Card doctoring...

[frankbmd]

Perhaps we should discuss the impact of card nursing on the hobby as well.

[packs]

If restoration is no big deal then it should be no big deal to disclose it either.

[drcy]

Originally Posted by packs

If restoration is no big deal then it should be no big deal to disclose it either.

Correct. When people say a type of restoration is no big deal, then they should have no problem disclosing it. That they don't want to disclose it at sale says the do think it is a 'deal' that affects resale value.

Another thing is that there are standard advanced scientific tests that are used elsewhere, but not with trading cards. That doesn't mean that ten or twenty years down the road, someone won't do the tests on today's cards to identify which have been altered.

I don't consider this whole discussion a big issue for collectors of mid to low grade cards-- which I assume is most people on this board. However, I think many collectors of highest grade graded cards are rubes.

There's another area (not cards) that I bet will be a matter of rude awakening for collectors in the future, but that's a topic for another discussion.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by drcy

Correct. When people say a type of restoration is no big deal, then they should have no problem disclosing it. That they don't want to disclose it at sale says the do think it is a 'deal' that affects resale value.

Another thing is that there are standard advanced scientific tests that are used elsewhere, but not with trading cards. That doesn't mean that ten or twenty years down the road, someone won't do the tests on today's cards to identify which have been altered.

I don't consider this whole discussion a big issue for collectors of mid to low grade cards-- which I assume is most people on this board. However, I think many collectors of highest grade graded cards are rubes.

There's another area (not cards) that I bet will be a matter of rude awakening for collectors in the future, but that's a topic for another discussion.

Can someone smarter than me tell me where the color has been added just by the eBay photos? The first card is mine and the second is a graded version currently for sale. I didn't pay a ton for mine so I'm not that upset. To be fair when I received the card I didn't examine it for color being added.

I'm still trying to figure out how to find these types of issues. If it really difficult when buying online.

Not trying to hijack the thread but figured this was relevant. I'd be happy to delete at the OP's request.

Thanks - Steve



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[drcy]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Can someone smarter than me tell me where the color has been added just by the eBay photos? The first card is mine and the second is a graded version currently for sale. I didn't pay a ton for mine so I'm not that upset. To be fair when I received the card I didn't examine it for color being added.

I'm still trying to figure out how to find these types of issues. If it really difficult when buying online.

Not trying to hijack the thread but figured this was relevant. I'd be happy to delete at the OP's request.

Thanks - Steve



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hold the undoldered card face at a nearing 180 degree angle to a light source, such as a desk lamp and change the angle a bit back and forth. Many ink such ups, erasure marks, etc will show up with this test. The difference in tone/color and/or gloss will show up. Also, as ink is often added to touch up the chipped or touched borders, check the thickness/edge of the card. Sometimes the pen went off the edge and appears on the thickness.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Can someone smarter than me tell me where the color has been added just by the eBay photos? The first card is mine and the second is a graded version currently for sale. I didn't pay a ton for mine so I'm not that upset. To be fair when I received the card I didn't examine it for color being added.

if you use the zoom feature in the original listing, it looks to me like color was added to the two right corners. Look at the back of the card (second pic). Do you see that the top two corners (which would be the two right corners) appear darker?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-TOPPS-...p2047675.l2557

Edited to add two things:

1) It looks to me like color has been added to all 4 corners.
2) Forget the recolor for just a minute. The seller describes the card as VG/EX. It looks VG/EX to me as well, but off center. If the card were submitted to PSA, it would probably grade a PSA 4 OC (assuming it wasn't recolored). I'm sure a PSA 4 OC Brock RC can be purchased for about $25 or less. If it's a must that your cards be graded, it might be better to buy them already graded, that way you know what you're getting.

[Marchillo]

Thanks

The last two posts are very helpful. I don't need to have a Brock RC graded. I do a submission once or twice a year. Some cards that are higher end and others to see, how am I doing, in the raw card world. Up until this latest submission I have received numerical grades for all my purchases. This time I got color added on two of them.

Better deals can be had in the raw market but there are more risks with a novice collector so I'm trying to learn (I also know from this post and others that grading services aren't perfect, but better than me).

I recent got a Yaz RC for $25 as well that got an SGC 60. That's a $75 plus card and more likely $100 or so. These are good cheap lessons to learn.

I still haven't left feedback for the seller and he hasn't offered much sympathy in response. Does a recoloring warrant a negative. Seller says he bought it off someone who came in his shop.

Also David one question for you. Would you have picked up on the color added by the scan if you didn't know about it originally? I'm sure most would have realized after receiving the card.

Steve

[conor912]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

Does a recoloring warrant a negative. Seller says he bought it off someone who came in his shop.

He sold you touched up cards then took zero responsibility and blamed someone else. I wouldn't call that a positive experience, would you?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Perhaps we should discuss the impact of card nursing on the hobby as well.

I suspect you would have made a better nurse than doctor yourself.

[buymycards]

Over the years there have been many posts in the BST that tout the card as having "wide" borders. When I see posts like that, my first thought is - Maybe the seller of the card is possibly suggesting that this would be a great card to trim. Otherwise, I don't see any extra value in cards with wide borders.

[DeanH3]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Over the years there have been many posts in the BST that tout the card as having "wide" borders. When I see posts like that, my first thought is - Maybe the seller of the card is possibly suggesting that this would be a great card to trim. Otherwise, I don't see any extra value in cards with wide borders.

I definitely see your point. For me, I love wide borders because it gives me some confidence that the card hasn't been trimmed. I know it's not a guarantee, but it helps.

[PiratesWS1979]

[QUOTE=DeanH3;1739835]I definitely see your point. For me, I love wide borders because it gives me some confidence that the card hasn't been trimmed. I know it's not a guarantee, but it helps.

I definitely look for T206s that fit in the PSA/SGC holder w/ very little gap.

[xplainer]

How would soaking fit into this discussion? Removing glue or tobacco stains from PBs for example. Just curious how this is looked upon.

[AGuinness]

Does anybody have an estimation of what percentage of cards presently residing in TPG cases have been altered? Or has a sample ever been taken?

[murphy8276]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

Does anybody have an estimation of what percentage of cards presently residing in TPG cases have been altered? Or has a sample ever been taken?

If it is every proven it is more than .0001%, we are all in deep **** with our collection value.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by murphy8276

If it is every proven it is more than .0001%, we are all in deep **** with our collection value.

Why? Judging by what I see, a whole heck of a lot of people don't care. They only care about getting the pretty card and flip they paid for, quickly, and well-packaged.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why? Judging by what I see, a whole heck of a lot of people don't care. They only care about getting the pretty card and flip they paid for, quickly, and well-packaged.

Peter, for argument’s sake, let’s say I agree with your premise that many altered cards reside in graded holders, AND I care about it, what’s your conclusion? What would you recommend one do? Avoid graded cards? Avoid high grade? To be clear, this is not intended to be a confrontational question. I’m genuinely interested on the advice you’d give a new collector given the reality of the things you’re mentioning.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by murphy8276

If it is every proven it is more than .0001%, we are all in deep **** with our collection value.

It's almost certainly more than that. They've done 29 million things, so that percentage means only about 3000 bad things getting through.

Considering that it's done by people, that percentage would mean they're doing a pretty good job.

[steve B]

I've said this before, but I think it bears some repeating.

The entire process for authentication and grading is backwards.

Sure, there are a lot of cards that can be done by pretty much anyone. Stuff that's not particularly prone to recoloring, and is in pretty worn condition. I'd say that cards with colored borders are more likely to be recolored even in lower grades - we've seen a great example right here.

But to take the cards, and push them through faster based on value is not what makes any sense. I suspect that actually only means the cards that are expensive get their limited inspection sooner, probably to make the insurance company happy.

Even if you can't accept a system that handles higher value cards more slowly, maybe a system that triaged where effort was spent?
Send in a box of VG anything, and it goes to the new guy. Send in a bunch of cards that might be in higher grades, send them to more experienced people. Possible high grade cards with fairly high value if they are high grade should get much more scrutiny. And I mean actually taking time to be sure everything is "right" with the card.
And if something isn't "right" put the opinion of that in writing so it's clear. No "questionable" authenticity, No "we won't slab it because it's been tampered with" none of that nonsense.
It wouldn't work for less expensive cards, but ultimately all card graded should have the flaws explained, and in writing.

Steve B

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by steve B

It's almost certainly more than that. They've done 29 million things, so that percentage means only about 3000 bad things getting through.

Considering that it's done by people, that percentage would mean they're doing a pretty good job.

Steve, over .0001% of 29 million things is not 3,000, it's 30.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I suspect you would have made a better nurse than doctor yourself.

Au contraire, I just made nurses better.