Ross Barnes for the Hall of Fame

[GaryPassamonte]

Now that Barnes' teammate Deacon White has gotten into the HOF, don't you think Barnes election is overdue? I have many points on his case, but I would like to see how others feel about his credentials and about his prospects.

[barrysloate]

There are of course many 19th century players worthy of induction, and Barnes is unquestionably among them. His statistics are better than many players who are already in.

[GaryPassamonte]

Barry- The problem is that Barnes is technically not eligible for HOF consideration. He only played 9 recognized Major League seasons, with 10 seasons being the minimum required to be considered as a player. This requirement excludes others such as Jim Creighton and Cal Mc Vey, and there are many others. The HOF makes no allowance for players who started their careers before 1871 and the formation of the National Association. The only 19th century player in the HOF, elected solely on the basis of his playing career, that played less than 10 Major League seasons is Candy Cummings and this election occurred in 1939. The pioneer category for players has been abandoned. We see a parade of executives, managers, and even umpires being inducted, yet players with less than 10 Major League seasons are not considered. Take Barnes for example. He played 5 years with the Rockford Forest Cities, from 1866-1870. This service is not considered, but if he had one at bat in one more Major League season, he would be eligible for consideration. This is absolutely ludricrous and punishes many 19th century players for having been born too early. The HOF needs to rethink the rules as they apply to the true pioneers of baseball and use the pioneer category for what it was intended to do, which is elect players. Did I say that Barnes is the only player to bat over .400 in 4 different seasons?

[barrysloate]

Barnes did play only nine seasons between 1871-1881, but he also played many years with the Forest Citys of Rockford. Seems like if they wanted to include him they coud give him some credit for 1866-1870.

But I didn't realize he only played nine pro seasons.

Edited to add you said pretty much the same thing.

[howard38]

I /

[GaryPassamonte]

The fair-foul argument is not valid. Every player at the time had the opportunity to use the fair-foul hit to their advantage. The fact that Barnes was the best at it should not be a criticism of his ability, but an acknowledgment of his talent. We can only measure a player's accomplishments by comparing them to the others players of the day using the rules of the day. We don't diminish the abilities of 300 game winners of the 19th century for their wins from a 45 or 50 foot pitching distance, or Babe Ruth's HRs to a 298 ft right field line. In fact, we celebrate them. Also, Barnes led the league in doubles and triples multiple times. I don't believe those hits were all the result of fair-foul hits.

[howard38]

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[GaryPassamonte]

Maybe the Ruth example wasn't a good one, but you understand my point. The arbitrary 10 year rule excluding pre-1871 players from HOF consideration is really the crux of my argument in this thread. Negro League players with little or no Major League experience have been allowed entrance to the HOF because they were not allowed to play in the Major Leagues at the time. I fully agree with this consideration. Pre-1871 players did not play in the Major Leagues because there were none. These players should be given consideration similar to that given Negro League players. I am a Barnes supporter, but there are others excluded because of the same circumstances. I believe the pre-1871 players are the only group currently excluded from HOF consideration by a rule that shouldn't pertain to them.

[howard38]

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[GaryPassamonte]

My thoughts have always been that if a rule can be excepted once (Joss), it can be excepted again.

[GaryPassamonte]

Today 5/8 is Ross Barnes' 163rd birthday. Anybody out there believe he belongs in the HOF?

[GaryPassamonte]

I'm still trying to drum up support for Ross Barnes and his Hall of Fame case. Here in Mount Morris NY, Barnes's hometown, a committee has been formed to come up with ways to explain Barnes' case, as well as create more exposure for him. "Get Ross Barnes In the Hall of Fame" is a Facebook page. Any "likes" for the page or sharing of it wouldn't hurt. I appreciate any help. Thanks.

[barrysloate]

Gary is mentioned in today's New York Times, as a visitor to yesterday's Hall of Fame ceremony. He states that he hopes Ross Barnes will soon be elected by the preintegration committee. Well done Gary!

[drcy]

Ross who?

[drcy]

Oh, that Ross.

What the hey.

But wait until I get a stash of his rookie cards.

[GaryPassamonte]

Ross Barnes has won the Most Overlooked 19th Century Legend vote for 2013. This vote is conducted by SABR. He joins Pete Browning, Deacon White, Harry Stovey, and Bill Dahlen, who were previous years' winners. Every name on the list belongs in the HOF. White was elected this year and Dahlen missed being elected by only one vote this year.

David- I will pay you dearly for those rookie cards.

[esd10]

there are a few 19th century players that deserve to be in the hof such as tony mullane, pete browning and ross barnes ect. the problem is these players for the most part are not known bye fans of today so they are pushed to the back of the line so to speak for the hall of fame.