #5 card...A...B...C variations. Can you speak to the scarcity of the 3 variations?

Finally, is grading these cards more a personal preference or instead necessary, to keep valuations high on rare examples.

Thanks again for your time and passion...and please let me know how I can get my hands on your book..NORTHERN EXPOSURE..
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  #6  
Old 08-02-2014, 11:06 PM
Bestdj777 Bestdj777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLuke View Post
As for individual cards...I know of 3 variations of the Mickey Mantle #5 card...A...B...C variations. Can you speak to the scarcity of the 3 variations?
I am very curious to hear your thoughts on the scarcity of the Mantle variations as well. I have four different (one of the 153 hits is perforated on the bottom and one is not). The 163 "4th time" was by far the hardest and most expensive for me to acquire. Fortunately, it is also the nicest of the ones I have.







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Last edited by Bestdj777; 08-04-2014 at 10:00 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-03-2014, 02:09 PM
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Default 1962P Canadian Distribution & Scarcity

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the kind remarks and inquiries. With regard to cereal variety and the number of cards assigned to each panel, I am simply going to paste a table from the table appearing in NORTHERN EXPOSURE. Hopefully, the MSWord table electrons are compatible with the architecture of this wonderful forum. Here goes ...

TABLE A
CEREAL PACKAGE POPULARITY AND CARD ALLOCATION

KEY TO ABBREVIATIONS
POP = Popularity; SIZE = Ounces; CPB = Cards Per Box Panel;
NBR DIFF = Total Cards Per Variety; SPs = Single Prints;
MPs = Multiple Prints

POP CEREAL VARIETY SIZE CPB NBR DIFF SPs MPs
1 Sugar Crisp - 6 48 38 10
2 Alpha-Bits 10 7 42 36 6
3 Alpha-Bits 7 5 15 12 3
4 Bran Flakes 14 7 28 24 4
5 Grape-Nuts Flakes 12 7 28 24 4
6 Oat Flakes 9 5 15 12 3
7 Grape-Nuts - 4 16 12 4
8 Bran Flakes 8 5 15 12 3
9 Grape-Nuts Flakes 7 5 15 12 3

Okay, the data is all there -- although the formatting is a little skewed. However, now you can see the card allocation construct used in the promotion.

In addressing the issue of the relative scarcity of the 3 Mantle cards, I am going to take the lazy way out and, once again, just paste a paragraph out of the book. Hitting you with the "bottom line" first, the easiest Mantle is the familiar cut-along-blue-lines gray cardboard Bran Flakes 14 oz. Next is the perforated Sugar Crisp insert panel, remembering the consumer couldn't actually see which panel he got until opening the box. The toughest is the heavy white cardboard Grape Nuts version, based on the overall undesirability (to kids) of the nuggets. Here are my explanatory notes from the book:

Although individual hobbyists may argue about the precise order of cereal popularity, most serious Post collectors would agree that the 48 single print cards printed on the back of Oat Flakes, Grape-Nuts, Bran Flakes (8 oz.), and Grape-Nuts Flakes (7 oz.) are the most challenging to acquire. However, even within each of the cited four cereal varieties and sizes, the degree of scarcity seems to accompany the caliber of the multiple print star and his availability on more popular variety and size cereals. Using the Roger Maris scenario discussed in Section 4, the Grape-Nuts version of his card was undoubtedly purchased the least of the three opportunities. This trend likely accounts for the extreme difficulty in locating panel mates Ed Bouchee, Smoky Burgess, and Carl Warwick. Mickey Mantle also provides a parallel example of this phenomena, wherein the Grape-Nuts version of his card was frequently left gathering dust on grocer’s shelves. Bran Flakes (14 oz) commanded high consumer popularity, and even the hidden perforated panel slipped into Sugar Crisp would not deter young kids from prodding their mothers to acquire the brown sugar coated puffs. This trend likely accounts for the relative scarcity of “The Mick’s” Grape-Nuts panel cohorts, Lenny Green, Don Schwall, and Luis Aparicio. Each of these cards are tough to locate, let alone in excellent or better condition.

Finally, my thoughts about professionally grading uncut panels and cards... I am VERY old school, having been a baseball card enthusiast for over 50 years. As a complete set collector (1951-1969, Bowman, Topps, Post, JELL-O, food issues, etc.) and archivist (advertisements, in-store promotions, original copy art, wrappers, original card artist/graphic renderings), I have no interest in slabbed cards or sheets. HOWEVER, my perspective is that if having professionally graded cards and uncut sheets enhances your hobby enjoyment, go for it! In my case, the only 2 slabbed cards I have ever purchased were the 1963 Fleer checklist and 1952T J. Robinson -- purchased on eBay to complete sets. Within hours of receipt, I busted them out of their plastic coffins, and gave them room to breathe with the rest of their buddies in museum quality 9 and 8 pocket sheets. I have seen some professionally graded Post and JELL-O cards that defy understanding, including some (of which I kept images) that couldn't differentiate between 1963 Post and 1963 JELL-O cards. So, if you wish to expend the money to have your Post cereal cards and panels graded and slabbed, I wish you well and enjoyment.

I hope I've answered your questions. If you are interested in acquiring the updated opus on the 1962P Canadian baseball card set, please send a note to me at my e-mail address. As Paul and many others know, I have the book printed at Staples on an "as ordered" basis. My days of underwriting the expense for a moderate-sized run of bound monographs are far past me, so the per unit cost ($40) plus USPS priority shipping ($5) is expensive. Folks need to remember that the books are labors of love completely researched, written, and developed (with color photos) at home. They are written by a collector for collectors, who have a passionate desire to comprehensively delve into the Post cereal promotions.

I hope this helps for those inquiring about the nuances and idiosyncrasies of this incredible set!
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  #8  
Old 08-03-2014, 02:52 PM
LuckyLuke LuckyLuke is offline
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Hello Dan..as always thank you for sharing all your knowledge. Opens the window to the past for those who were too young to collect these pieces of history as they came to market.

Can you speak to the scarcity of seeing full panels(6 player) examples, have collectors been acquiring singles rather than full panels? Did all cards come in panels of 6...3....? I apologize if you have answered this question already.

Finally, I know you are a passionate collector and the value in your collection can only be measured by the shear enjoyment that it brings you, but can you speak to the market valuations on these Canadian issues as compared to the US issues? Have the price guides properly accounted for scarcity...condition...etc.

Lat question for you Dan...have you seen many full 6 player panels...in tact? Specifically...I have a 6 player panel which has Mantle, Friend, Wynn, Skinner, Smith, Kluszewski... Can you let me know where this came from? Are these rare...in great condition...?

Thanks again for all your time and knowledge....Paul.
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  #9  
Old 08-04-2014, 09:40 AM
keepmeposted keepmeposted is offline
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Cool 1962P Canadian Baseball Card Panels

Paul --

The number of cards per panel vary, depending on the variety and size of the cereal box. The boxes of 14 oz. Bran Flakes, 12 oz. Grape Nuts Flakes, and 10oz. Alpha-Bits displayed 7 cards per panel. The boxes of 8 oz. Bran Flakes, 7 oz. Grape Nut Flakes, 7 oz. Alpha-Bits, and 9 oz. Oat Flakes displayed 5 cards per panel. The boxes of Grape Nuts had 4 cards per panel, and the Sugar Crisp perforated insert panels were exclusively in 6 card sheets. [NOTE: In those cases where you see 3 card perforated sheets, they are simply Sugar Crisp panels that were separated by collectors.]

The number of surviving 1962P Canadian baseball card panels visible to the hobby since 1980 is miniscule. I have seen only one (1) complete box panel (which includes the promotion block) in 35 years. If I recall correctly, this is in the possession of Mike Tiry, who sent me a nice color copy of the 14 oz. Bran Flakes panel featuring Johnny Blanchard and Robin Roberts. The perforated Sugar Crisp complete (i.e. intact) panels I have seen offered number about 20. I have 6 of the 8 Sugar Crisp panels in my possession, and full-sized color copies of the remaining 2 -- including the Whitey Ford Los Angeles Dodgers error. My opinion is that a pristine (stone cold mint) condition uncut Sugar Crisp panel would be valued four (4) times greater than the market price for each individual mint perforated card.

This leads to the question: What is the "right" value for individual 1962P Canadian baseball cards? Since my first edition of NORTHERN EXPOSURE in 1996, I have evaded making this determination. I came up with a formula, called the Mabey Price Primer (MPP), that attempted to extrapolate "then-priced" values of U.S. 1962 Post baseball cards and factor true scarcity (cereal box variety/size, single prints, player-to-panel (PTP) pairings, etc.) of the 1962P Canadian baseball cards. What was my conclusion in 1996, and now in 2014? The bilingual NM to EX+ condition English-French cards are VASTLY undervalued. Of course, the ultimate determinant of value is what a person is willing to pay. The evolution of eBay has destroyed my 50 year collector value construct, as I see people paying jaw-dropping amounts for the super tough cards. I honestly cannot comment on the reliability of current price guides, because I haven't bothered to see one in 8 years. When I was very active in the hobby in the late 1970s through early 1990s, I knew many of the respected and high-profile dealers and collectors that Beckett, SCD, and Canadian Sportscard Collector relied upon in publishing values and market trends. With eBay and various high profile auction houses, I couldn't even begin to assess (or justify?) the knowledge, mental stability, or motivation, of buyers. All I know is what I would be willing to pay for a Post or JELL-O card, based on the factual and logically interpreted data accumulated over the past 35 years.

OK -- I'll shut up now. You're probably regretting asking the questions! Have fun collecting and acquiring the cards you love. Remember, it's a hobby -- it's supposed to be a diversion from the stresses of life, not place a greater burden on your shoulders.

KEEPMEPOSTED! Dan.
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2014, 08:33 PM
LuckyLuke LuckyLuke is offline
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Dan...I would like to purchase your book...can you please tell me how to proceed? Thank you.

Also, you mentioned the Whitey Ford error card. Can you tell me how to recognize that error card. In your opinion is this the most rare card of the Canadian set?

As for value...it is quite confusing....But if I use the general consensus out there(Guide)..I see a stat(153 hits) Mantle in very good condition is valued at $250...but this was an out of date publication. Is this anywhere in the ball park? The Whitey Ford error card in contrast would be valued at?

PS...like you stated...keep in mind that price is ultimately determined by what the buyer wants to pay for an item.

Thanks again.
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  #11  
Old 08-05-2014, 07:55 AM
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Dan:

The only possible connection I can find is from a 1971 OPC Bazooka Hockey box, where the printers initials (JHL or HJL) appear on a flap:



I asked Bobby Binder (Vintage Hockey Collector) about what the initials might stand for but he didn't know and I have not had much time to pursue it since. Since it's a box and Canadian, maybe that is an avenue to pursue. I would think the firm was in the Toronto/London area.

My original blog post on it is here: http://toppsarchives.blogspot.com/se...&max-results=7

Last edited by toppcat; 08-05-2014 at 07:56 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-05-2014, 10:59 AM
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Default A oucple of complete canadian boxes

Here are links to a couple of complete Canadian Grape nuts boxes that sold. Perhaps if you could get in touch with the winner(s) - you could get a lead on some of the information you are looking for. I was a bidder, but dropped out feeling they got a little rich for my blood - now if there was a Clemente............

http://feb13.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=53722

http://feb13.hugginsandscott.com/cgi...l?itemid=53721

I also have some type of advertisement somewhere that may have some info - I will try to look for it in the next week or so.
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  #13  
Old 08-05-2014, 12:13 PM
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The Canadian versions of the Post cards are by far the best looking of the sets, at least to my eye, and I pick them up when I can. I just picked up a Maris at the National. How can I tell which version I have?
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2014, 04:36 PM
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Default 1962P Canadian Maris Variations & Grape-Nuts

Gents -- Thank you for the 2 posts pertaining to leads on possible printers. In addition, the color shots of the 2 GN complete boxes are very impressive.

The 3 Maris variations can be differentiated based on the following descriptions. I'm simply cutting and pasting electrons from NORTHERN EXPOSURE, so even if the MSWord text doesn't completely transfer , I hope you will have adequate information to determine which Maris you picked up.

ROGER MARIS – No. 6
3 VARIATIONS

OAT FLAKES – OF
 Border with solid blue lines
 Name in large letters
 Card No. 6 is elevated to left of top picture frame
 English and French letter “j” looks like an “i”
 French text for Home reads “Résidence”
 French text first line reads “Roger fut en tête de L.A.
Pour les circuits (61).”, i.e. “P” in pour capitalized
 Photograph depicts gray-blue uniform
 Cardboard stock heavier weight

GRAPE-NUTS FLAKES 12 OUNCE – GNF12
 Border with solid blue lines
 Name in large letters
 Card No. 6 is elevated to left of top picture frame
 English and French letter “j” has tail
 French text for Home reads “Résidence”
 French text first line reads “Roger fut en tête de L.A.
pour les circuits (61).”, i.e. “p” in pour small case
 Photograph depicts gray uniform
 Cardboard stock heavier weight

GRAPE-NUTS – GN
 Border with solid blue lines
 Name in large letters
 Card No. 6 is even & to left of top picture frame
 English and French letter “j” has tail
 French text for Home reads “à”
 French text first line reads “Roger fut en tête de L.A.
Pour le circuits (61).”, i.e. “P” in pour capitalized
 Photograph enlarged with blue tint
 Cardboard stock white and thick
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  #15  
Old 08-07-2014, 11:57 AM
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Looks like a Grape Nuts Maris:

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  #16  
Old 08-11-2014, 06:41 PM
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Hi Dan: Nice to see you are still active in the hobby. Me too although I regretfully no longer have my 62 Post Canadian set! I don't know the answer to your question but I think I know some folks who might. I'll see what I can do. It may take a bit of time but one old time collector I am seeing in the fall may be able to shed some light. Dave Sale
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  #17  
Old 08-12-2014, 05:43 PM
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Default Post Canadian.....

Hi David! Nice to see you are still out there and kicking.......me too.

Grant
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  #18  
Old 08-12-2014, 06:15 PM
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Default Greetings to Old Friends

Hello, David & Grant.

It is wonderful to make contact with the dedicated legion of POSTulates. As you may know, since moving from Northern Virginia to South Carolina (9 years ago) I have not been actively engaged in the sports collectibles hobby. One driving factor has been a focus on community outreach, faith growth, animal rescue, and a significant amount of travel. The other issue has been a function of living in an area where "sports oriented" conventions and shows focus on guns and knives. The latter is not my passion, so ...

Thanks in large part to Rich Mueller, of Sports Collectors Daily, my modest reappearance in the hobby has been a stimulus to revisit and share the joys of the Post and JELL-O baseball card promotions. Once the on-line interview was published, I received dozens of messages from the US and Canada. Interestingly enough, it wasn't just collectors. I received calls from dealers, museum curators, and even small town historical chronologists. One gentleman from Kentucky is a newspaper and internet commentator that focuses on Americana, circa 1950s-1960s. All in all, it's been great fun.

One gratifying aspect of "landing" on Net54 is that it is comforting to know that the heart of the hobby is still beating. Sure, it's not the same as the first National off of Century Blvd in LA, or the incredible weekend shows in Buena Park, but I sense that the spirit and wonder exuded by true hobbyists is still out there. Every once in awhile, I swear I feel the ghosts of Burdick, Jasperson, Gelman, Riley, et. al. hovering over these posts. [NOTE: By ghosts, I do not necessarily mean all of these fine people have departed this earth.]

Nice to hear from you guys. KEEPMEPOSTED!
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  #19  
Old 08-18-2014, 05:27 PM
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Default 1962 POST CANADIAN & U.S. LIFE MAGAZINE Variations

Gents:

For those who may be running out of challenges to pursue, you might enjoy finding and thumbing through the LIFE Magazine CANADIAN issue featuring Liz and Richard. By a show of hands, how many of you knew, and have in your collection, the Maris/Mantle Canadian insert variations? [See image below to identify that this is a trick question, in part.]

KEEPMEPOSTED
Attached Images
File Type: jpg can LIFE0001.jpg (76.2 KB, 211 views)
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  #20  
Old 09-29-2018, 11:52 PM
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Dan,
I am relatively new to collecting 1962 Canadian Post, but am down to about 15 of the very expensive short prints. I recently heard about your well researched book and my understanding is that you have some of these for sale. Do your books just cover 1962 Canadian Post or do you also have books dealing with the other Jello and Post sets from 1961 to 1963. I think I would be interested in purchasing whatever you have, but it was a little unclear to me what your asking price is. If you could forward any information that you have for me and tell me how to get the money to you I would greatly appreciate it.
Rick Johnson
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  #21  
Old 09-30-2018, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman View Post
Looks like a Grape Nuts Maris:

Yes, Adam, it is. Congrats on finding it at the National (I assume the 2018 event at the I-X Center in Cleveland). I was there looking for some of the key cards in their shorter print variations, but wasn't fortunate enough to find any. I did manage to obtain the Grape Nuts Maris from a fellow board member some months ago, along with the Grape Nuts Mays. They simply don't come along very often, although it seems a significant number of dealers still don't know what they have.

Best of luck in your collecting endeavors,

Larry
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2018, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ls7plus View Post
Yes, Adam, it is. Congrats on finding it at the National (I assume the 2018 event at the I-X Center in Cleveland).
This thread was bumped from 2014.
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2018, 02:20 PM
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If there are box flats around, there may be some printer's info in the waste areas that get hidden by glued flaps in assembly.
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  #24  
Old 09-30-2018, 02:22 PM
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If there are box flats around, there may be some printer's info in the waste areas that get hidden by glued flaps in assembly. It could be a code or a small logo' I know some Bowman sets had union/local information on the packaging, which might also be a way to figure it for US sets, not sure about Canada,
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  #25  
Old 10-01-2018, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricktopps View Post
Dan,
I am relatively new to collecting 1962 Canadian Post, but am down to about 15 of the very expensive short prints. I recently heard about your well researched book and my understanding is that you have some of these for sale. Do your books just cover 1962 Canadian Post or do you also have books dealing with the other Jello and Post sets from 1961 to 1963. I think I would be interested in purchasing whatever you have, but it was a little unclear to me what your asking price is. If you could forward any information that you have for me and tell me how to get the money to you I would greatly appreciate it.
Rick Johnson
What are the 15 very expensive short prints cards?

I have some pics in my Net54 picture link below of some 62 Post cards I own, although I don't think any fall into that category?
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  #26  
Old 10-01-2018, 07:11 PM
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Default Tough Canadian 62 Baseball

Irv,

Based on Dan Mabey's book and my long experience in collecting Post Cereal and Jell-O cards here are what I consider the toughest 62 Canadians:

Joe Amalfitano
Jackie Jensen
Hal Smith
Dick Brown
Sam Jones
Ralph Terry
Chuck Estrada
Larry Sherry
Dick Williams
Curt Simmons

This is in no particular order and is based on what I have seen since the 70's as to the availability of these cards. Some I have never seen. Also the Sandy Koufax with the correct "Walks" in the statistic block is extremely tough. Again, this is just an opinion and is in somewhat agreeing with Dan's books.

Mike
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  #27  
Old 10-02-2018, 07:38 AM
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irv irv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skil55voy View Post
Irv,

Based on Dan Mabey's book and my long experience in collecting Post Cereal and Jell-O cards here are what I consider the toughest 62 Canadians:

Joe Amalfitano
Jackie Jensen
Hal Smith
Dick Brown
Sam Jones
Ralph Terry
Chuck Estrada
Larry Sherry
Dick Williams
Curt Simmons

This is in no particular order and is based on what I have seen since the 70's as to the availability of these cards. Some I have never seen. Also the Sandy Koufax with the correct "Walks" in the statistic block is extremely tough. Again, this is just an opinion and is in somewhat agreeing with Dan's books.

Mike
Thanks Mike.
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  #28  
Old 10-02-2018, 10:32 AM
hoot-owl hoot-owl is offline
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Default a little variation

I am down to needing two cards from this set: Rocky Bridges and Hal Smith. My top ten hardest cards might be slightly different--the last three cards I have obtained were Yogi Berra, Joe Amalfitano and John Romano. I would probably add Tito Francona to my list as well. So--

Rocky Bridges
Hal Smith
Yogi Berra
John Romano
Tito Francona
Dick Williams
Joe Amalfitano
Jackie Jensen
Larry Sherry
Jim Gilliam

Again in no particular order--just highlights the number of really tough cards to track down in this set.
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