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  #21  
Old 07-28-2018, 08:34 PM
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Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
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Originally Posted by rats60 View Post
Sheffield is an admitted steroid user. He used the "clear" and the "cream" with Bonds. Fred McGriff with 493 has the most home runs by a "clean" player not in the HoF.


When did he admit it? I don't recall reading that...though I certainly believe he did.
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Externally - No matter how much we claim to take the higher moral ground, we have neither respected nor attempted to understand other cultures.
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  #22  
Old 07-28-2018, 09:21 PM
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When did he admit it? I don't recall reading that...though I certainly believe he did.
https://www.sfgate.com/sports/articl...ld-2667408.php
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  #23  
Old 07-28-2018, 09:31 PM
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The problem is that Perez, Rice, and Cepeda were pretty bad choices for the hall. (Dawson is a step above those guys.) Perez is in because the hall has always looked kindly on good players who played for great teams. (Earle Combs, Tony Lazzeri, and so on.) Cepeda and Rice were mistakes. But basically these guys are indistinguishable from hordes of other guys, and McGriff is one of the ones who got left out. (Along with Fred Lynn, Luis Gonzalez, Ken Williams, Dale Murphy, Bob Elliot, Torii Hunter, Brian Giles, Norm Cash, Ellis Burkes, Bernie Williams, and on and on.)

As for Ichiro, he won me over on the HOF thing eventually. The more interesting question is whether he's going to get into the Japanese hall of fame. He was extraordinarily good while playing for Orix, but he came to America at 27. Most of his career has been over here. If I had to guess, though, I'd say that he goes in. Ichiro is the proof that the best Japanese players are world class baseball players. I mean, it's hard to doubt that Oh or Nagashima were world class, but Ichiro is the proof that they were. There is also some precedent here. Hideki Matsui is in the Japanese hall of fame, even though he left Japan at 29. I'd guess that Ichiro is the first player to be inducted into both halls of fame.
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  #24  
Old 07-28-2018, 09:52 PM
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Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
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WOW! What a petty guy bonds is! Totally unredeemable IMO.
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"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson


MY BIG CONCERNS ABOUT AMERICA:

Internally- We spend too much time assuring our rights without learning the responsibilities that should accompany them.
Externally - No matter how much we claim to take the higher moral ground, we have neither respected nor attempted to understand other cultures.
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  #25  
Old 07-29-2018, 12:05 AM
steve B steve B is offline
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Originally Posted by nat View Post
The problem is that Perez, Rice, and Cepeda were pretty bad choices for the hall. (Dawson is a step above those guys.) Perez is in because the hall has always looked kindly on good players who played for great teams. (Earle Combs, Tony Lazzeri, and so on.) Cepeda and Rice were mistakes. But basically these guys are indistinguishable from hordes of other guys, and McGriff is one of the ones who got left out. (Along with Fred Lynn, Luis Gonzalez, Ken Williams, Dale Murphy, Bob Elliot, Torii Hunter, Brian Giles, Norm Cash, Ellis Burkes, Bernie Williams, and on and on.)

As for Ichiro, he won me over on the HOF thing eventually. The more interesting question is whether he's going to get into the Japanese hall of fame. He was extraordinarily good while playing for Orix, but he came to America at 27. Most of his career has been over here. If I had to guess, though, I'd say that he goes in. Ichiro is the proof that the best Japanese players are world class baseball players. I mean, it's hard to doubt that Oh or Nagashima were world class, but Ichiro is the proof that they were. There is also some precedent here. Hideki Matsui is in the Japanese hall of fame, even though he left Japan at 29. I'd guess that Ichiro is the first player to be inducted into both halls of fame.
You never saw Rice play did you?
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  #26  
Old 07-30-2018, 09:54 AM
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Kyle May
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I can't believe I'm reading posts that suggest even in the slightest that Ichiro is a borderline HoFer or shouldn't be a HoFer at all.
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  #27  
Old 07-30-2018, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by KMayUSA6060 View Post
I can't believe I'm reading posts that suggest even in the slightest that Ichiro is a borderline HoFer or shouldn't be a HoFer at all.
+1
All-Star and Gold Glove RFer for 10 straight years, an MVP, led the league in hits 7 years. Had speed, cannon arm, great teammate, never heard any bad news about him. Whats not to like?
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  #28  
Old 07-30-2018, 01:34 PM
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Rice comes up often as the weakest HOFer. I saw him play his entire career. Is he George Brett? Nope. But there are DOZENS of guys in the HOF worse than Rice. I have no issue with a bigger HOF where Murphy, Parker, Foster, Harvey, Hernandez, and Mattingly are right there alongside him. And each of those guys is better than many of the guys in now.
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  #29  
Old 07-30-2018, 03:08 PM
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Ichiro had three problems (1) he was a corner outfielder who didn't have any power, (2) he never drew a walk so his on-base percentage was not as good as you would expect given his batting average and, by far most importantly, (3) he spent most of his peak years in Japan. Most players produce most of their value in their 20s, and Ichiro spent most of his 20s overseas. If you combine his production in Japan and USA he's easily qualified, but historically the only non-MLB play that the American hall recognizes is the negro leagues. (Otherwise guys like Buzz Arlett would be in the hall.) Like I said above, however, I think that even his just-USA performance is worthy of enshrinement, and I suspect that he'll get some extra credit in Japan and get inducted there too.
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  #30  
Old 07-30-2018, 03:49 PM
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Raymond 'Robbie' Culpepper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowderedH2O View Post
Rice comes up often as the weakest HOFer. I saw him play his entire career. Is he George Brett? Nope. But there are DOZENS of guys in the HOF worse than Rice. I have no issue with a bigger HOF where Murphy, Parker, Foster, Harvey, Hernandez, and Mattingly are right there alongside him. And each of those guys is better than many of the guys in now.

WHICH Harvey?

DOUG Harvey's already in.

MATT Harvey won't ever get in.

Harvey DENT...now, HE might get enough support!



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"A life is not important except in the impact it has on others lives" - Jackie Robinson


MY BIG CONCERNS ABOUT AMERICA:

Internally- We spend too much time assuring our rights without learning the responsibilities that should accompany them.
Externally - No matter how much we claim to take the higher moral ground, we have neither respected nor attempted to understand other cultures.
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