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  #1  
Old 08-02-2014, 03:33 PM
keepmeposted keepmeposted is offline
Dan Mabey
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Talking 1962 Post Canadian Baseball Card Production

Colleagues -- I am now finishing my sixth revision to the 80 page monograph on the 1962P Canadian set and promotion, entitled NORTHERN EXPOSURE. I have updated the book to include expanded narrative and photos of advertising items, detailed descriptions and reproductions of all triple and double prints (keyed to cereal variety and size), and several Sugar Crisp 6-card uncut panels. WHERE I NEED HELP -- Does anybody, particularly advanced collectors in Canada, have information on where the Canadian copy art and text were prepared? After over 30 years of intensive investigation, I've got zip. I am attempting to understand the entire process of planning, production, and execution of the set. Unlike the 1962P U.S. set, I have never located "insiders" at General Foods or Post involved in the promotion. Any person who can furnish verifiable data on the preparation of copy art, text, rotogravure printing, lamination, box assembly, and distribution of this incredible bilingual set will receive a FREE copy of the updated NORTHERN EXPOSURE. [NOTE: Informed speculation is welcome, but we may have to negotiate consideration (smile).] Thanks, and KEEPMEPOSTED!
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2014, 05:38 PM
sflayank sflayank is offline
larry s
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Default 62 post can

how tough is lary #22 A NORTHPORT ALABAMA
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  #3  
Old 08-02-2014, 07:02 PM
keepmeposted keepmeposted is offline
Dan Mabey
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Default 1962P Canadian #22 Frank Lary Toughness

Frank Lary appeared on 2 Post Canadian cereal varieties. He was teamed with 117 Blasingame, #137 Bailey, and #77 Wagner on Grape Nuts. Lary also can be found with #32 Dick Williams, #78 Pearson, #111 L. Sherry, and #167 Simmons courtesy of Bran Flakes 8 oz. My experience is that he is tough to find in EX+ condition, ranking number 45 (out of 200) in the most challenging to acquire category. You will see the heavy white cardboard stock (Grape Nuts) version far more frequently than the Bran Flakes 8 oz. version. My experience of over 30 years focusing on the set indicates that a large number of set collectors have Williams, Pearson, Sherry, and Simmons on their Want List. I rank their relative difficulty, as single prints, to be 13-16 out of 200.

As you may be aware, panels and cards appearing on the smaller size of cereal varieties (such as 8 oz. Bran Flakes) tend to be much more difficult to locate, because moms in the States and Canada gravitated toward the larger, family size boxes (like 14 oz. Bran Flakes).

So, the bottom line is that Lary, although a double print, is pretty hard to find in high grade -- when you do stumble across it.
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  #4  
Old 08-02-2014, 07:15 PM
keepmeposted keepmeposted is offline
Dan Mabey
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Default Addendum on #22 Frank Lary `a

I apologize for picking up on the specific variation you inquired about. The `a version, referring to his Residence, is the Grape Nuts card. This is the more "common" version than the Bran Flakes 8 ounce specimen. The ranking of 45 is still applicable. [NOTE: If you have the Bran Flakes 8 ounce version, you have a card ranking in the Top 20 of toughness.]
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  #5  
Old 08-02-2014, 10:34 PM
LuckyLuke LuckyLuke is offline
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Default 1962 Post Canadian Newbie

Dan...I truly appreciate the time and patience that you have afforded all those who share in the same passion for the hobby, and in particular , this beautiful set of cards. I have had the good fortune of being able to have dialogue with you concerning this set and your knowledge on these US and Canadian sets is absolutely astounding!!!

I wanted to know more about the rarity of full panel uncut sheets, and in particular, how were these cards originally distributed in the boxes? Quantity per box?

As for individual cards...I know of 3 variations of the Mickey Mantle #5 card...A...B...C variations. Can you speak to the scarcity of the 3 variations?

Finally, is grading these cards more a personal preference or instead necessary, to keep valuations high on rare examples.

Thanks again for your time and passion...and please let me know how I can get my hands on your book..NORTHERN EXPOSURE..
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  #6  
Old 08-02-2014, 11:06 PM
Bestdj777 Bestdj777 is offline
Chris
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLuke View Post
As for individual cards...I know of 3 variations of the Mickey Mantle #5 card...A...B...C variations. Can you speak to the scarcity of the 3 variations?
I am very curious to hear your thoughts on the scarcity of the Mantle variations as well. I have four different (one of the 153 hits is perforated on the bottom and one is not). The 163 "4th time" was by far the hardest and most expensive for me to acquire. Fortunately, it is also the nicest of the ones I have.







__________________
Mantle Master Set: 425/425 (complete!!!)

Last edited by Bestdj777; 08-04-2014 at 10:00 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-03-2014, 02:09 PM
keepmeposted keepmeposted is offline
Dan Mabey
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Default 1962P Canadian Distribution & Scarcity

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the kind remarks and inquiries. With regard to cereal variety and the number of cards assigned to each panel, I am simply going to paste a table from the table appearing in NORTHERN EXPOSURE. Hopefully, the MSWord table electrons are compatible with the architecture of this wonderful forum. Here goes ...

TABLE A
CEREAL PACKAGE POPULARITY AND CARD ALLOCATION

KEY TO ABBREVIATIONS
POP = Popularity; SIZE = Ounces; CPB = Cards Per Box Panel;
NBR DIFF = Total Cards Per Variety; SPs = Single Prints;
MPs = Multiple Prints

POP CEREAL VARIETY SIZE CPB NBR DIFF SPs MPs
1 Sugar Crisp - 6 48 38 10
2 Alpha-Bits 10 7 42 36 6
3 Alpha-Bits 7 5 15 12 3
4 Bran Flakes 14 7 28 24 4
5 Grape-Nuts Flakes 12 7 28 24 4
6 Oat Flakes 9 5 15 12 3
7 Grape-Nuts - 4 16 12 4
8 Bran Flakes 8 5 15 12 3
9 Grape-Nuts Flakes 7 5 15 12 3

Okay, the data is all there -- although the formatting is a little skewed. However, now you can see the card allocation construct used in the promotion.

In addressing the issue of the relative scarcity of the 3 Mantle cards, I am going to take the lazy way out and, once again, just paste a paragraph out of the book. Hitting you with the "bottom line" first, the easiest Mantle is the familiar cut-along-blue-lines gray cardboard Bran Flakes 14 oz. Next is the perforated Sugar Crisp insert panel, remembering the consumer couldn't actually see which panel he got until opening the box. The toughest is the heavy white cardboard Grape Nuts version, based on the overall undesirability (to kids) of the nuggets. Here are my explanatory notes from the book:

Although individual hobbyists may argue about the precise order of cereal popularity, most serious Post collectors would agree that the 48 single print cards printed on the back of Oat Flakes, Grape-Nuts, Bran Flakes (8 oz.), and Grape-Nuts Flakes (7 oz.) are the most challenging to acquire. However, even within each of the cited four cereal varieties and sizes, the degree of scarcity seems to accompany the caliber of the multiple print star and his availability on more popular variety and size cereals. Using the Roger Maris scenario discussed in Section 4, the Grape-Nuts version of his card was undoubtedly purchased the least of the three opportunities. This trend likely accounts for the extreme difficulty in locating panel mates Ed Bouchee, Smoky Burgess, and Carl Warwick. Mickey Mantle also provides a parallel example of this phenomena, wherein the Grape-Nuts version of his card was frequently left gathering dust on grocer’s shelves. Bran Flakes (14 oz) commanded high consumer popularity, and even the hidden perforated panel slipped into Sugar Crisp would not deter young kids from prodding their mothers to acquire the brown sugar coated puffs. This trend likely accounts for the relative scarcity of “The Mick’s” Grape-Nuts panel cohorts, Lenny Green, Don Schwall, and Luis Aparicio. Each of these cards are tough to locate, let alone in excellent or better condition.

Finally, my thoughts about professionally grading uncut panels and cards... I am VERY old school, having been a baseball card enthusiast for over 50 years. As a complete set collector (1951-1969, Bowman, Topps, Post, JELL-O, food issues, etc.) and archivist (advertisements, in-store promotions, original copy art, wrappers, original card artist/graphic renderings), I have no interest in slabbed cards or sheets. HOWEVER, my perspective is that if having professionally graded cards and uncut sheets enhances your hobby enjoyment, go for it! In my case, the only 2 slabbed cards I have ever purchased were the 1963 Fleer checklist and 1952T J. Robinson -- purchased on eBay to complete sets. Within hours of receipt, I busted them out of their plastic coffins, and gave them room to breathe with the rest of their buddies in museum quality 9 and 8 pocket sheets. I have seen some professionally graded Post and JELL-O cards that defy understanding, including some (of which I kept images) that couldn't differentiate between 1963 Post and 1963 JELL-O cards. So, if you wish to expend the money to have your Post cereal cards and panels graded and slabbed, I wish you well and enjoyment.

I hope I've answered your questions. If you are interested in acquiring the updated opus on the 1962P Canadian baseball card set, please send a note to me at my e-mail address. As Paul and many others know, I have the book printed at Staples on an "as ordered" basis. My days of underwriting the expense for a moderate-sized run of bound monographs are far past me, so the per unit cost ($40) plus USPS priority shipping ($5) is expensive. Folks need to remember that the books are labors of love completely researched, written, and developed (with color photos) at home. They are written by a collector for collectors, who have a passionate desire to comprehensively delve into the Post cereal promotions.

I hope this helps for those inquiring about the nuances and idiosyncrasies of this incredible set!
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  #8  
Old 08-03-2014, 02:52 PM
LuckyLuke LuckyLuke is offline
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Hello Dan..as always thank you for sharing all your knowledge. Opens the window to the past for those who were too young to collect these pieces of history as they came to market.

Can you speak to the scarcity of seeing full panels(6 player) examples, have collectors been acquiring singles rather than full panels? Did all cards come in panels of 6...3....? I apologize if you have answered this question already.

Finally, I know you are a passionate collector and the value in your collection can only be measured by the shear enjoyment that it brings you, but can you speak to the market valuations on these Canadian issues as compared to the US issues? Have the price guides properly accounted for scarcity...condition...etc.

Lat question for you Dan...have you seen many full 6 player panels...in tact? Specifically...I have a 6 player panel which has Mantle, Friend, Wynn, Skinner, Smith, Kluszewski... Can you let me know where this came from? Are these rare...in great condition...?

Thanks again for all your time and knowledge....Paul.
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  #9  
Old 08-04-2014, 09:40 AM
keepmeposted keepmeposted is offline
Dan Mabey
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Cool 1962P Canadian Baseball Card Panels

Paul --

The number of cards per panel vary, depending on the variety and size of the cereal box. The boxes of 14 oz. Bran Flakes, 12 oz. Grape Nuts Flakes, and 10oz. Alpha-Bits displayed 7 cards per panel. The boxes of 8 oz. Bran Flakes, 7 oz. Grape Nut Flakes, 7 oz. Alpha-Bits, and 9 oz. Oat Flakes displayed 5 cards per panel. The boxes of Grape Nuts had 4 cards per panel, and the Sugar Crisp perforated insert panels were exclusively in 6 card sheets. [NOTE: In those cases where you see 3 card perforated sheets, they are simply Sugar Crisp panels that were separated by collectors.]

The number of surviving 1962P Canadian baseball card panels visible to the hobby since 1980 is miniscule. I have seen only one (1) complete box panel (which includes the promotion block) in 35 years. If I recall correctly, this is in the possession of Mike Tiry, who sent me a nice color copy of the 14 oz. Bran Flakes panel featuring Johnny Blanchard and Robin Roberts. The perforated Sugar Crisp complete (i.e. intact) panels I have seen offered number about 20. I have 6 of the 8 Sugar Crisp panels in my possession, and full-sized color copies of the remaining 2 -- including the Whitey Ford Los Angeles Dodgers error. My opinion is that a pristine (stone cold mint) condition uncut Sugar Crisp panel would be valued four (4) times greater than the market price for each individual mint perforated card.

This leads to the question: What is the "right" value for individual 1962P Canadian baseball cards? Since my first edition of NORTHERN EXPOSURE in 1996, I have evaded making this determination. I came up with a formula, called the Mabey Price Primer (MPP), that attempted to extrapolate "then-priced" values of U.S. 1962 Post baseball cards and factor true scarcity (cereal box variety/size, single prints, player-to-panel (PTP) pairings, etc.) of the 1962P Canadian baseball cards. What was my conclusion in 1996, and now in 2014? The bilingual NM to EX+ condition English-French cards are VASTLY undervalued. Of course, the ultimate determinant of value is what a person is willing to pay. The evolution of eBay has destroyed my 50 year collector value construct, as I see people paying jaw-dropping amounts for the super tough cards. I honestly cannot comment on the reliability of current price guides, because I haven't bothered to see one in 8 years. When I was very active in the hobby in the late 1970s through early 1990s, I knew many of the respected and high-profile dealers and collectors that Beckett, SCD, and Canadian Sportscard Collector relied upon in publishing values and market trends. With eBay and various high profile auction houses, I couldn't even begin to assess (or justify?) the knowledge, mental stability, or motivation, of buyers. All I know is what I would be willing to pay for a Post or JELL-O card, based on the factual and logically interpreted data accumulated over the past 35 years.

OK -- I'll shut up now. You're probably regretting asking the questions! Have fun collecting and acquiring the cards you love. Remember, it's a hobby -- it's supposed to be a diversion from the stresses of life, not place a greater burden on your shoulders.

KEEPMEPOSTED! Dan.
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2014, 08:33 PM
LuckyLuke LuckyLuke is offline
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Dan...I would like to purchase your book...can you please tell me how to proceed? Thank you.

Also, you mentioned the Whitey Ford error card. Can you tell me how to recognize that error card. In your opinion is this the most rare card of the Canadian set?

As for value...it is quite confusing....But if I use the general consensus out there(Guide)..I see a stat(153 hits) Mantle in very good condition is valued at $250...but this was an out of date publication. Is this anywhere in the ball park? The Whitey Ford error card in contrast would be valued at?

PS...like you stated...keep in mind that price is ultimately determined by what the buyer wants to pay for an item.

Thanks again.
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