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Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used

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  #1  
Old 07-19-2016, 10:33 AM
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Default Original negatives- underrated? Show yours

As many of you know, I am an original photo collector. That will never change as it is my hobby passion.
That said, I have recently been facinsted in original negatives(glass, acetate and slides/from camera etc. ). Perhaps it is because they are part of the photo process. They are the closest link to the photographer other than the camera. They also give me the ability to make the highest quality prints that no one else has. They are true 1 of 1s.
Anyone else find them undervalued /interesting?

The knock is that they are hard to display. I think they would actually be neat displayed with a corresponding original print.

Attached is a Burke Ruth I own. I would love to hear other's thoughts and see other examples.
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Old 07-19-2016, 10:35 AM
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Default Original

I actually have an original type 1 example of this one.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:40 PM
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Negatives are awesome and it like you said, the closest thing to holding a piece of history you can get as it was handled and touched by the photographer and was right there next to the player on the field at one point. There is nothing else in the hobby like holding an original glass plate negative.

The downside is they are very tough to display so it takes a special person to appreciate them for what they are. It would not surprise me if they made a major jump in price, but it also would not surprise me if they never really took off considering the limitations of display.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:48 PM
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Negatives are awesome and it like you said, the closest thing to holding a piece of history you can get as it was handled and touched by the photographer and was right there next to the player on the field at one point. There is nothing else in the hobby like holding an original glass plate negative.

The downside is they are very tough to display so it takes a special person to appreciate them for what they are. It would not surprise me if they made a major jump in price, but it also would not surprise me if they never really took off considering the limitations of display.
So again, display is the only limitation? Perhaps we need to come up with something?! A display with a high Res print is cleRly the way. The key is not to damage the negative.
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Old 07-19-2016, 02:11 PM
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That's the tough part. Exposure to normal light in a room would damage the negative over time. Would need to come up with a way to display the photo plus the negative while not damaging the negative.

Here are a few that I still have:

Ruth taking batting practice on opening day at Yankee Stadium in 1923



Ruth signing for a fan



1912 Giants on field before first game of World Series



Shot of crowd during Merkle replay game 1908



Tom C
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Old 07-19-2016, 03:13 PM
steve B steve B is offline
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Some stuff on the care of glass plate negatives. Film negatives will differ a bit and are a bit more complex

http://www.webjunction.org/documents...Negatives.html

Steve B
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Old 07-19-2016, 03:32 PM
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Default Negs

I love the fact that original negs are truly 1 of 1.

I think there is, or will be, a solid market for vintage original negs. We may see that they will become quite sought after and their prices will reflect their desirability. Although they can be fragile, prone to deterioration and can be tough to adequately display; they will still find buyers. Collectors buy many items just to stash away. Collectors don't display every photo or card they own. Negs can be acquired and then stored away just like everything else. I think that they are now collectibles in their own right and not just a means to produce photos.

I haven't heard any updates recently, but the collection of original Conlon negs (glass plates only) was slated to be sold off sometime this summer by the receivers of the Rogers' holdings. I am sure the sale has been pushed back considering I haven't heard any push leading up to the sale.

Here are a few of my original Conlons 4 x 5s on acetate safety film. He switched to acetate from glass in the 1930s. Note the company name on the envelope he stored one in.
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by horzverti View Post
I love the fact that original negs are truly 1 of 1.

I think there is, or will be, a solid market for vintage original negs. We may see that they will become quite sought after and their prices will reflect their desirability. Although they can be fragile, prone to deterioration and can be tough to adequately display; they will still find buyers. Collectors buy many items just to stash away. Collectors don't display every photo or card they own. Negs can be acquired and then stored away just like everything else. I think that they are now collectibles in their own right and not just a means to produce photos.

I haven't heard any updates recently, but the collection of original Conlon negs (glass plates only) was slated to be sold off sometime this summer by the receivers of the Rogers' holdings. I am sure the sale has been pushed back considering I haven't heard any push leading up to the sale.

Here are a few of my original Conlons 4 x 5s on acetate safety film. He switched to acetate from glass in the 1930s. Note the company name on the envelope he stored one in.
I can't see what they say.
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:31 PM
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Default Negs

The white one is a The Evening Telegram mailing envelope cut in half. It seems Charlie had so many negs, he ran out of his supply of the tan, cardboard-ish storage envelopes. So he used his employer's envelopes. Cool connection between Conlon and his newspaper employer.
I don't have the negs readily available to re-photograph right now. I'll see if I can add a larger or more tightly cropped picture later.
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:33 PM
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Default Pics

Found one
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:53 PM
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Found one
Very very cool curt! Any Ruth or gehrig?
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:27 PM
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I would have to agree that original negatives are underrated. I have been purchasing them for years. My archives includes about 25 glass plate negatives, about 150 4x5 acetates, a half dozen or so 2x2's, several hundred 35 mm. I also have several magic lantern slides and about 3,000 transparencies/slides from 1956 to 1996. All of mine are Olympic related. They go along with my 8-10,000 original images of all sizes. Here are a few slides and negatives.

1964 Olympic baseball team on their way to Tokyo. The team includes future major leaguers Al Closter, Dick Joyce, Chuck Dobson, Jim HIbbs, Ken Suarez, Shaun Fitzmaurice, Mike Epstein and Gary Sutherland

1956 Olympic boxing team at the trials - silver medalist and Boxing HOFer Jose Torres is 3rd from the right.

1984 Women's Olympic marathon - all of the U.S.women are in this image. Joan Benoit, the gold medalist is on the left in the white cap.

Steve Alford in high school - NCAA Champ and Olympic gold medal in basketball.

Horace Ashenfelter on right and other athlete in the Olympic Village Melbourne, Australia 1956. He won a gold medal in 1952

Bobby Joe Morrow in 1956. He won 3 gold medals at the Olympics. SI Sportsman of the Year in 1956 and also appeared on the cover of Life magazine.

Bill Russell in the Olympic Village in 1956. His face is in the shadows and I am asking one of my photoshop people to lighten the face.
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File Type: jpg 64-baseball2redo.jpg (29.1 KB, 387 views)
File Type: jpg 1956-boxingredo.jpg (37.1 KB, 390 views)
File Type: jpg 1984-marathon-2.jpg (31.0 KB, 388 views)
File Type: jpg alfordredo.jpg (12.6 KB, 389 views)
File Type: jpg ashenfelter-1956redo.jpg (22.7 KB, 387 views)
File Type: jpg morrowredo.jpg (35.4 KB, 389 views)
File Type: jpg russell 1956.jpg (71.7 KB, 387 views)
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Old 07-28-2016, 06:55 PM
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Default negatives

I don't know enough about how to prevent deterioration to know how to preserve negatives over the long haul. I have old negatives that have become brittle over time.
The only thing I don't like is so many are being bought and pictures reproduced and sold on ebay for little or nothing.
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Old 09-15-2016, 06:46 PM
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A few years back, I bought a batch of Reds' negatives from the 1939-40 era off eBay. A couple weeks later, I noticed they were smoking (no joke!). Soon, they had melted into a puddle of goo. I was never very good at chemistry, but I figured some kind of chemical reaction was going on. At this point, I decided to give up collecting negatives, but I did get a couple nice prints made from them before they self-destructed.
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Old 07-19-2016, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forever Young View Post
Anyone else find them undervalued /interesting?
ABSOLUTELY!!!! And to be honest, I hope they stay that way, because it's that many more that I can pick up on a limited budget

As others have said, I really don't care about displayability personally, though I can see how that would be a deterrent to some. If I displayed every photo or negative that I have, I'd have to cover the house inside and out (and I'm sure my boys would promptly destroy them as they have the rest of my house).

One thing I do like about them is how well they store away, since I am admittedly a bit of a hoarder (well, except glass plates, I guess). I also love the detailed images that they produce if you've got the right scanner. The 1/1 aspect is neat too, though my favorites are the ones of guys where that may well be the 1/1 image of that obscure player in ANY medium.

But seriously, who really wants to collect negatives? Everyone should just lot up what they have and sell them off cheap, or better yet, just throw them out. Just be sure to let me know which dumpster they're going in
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:04 PM
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ABSOLUTELY!!!! And to be honest, I hope they stay that way, because it's that many more that I can pick up on a limited budget

As others have said, I really don't care about displayability personally, though I can see how that would be a deterrent to some. If I displayed every photo or negative that I have, I'd have to cover the house inside and out (and I'm sure my boys would promptly destroy them as they have the rest of my house).

One thing I do like about them is how well they store away, since I am admittedly a bit of a hoarder (well, except glass plates, I guess). I also love the detailed images that they produce if you've got the right scanner. The 1/1 aspect is neat too, though my favorites are the ones of guys where that may well be the 1/1 image of that obscure player in ANY medium.

But seriously, who really wants to collect negatives? Everyone should just lot up what they have and sell them off cheap, or better yet, just throw them out. Just be sure to let me know which dumpster they're going in
Please post some of the favorites in your collection!
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:31 PM
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Default Lou neg

Here is my one Gehrig negative. I am not sure of the year or who took the shot. It is not near the caliber of Mark's Gehrigs, but I like it. I used the xray photo booth mode on my iPad to make a positive image. Some clarity seems to have been lost in translation. Lance, I still haven't bought a new scanner which would accommodate these.
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:33 PM
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Here is my one Gehrig negative. I am not sure of the year or who took the shot. It is not near the caliber of Mark's Gehrigs, but I like it. I used the xray photo booth mode on my iPad to make a positive image. Some clarity seems to have been lost in translation. Lance, I still haven't bought a new scanner which would accommodate these.
That's actually a shot I have seen many times I believe in original photos. Very nice
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:20 PM
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Curt,
I own an original of that photo. It's from 1938 from Lou's 2000th consecutive game.
Nice job.


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Old 07-21-2016, 08:38 PM
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Default More negs

Here are a few more original Conlon negatives:

1938 John Riddle Boston Braves
1938 Steve O'Neil Cleveland Indians
1938 Earle Brucker Philadelphia Athletics
1940 Mickey Witek NY Giants
1940-42 Taffy Wright Chicago White Sox (same batting practice session)
1939 Taffy Wright Washington Senators
1939 Earl Averill Detroit Tigers

Most of the portraits were used in the following year's Reach or Spalding guide (depending on the league).
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File Type: jpg 1938 John Riddle Boston Braves.jpg (77.0 KB, 373 views)
File Type: jpg SteveONeil1938REACHGuide.jpg (77.6 KB, 369 views)
File Type: jpg EarleBrucker1938ReachGuide.jpg (81.2 KB, 381 views)
File Type: jpg NYGiantsMickeyWitek1940.jpg (77.7 KB, 375 views)
File Type: jpg 1940 to 42 Taffy Wright ChiSox 1.jpg (76.7 KB, 380 views)
File Type: jpg 1940 to 42 Taffy Wright ChiSox 2.jpg (77.7 KB, 374 views)
File Type: jpg 1939 Taffy Wright Senators.jpg (77.7 KB, 373 views)
File Type: jpg 1939 Earl Averill Tigers.jpg (77.6 KB, 371 views)
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Old 07-21-2016, 09:13 PM
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Default More negs

Here is the 1939 Conlon negative of Jack Kramer of the St. Louis Browns. I also attached photos of the 1940 Reach guide to show how Conlon's work was used in the guides.

Charles Conlon really was a significant part of the game for nearly 40 years of the first half of the 20th century. So much of baseball's visual history was recorded through his lens. It is too bad that during his lifetime he didn't receive the proper credit for the legend that he is.
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File Type: jpg JackKramerin1940ReachGuide.jpg (78.1 KB, 428 views)
File Type: jpg 1939JackKramerStLBrowns 001.jpg (76.0 KB, 433 views)
File Type: jpg JackKramerin1940ReachGuideClose.jpg (77.7 KB, 424 views)
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:13 AM
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Default conlon negatives

My goodness,

One lot.. all the marbles.. one big ball of wax.. the whole sha-bang....

I sure hope someone with integrity wins this with the intention of keeping it all together and accepts the role of curator. They can also make money as they will get rights to the imagery through the 50% share of licensing.

THIS is the most important lot of baseball history for me personally and I sure wish I could afford to own/care for it.

Any guesses on how much it will go for? I am guessing 2-3 million but think it is worth more. Unfortunately, it has to be rushed to auction because of the circumstances. That will benefit the winner. If I had the money, it would be mine... all mine.. moo hoo hoo hahaha!

http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/th...ription-071515
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:21 AM
btcarfagno btcarfagno is offline
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I almost fainted when I saw that. The Cobb slide photo original negative? That is likely the most famous photo in the history of the sport.

I think that your ideas seem to also be the desire of the auction house as well, as they are not splitting it up to maximize profit. Unless that is a stipulation of the sale perhaps.

Absolutely amazing.

Tom C
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:30 AM
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I almost fainted when I saw that. The Cobb slide photo original negative? That is likely the most famous photo in the history of the sport.

I think that your ideas seem to also be the desire of the auction house as well, as they are not splitting it up to maximize profit. Unless that is a stipulation of the sale perhaps.

Absolutely amazing.

Tom C
Yes.. .at first I was disappointed(for selfish reasons) as I wanted to own as many as I could afford and really wanted to own a Ruth AND Gehrig for my collection.
After the initial disappointment, I was relieved as it really does all need to stay together for historical purpose and cataloguing. Conlon is the backbone of baseball photography\imagry.
I would hate to see it split up like the Burke negatives. All of that Burke history lost/scattered and sold for peanuts/blown out. The burke negatives really could have helped grow the hobby as they were all numbered.. collectible. Almost like a baseball card set imo. Had great potential.
The former owner of these two archives really messed things up. Thank goodness these Conlons stayed in tact!!
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