Autograph News Live - criminals or just cowards?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by sago

http://www.stephenkoschal.com/testimonials.html

Are these quotes taken out of context, made up, very old, or something else?

"I, Michael Frost President and lead authenticator of P.A.A.S. Professional Autograph Authentication Services have known Stephen Koschal for over 20 years. I am proud to have worked with Stephen Koschal for many of those years on autograph studies and autograph authentication. I would consider him as the top autograph expert in the world today. Stephen Koschal's library of autograph exemplars is second to none and I have had the pleasure of using and viewing his autograph exemplar library. Stephen Koschal has written many books and 100's of articles on autograph collecting and autograph reviews and authentication. Stephen Koschal is one of my teachers and mentors when it comes to autograph studies and authentication. I have spent 100's of hours working with Stephen Koschal as well as reviewing his authentication work. I have always found him to be very professional and one of the most honest people I ever met within the autograph industry. In all the years I have known Stephen Koschal and worked with him I can not recall a single item ever being returned or questioned on the basis of authentication.".................................. .................................................. ......................Mike Frost, Florida


"your experience always brings a smile to my face...." Richard Simon, Sports Autograph Expert/Authenticator

Stephen has a vast knowledge in certain fields of autographs including presidents, which I do collect. It is possible that I was thanking him for examining a presidential autograph for me that I was considering as a purchase and made such a comment. I don't specifically recall the comment but it is something I might have said in a thank you to him.

[Michael Frost]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Geez, Mike, you roll in here like gangbusters and then you claim (sounding like Todd Mueller) that every forgery with your COA must be an altered or fake PAAS COA.

C'mon, Mike.

Then you play the "Anti-PAAS" game.

You're not an innocent victim here.



When I get home tonight, I will post another autograph with a PAAS COA and you can tell us if the COA has been altered or "faked."

I am not coming in like gangbusters and I am not going to steal any of your glory nor trying take your place as the Net54 Mantle expert. I am sure you probably can find a C.O.A. or two that will be up for debate or deputed. I am far from perfect but I do not believe that any other authentication company out there today does a better or more precise examination. Please remember we authenticate over 1000 pieces a month and 100's of On-line examinations per week. When you find one or 2 items the you may feel uncomfortable with or you may have a difference in opinion with that is a far cry from saying that almost everything P.A.A.S. authenticate is bad. This is just forgers propaganda or a competitor with an agenda. I see they say the same thing on many forger friendly websites said about you, JSA and PSA.

Here are what the rest of the industry says about P.A.A.S.
http://www.paasautographs.com/testimonials.html


Ebay Member id - pro-authentication (1301) 100%

100%
This member's 12 month Feedback ratings
Positives: 83 Negatives: 0


This member's positive Feedback percentage

83
83 + 0
= 100.0%


Positive Feedback (last 12 months): 100%

Member since: Jan-22-04 in United States

[shelly]

Mike, I depend on the knowledge of a few people when it come to autographs. You would never be one of them. If someone did forge your cert I am sure it was for the intention to insult you. There would be no monetary reason to do it. You went to bed with dogs and woke up with fleas. Now you want to get rid of them. No so easy to do.

[Big Dave]

Shelly....seriously?

You should be one of the last people on here casting stones against redemption, or trying to better one's public persona. Mr. Frost may or may not have authenticated some questionable items, but you personally sold a lot of forgeries that you knew for a fact were forgeries.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by shelly

Mike, I depend on the knowledge of a few people when it come to autographs. You would never be one of them. If someone did forge your cert I am sure it was for the intention to insult you. There would be no monetary reason to do it. You went to bed with dogs and woke up with fleas. Now you want to get rid of them. No so easy to do.

So what is a guy that has made mistakes supposed to do (Not saying Mike did, I don't know)? Can they not ever come clean and get another chance by doing the right things? Or does it just take time?

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Shelly....seriously?

You should be one of the last people on here casting stones against redemption, or trying to better one's public persona. Mr. Frost may or may not have authenticated some questionable items, but you personally sold a lot of forgeries that you knew for a fact were forgeries.

+100....Although I am somewhat skeptical of Mr. Frost's past...I do respect that he has maintained his composure in this thread and has not turned it into a circus.

Jeff

[slidekellyslide]

Good guys and bad guys are hard to discern in the autograph hobby...someone needs to keep a scorecard.

[joed25]

Originally Posted by Leon

So what is a guy that has made mistakes supposed to do (Not saying Mike did, I don't know)? Can they not ever come clean and get another chance by doing the right things? Or does it just take time?

Isn't he still "authenticating" lol. Everyone knows PAAS is cr*p. Please stop this nonsense. It is EXTREMELY insulting.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Shelly....seriously?

You should be one of the last people on here casting stones against redemption, or trying to better one's public persona. Mr. Frost may or may not have authenticated some questionable items, but you personally sold a lot of forgeries that you knew for a fact were forgeries.

Dave it took me fourteen years to gain respect from most people .. It does not happen overnight. I dont have to be forgiving you dont seem to be. I stated what I thought Of Mike. That is how I feel. It gets a little bit discusting that after fourteen years the only thing that you can attack me with is something that I have admited to and tried my hardest to make up for. I have earned my right to be here and you can stick it if your not happy with it.Same goes for anyone else that feels like Jeff and Dave. Dave like I said I am intitled to my opinion you yours and you are not going to take that from me insults or not.

[shelly]

Originally Posted by Leon

So what is a guy that has made mistakes supposed to do (Not saying Mike did, I don't know)? Can they not ever come clean and get another chance by doing the right things? Or does it just take time?

Yes Leon of course he does but not in a day. It takes time.

[Michael Frost]

Originally Posted by shelly

Dave it took me fourteen years to gain respect from most people .. It does not happen overnight. I dont have to be forgiving you dont seem to be. I stated what I thought Of Mike. That is how I feel. It gets a little bit discusting that after fourteen years the only thing that you can attack me with is something that I have admited to and tried my hardest to make up for. I have earned my right to be here and you can stick it if your not happy with it.Same goes for anyone else that feels like Jeff and Dave. Dave like I said I am intitled to my opinion you yours and you are not going to take that from me insults or not.

I am not here to fight or debate with people who in reality are all on the same side. The insults and accusations can go on forever but as you already know the forgeries eat these things up. All we are doing is giving them ammunition to use against honest dealers and honest autograph authenticators.
I have seen it used and happen over and over again. As we fight among ourselves there are 1000's of Mickey Mantle's, Muhammad Ali's Joe DiMaggio's, Beatles, Madonna's etc. being sold . If you do not need any help here to try to help expose and rid the Internet and auction sites of this garbage that is fine. This infighting and the knocking of JSA, PSA, PAAS and even Global does nothing more then add fire power to the forgers fight. I am not looking for and attention, any promotion, any glory just thought I was coming here to help.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by shelly

Dave it took me fourteen years to gain respect from most people .. It does not happen overnight. I dont have to be forgiving you dont seem to be. I stated what I thought Of Mike. That is how I feel. It gets a little bit discusting that after fourteen years the only thing that you can attack me with is something that I have admited to and tried my hardest to make up for. I have earned my right to be here and you can stick it if your not happy with it.Same goes for anyone else that feels like Jeff and Dave. Dave like I said I am intitled to my opinion you yours and you are not going to take that from me insults or not.

Really Shelly, I don't know how you can tell me to stick it. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. BUT, I am surprised that you find it disgusting when someone brings your past up yet it is in the context of you questioning Mr. Frost's (who I have never heard of before this thread) past without provocation. This doesn't make sense to me.

Jeff

[joed25]

Originally Posted by Michael Frost

I am not here to fight or debate with people who in reality are all on the same side. The insults and accusations can go on forever but as you already know the forgeries eat these things up. All we are doing is giving them ammunition to use against honest dealers and honest autograph authenticators.
I have seen it used and happen over and over again. As we fight among ourselves there are 1000's of Mickey Mantle's, Muhammad Ali's Joe DiMaggio's, Beatles, Madonna's etc. being sold . If you do not need any help here to try to help expose and rid the Internet and auction sites of this garbage that is fine. This infighting and the knocking of JSA, PSA, PAAS and even Global does nothing more then add fire power to the forgers fight. I am not looking for and attention, any promotion, any glory just thought I was coming here to help.

Are you equating PASS and Global to PSA and JSA???

[shelly]

[QUOTE=ibuysportsephemera;1185855]Really Shelly, I don't know how you can tell me to stick it. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. BUT, I am surprised that you find it disgusting when someone brings your past up yet it is in the context of you questioning Mr. Frost's (who I have never heard of before this thread) past without provocation. This doesn't make sense to me.

Jeff[/QUOTe
You might not of heard about him but I have for a lot of years. If you can only bring up my past then you dont know me either. I am talking about the present with Mr. Frost. Untill they turned on him he was there best friend . My past is mine and I have to live with it which I have done. Mr Frost has to live with what he has done.
I don't find it disguting that you bring up my past. I find it disgusting that you have to use it in an agruement. I said the truth the past has nothing to do with that.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Michael Frost

This infighting and the knocking of JSA, PSA, PAAS and even Global does nothing more then add fire power to the forgers fight.

That's a really nutty statement.

Originally Posted by Michael Frost

I am not looking for and attention, any promotion, any glory just thought I was coming here to help.

It sounded like you came here to air a bunch of dirty laundry because you felt like you had personally gotten a bad deal from these guys. That's fine, but I doubt it's helping anyone here.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Shelly....seriously?

You should be one of the last people on here casting stones against redemption, or trying to better one's public persona. Mr. Frost may or may not have authenticated some questionable items, but you personally sold a lot of forgeries that you knew for a fact were forgeries.

I have a ton of respect for Shelly, Dave.

He paid a heavy price for what he did. Not only that, but Shelly has never never stuck his head in the sand and hid from anyone. He withstood a ton of bashing and has gained the respect of a lot of people and he is still here.

Shelly also possesses a ton of wealth and knowledge of the hobby and he shares that knowledge with the hobby.

Shelly also gained a ton of respect from a few in the FBI.

You can bash Shelly all you want, but he's not going anywhere and I'm proud to call him my friend.

[perezfan]

With all of the bad grammar and dozens of spelling errors in this thread, I am surprised that any of these people can authenticate anything. Shouldn't the basic ability to spell be a prerequisite for becoming an authenticator of autographs?

This discussion is going nowhere, as long as these people continue with their mindless backbiting and blind defense of their own personal agendas. The Autograph Forum has become the virtual mosh pit of Net54. I cannot fathom why any new collectors would choose to enter into this arena.... Very bad for the hobby, IMHO.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I have a ton of respect for Shelly, Dave.

He paid a heavy price for what he did. Not only that, but Shelly has never never stuck is head in the stand and hid from anyone. He withstood a ton of bashing and has gained the respect of a lot of people and he is still here.

Shelly also possesses a ton of wealth and knowledge of the hobby and he shares that knowledge with the hobby.

Shelly also gained a ton of respect from a few in the FBI.

You can bash Shelly all you want, but he's not going anywhere and I'm proud to call him my friend.

+1

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

I have a ton of respect for Shelly, Dave.

He paid a heavy price for what he did. Not only that, but Shelly has never never stuck is head in the stand and hid from anyone. He withstood a ton of bashing and has gained the respect of a lot of people and he is still here.

Shelly also possesses a ton of wealth and knowledge of the hobby and he shares that knowledge with the hobby.

Shelly also gained a ton of respect from a few in the FBI.

You can bash Shelly all you want, but he's not going anywhere and I'm proud to call him my friend.

+++++
And, he made restitution for the bad items which he sold.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by perezfan

The Autograph Forum has become the virtual mosh pit of Net54. I cannot fathom why any new collectors would choose to enter into this arena.... Very bad for the hobby, IMHO.

We need to work toward a better mosh pit.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Runscott

We need to work toward a better mosh pit.

Infinitely better!

[shelly]

Originally Posted by perezfan

With all of the bad grammar and dozens of spelling errors in this thread, I am surprised that any of these people can authenticate anything. Shouldn't the basic ability to spell be a prerequisite for becoming an authenticator of autographs?

This discussion is going nowhere, as long as these people continue with their mindless backbiting and blind defense of their own personal agendas. The Autograph Forum has become the virtual mosh pit of Net54. I cannot fathom why any new collectors would choose to enter into this arena.... Very bad for the hobby, IMHO.

I take it yours is poor spelling.

[joed25]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

i have a ton of respect for shelly, dave.

He paid a heavy price for what he did. Not only that, but shelly has never never stuck his head in the stand and hid from anyone. He withstood a ton of bashing and has gained the respect of a lot of people and he is still here.

Shelly also possesses a ton of wealth and knowledge of the hobby and he shares that knowledge with the hobby.

Shelly also gained a ton of respect from a few in the fbi.

You can bash shelly all you want, but he's not going anywhere and i'm proud to call him my friend.

+100

[ibuysportsephemera]

[quote=shelly;1185982]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Really Shelly, I don't know how you can tell me to stick it. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. BUT, I am surprised that you find it disgusting when someone brings your past up yet it is in the context of you questioning Mr. Frost's (who I have never heard of before this thread) past without provocation. This doesn't make sense to me.

Jeff[/QUOTe
You might not of heard about him but I have for a lot of years. If you can only bring up my past then you dont know me either. I am talking about the present with Mr. Frost. Untill they turned on him he was there best friend . My past is mine and I have to live with it which I have done. Mr Frost has to live with what he has done.
I don't find it disguting that you bring up my past. I find it disgusting that you have to use it in an agruement. I said the truth the past has nothing to do with that.

Shelly, I have no beef with you, Dave or Mike (or anyone else on Net54). I certainly didn't bring up your past either. I do believe that "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" and will leave the discussion at that.

Jeff

[thetruthisoutthere]

Mike, below is a PAAS COA that I have in my files.

Is this a legitimate PAAS COA or not?

Frost-Ruth-2.jpg

[Mr. Zipper]

Over the past few months I have come to know Shelly and consider him a friend. Clearly he made some serious mistakes in the past, but he has paid his dues to society and is the first to admit past mistakes. In the more recent past he has done a lot of "behind the scenes" work to combat fraud in the hobby. In my opinion, it is unfair to throw his past in his face to impugn his credibility.

By all accounts Mike Frost has made some missteps as well, and it looks like he is trying to make amends. I give him the benefit of the doubt and wish him the best of luck. It may be a journey, but if he stays on a righteous path, he can do it.

At the end of the day we all want the same thing - fraud rooted out, forgers and their distributors put out of business and a healthy hobby for the next generation.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

By all accounts Mike Frost has made some missteps as well, and it looks like he is trying to make amends. I give him the benefit of the doubt and wish him the best of luck. It may be a journey, but if he stays on a righteous path, he can do it.

He has a long way to go, but his actions will speak louder than words.

[Runscott]

[QUOTE=ibuysportsephemera;1186101]

Originally Posted by shelly

Shelly, I have no beef with you, Dave or Mike (or anyone else on Net54). I certainly didn't bring up your past either. I do believe that "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" and will leave the discussion at that.

Jeff

Jeff, Shelly isn't in a 'glass house'. His house is well-defined, and has been for many years. Throw out another metaphor and we'll see if it sticks.

[ibuysportsephemera]

[quote=Runscott;1186128]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Jeff, Shelly isn't in a 'glass house'. His house is well-defined, and has been for many years. Throw out another metaphor and we'll see if it sticks.

Scott, I don't have to answer to you or anyone else. This is between Shelly and I and I have tried to end it. I call it like I see it. I try to act like a gentleman and hope others do as well. I voiced my opinion and I don't need Shelly to tell me to stick it because I happen to agree with another poster. I don't know most of you personally, but I can see where people defend their friends whether they are right or wrong. All I said was that Mr. Frost has handled himself better then most under extreme criticism even though I am skeptical of his motivations for being here.

Jeff

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Scott, I don't have to answer to you or anyone else. This is between Shelly and I and I have tried to end it. I call it like I see it. I try to act like a gentleman and hope others do as well. I voiced my opinion and I don't need Shelly to tell me to stick it because I happen to agree with another poster. I don't know most of you personally, but I can see where people defend their friends whether they are right or wrong. All I said was that Mr. Frost has handled himself better then most under extreme criticism even though I am skeptical of his motivations for being here.

Jeff

WTF - through wasting my time in this thread. Jeff - knock yourself out.

[ibuysportsephemera]

[quote=Runscott;1186138]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

WTF - through wasting my time in this thread. Jeff - knock yourself out.

Scott, I agree..since I don't have a horse in this race, I am also done.

Jeff

[gnaz01]

[QUOTE=ibuysportsephemera;1186140]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Scott, I agree..since I don't have a horse in this race, I am also done.

Jeff

Jeff,

No offense, but you have said a lot of interesting things, but according to the rules, shouldn't your whole name appear in your posts??

Leon, am I incorrect here??

Greg

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Scott, I agree..since I don't have a horse in this race, I am also done.

Jeff

Jeff, we all have horses in this race. I stay away from most of the stuff that is easy pickings for the guys mentioned in this thread, but it's still part of our hobby. For example, the Ruth sig posted by Chris, authenticated by PAAS. Simply horrid. The sad truth is that anyone can simply declare themselves an 'expert' and start producing COA's. Sometimes I just have to tell myself that all of that bullshit doesn't affect me personally - it's only fvcking over people who blindly follow the TPA's. But somehow that still isn't very consoling.

My apologies for jumping on you, but yeah, Shelly is a friend. It's probably true that we cut our friends a little more slack than people who we consider assholes.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Mike, below is a PAAS COA that I have in my files.

Is this a legitimate PAAS COA or not?

Attachment 114599

This one is as horrible as they come. I would very much like to hear Mike's explanation for it. My guess is gross incompetence rather than fraud.

[ibuysportsephemera]

[quote=gnaz01;1186180]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Jeff,

No offense, but you have said a lot of interesting things, but according to the rules, shouldn't your whole name appear in your posts??

Leon, am I incorrect here??

Greg

Sure...Jeff G@rf!nkel

[ibuysportsephemera]

[quote=Runscott;1186185]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Jeff, we all have horses in this race. I stay away from most of the stuff that is easy pickings for the guys mentioned in this thread, but it's still part of our hobby. For example, the Ruth sig posted by Chris, authenticated by PAAS. Simply horrid. The sad truth is that anyone can simply declare themselves an 'expert' and start producing COA's. Sometimes I just have to tell myself that all of that bullshit doesn't affect me personally - it's only fvcking over people who blindly follow the TPA's. But somehow that still isn't very consoling.

My apologies for jumping on you, but yeah, Shelly is a friend. It's probably true that we cut our friends a little more slack than people who we consider assholes.

Thanks Scott...I really wasn't trying to cause trouble. I probably should have just minded my own business. I should just stick to posting about sports memorabilia.

Jeff

[Runscott]

It's impossible for me to stay out of threads like this, even though my only intersection with this stuff is pre-war autographs. And I haven't even yet said what I really think of the original post - as the thread has progressed, I have felt less and less need to.

Okay, hell, I'll do it anyway: There are way too many threads started in forums by brand-new members, simply spewing venom against former business partners. To borrow from Shelly's metaphor, to me it looks like a dog with fleas complaining about other dogs who have a few more fleas, the original dog not realizing that all the other dogs are thinking "get a friggin flea collar and shut up"

[slidekellyslide]

I find threads like these to be educational for those of us who have not been collecting autographs for 40 years. I had never heard of PAAS before and I also had no idea that Richard Simon once worked at/for American Memorabilia. It's amazing how much venom there is between people who all seem to have the same agenda. It's a train wreck that I can't seem to avert my eyes from.

[shelly]

Dan, after the UCLA game I can understand why you have nothing better to do. Go Buckeyes.
s

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I find threads like these to be educational for those of us who have not been collecting autographs for 40 years. I had never heard of PAAS before and I also had no idea that Richard Simon once worked at/for American Memorabilia. It's amazing how much venom there is between people who all seem to have the same agenda. It's a train wreck that I can't seem to avert my eyes from.

Dan - I was an autograph authenticator for American Memorabilia. That meant every time they had material for a new catalog I would fly to Las Vegas and examine autograph material for them. That was how I worked at/for them. Now it is PSA's job. I am sure they are finding it as "amusing" as I did.

[Michael Frost]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Mike, below is a PAAS COA that I have in my files.

Is this a legitimate PAAS COA or not?

Attachment 114599

Chris,
This is a legitimate PAAS cerificate. This is a big difference from the COA shown prior and now we can a honest discussion on the problems with this signature. I would like to hear your personally concerns with the signature and not just negative words being thrown around. I am hoping that your opinion would be based upon the signature and not the person that certed this item.
Thank you.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by shelly

Dan, after the UCLA game I can understand why you have nothing better to do. Go Buckeyes.
s

No doubt...Husker nation is in complete meltdown right now over Pelini.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Dan - I was an autograph authenticator for American Memorabilia. That meant every time they had material for a new catalog I would fly to Las Vegas and examine autograph material for them. That was how I worked at/for them. Now it is PSA's job. I am sure they are finding it as "amusing" as I did.

Well, at least they hire legit authenticators.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Over the past few months I have come to know Shelly and consider him a friend. Clearly he made some serious mistakes in the past, but he has paid his dues to society and is the first to admit past mistakes. In the more recent past he has done a lot of "behind the scenes" work to combat fraud in the hobby. In my opinion, it is unfair to throw his past in his face to impugn his credibility.

By all accounts Mike Frost has made some missteps as well, and it looks like he is trying to make amends. I give him the benefit of the doubt and wish him the best of luck. It may be a journey, but if he stays on a righteous path, he can do it.

At the end of the day we all want the same thing - fraud rooted out, forgers and their distributors put out of business and a healthy hobby for the next generation.

I agree wholeheartedly Zip...

[Runscott]

........


This is a thread that needs to experience a quick death

[Rich Klein]

The autograph guys are having all the fun

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

The autograph guys are having all the fun

Hey, at least they aren't threatening to sue Archive.

[Rich Klein]

but would not you like to be the one to defend archive in court

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by Michael Frost

Chris,
This is a legitimate PAAS cerificate. This is a big difference from the COA shown prior and now we can a honest discussion on the problems with this signature. I would like to hear your personally concerns with the signature and not just negative words being thrown around. I am hoping that your opinion would be based upon the signature and not the person that certed this item.
Thank you.

That Babe Ruth is an ugly forgery. Looks like it came from Coach's Corner.

Second, I would never base my opinion on an autograph on the person who certed it.

[Michael Frost]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

That Babe Ruth is an ugly forgery. Looks like it came from Coach's Corner.

Second, I would never base my opinion on an autograph on the person who certed it.

I do appreciate that and I respect your opinion. This item did not come from coaches corner and I would be happy to listen to any points you can make about the signature. I am with you not against you, for some reason I feel you have the wrong impression of me and my agenda. Like I said I have been involved in this industry longer the most and I can do nothing but help the good guys in there quest to fix the hobby.
What would you say about this Ruth signature, I was asked about last week.
psa ruth.jpg