Mr. Lemke

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Hello sir,
Since you obviously read the board a fair amount I was wondering when you might answer my question about contributors to your Big Book getting a "comp" copy. It was not a rhetorical question. I can afford the $27.00 (and I have already ordered the 2004 book and it has shipped) but I just feel it is a little bit of "favoritism" to give another board member a copy when I, and others, have contributed with material also ......After I asked the question in the Old Judge thread I got comments from a few other board members with the same question. It's not that I/we necessarily want to be compensated but you would think that if I contributed say.....about 75k worth of card scans that I would be as entitled as the next guy....maybe I am wrong......live and learn I guess..Regardless, you still put out a great book and I appreciate your hard work.......regards all

[Archive]

Posted By: david

i would like to ask mr lemke why old judge spotted ties are priced so low. i realized that they are not offered at auction all that often but when they do they certainly go for more then a common would in the same grade yet they are priced nearly identical in the guide.

[Archive]

Posted By: Lee Behrens

Hi David,
This is not an attack on you just a general statement/question. I am crious why everyone is so concerned about the proper pricing in price guides. I think the majority of our purchases are bought in auctions which dictactes the value of a card at that time which is fair.

Yes it is nice to see that say you T206 Cobb is booking at $2000 but if you can only get $500 trying to sell it, I think we all than know the value of the card. I know that there are afew board members that have sold or tried to sell Topps cards on ebay, you are lucky to get 50% of book no matter how nice. Yes there is a market for these cards just not as high as the "book" prices them, maybe the "book needs adjusting there.

The authors of these Guides have an undaunting task and there will always be people thinking they are wrong. They are what they say in the title a "Guide", nothing more nothing less. They do offer a great cataloging service and I think that is why most of us buy the SCD.

Keep up the Great Job, Bob. And thanks for being a contributor!!!!!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Hankron

As a 'It's worth to you what it sells for' type of guy, I use price guides as a checklist/description, and the listed prices as a general/relative guide to rarity combined with popularity.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

but, I agree with Lee to an extent. A price guide needs to acurately reflect market values AT THE TIME the guide is compiled, but everyone has to realize that these prices include avenues of purchase other than ebay - I'm sure there are collectors out there who buy only from retailers via sales catalogs, and think they are getting a great deal if they pay anything less than SCBC guide value.

Conversely, some tough-to-find but low-demand items (thus low book values)sell abnormally high on ebay because ebay can reach more collectors than a KitYoung sales catalog, and you only need two collectors of a rare item to discover it on ebay, and prices soar way beyond book value. In those instances it's got to be tough to determine a catalog value - does the normal retailer price of $35 for an e95 vg common hold, or the $90 paid during a one-night PSA-graded feeding frenzy on ebay?

[Archive]

Posted By: Julian

I was just writing to thank Bob Lemke for page 314, middle column, bottom image. I have received my copy of the 2004 Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards. I'm thrilled to have a card of mine, shared with everybody else's contributions from previous years.

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

I have been contributing for years and so has dad. I believe our (his) name used to be in the book. Some of the new pictures are mine like the properly cut 1941 goudey. I have never received a free copy nor do I expect to. I am happy paying for the book. I know Al S. of Washington has been getting a comp copy for years, and I have paid for mine each of those years, it has never bothered me. my 2 cents.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

It was more of a principle issue....that's all...and if I get a comp copy "great", if not, then I will still happily buy the book just like I did this year.....and the previous 7 or so years..........regards all

[Archive]

Posted By: david

according to your reasoning then a spotted tie is only slightly more rare then a common old judge. it is one thing to have pricing that is off it is another to have pricing that borders on the absurd. when was the last time a member of this board saw an old judge spotted tie for 800 in near-mint as listed in the guide. as an educational tool for new collectors the guide is doing them a great disservice by pricing extremely rare cards well below their actual value.

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric (goudeyhunter)

I just wanted to jump in with my thoughts here, as I can relate to what's being said in these comments. I too have sent a good deal of newly found vintage material to Bob Lemke, and by my own accord, I'm glad to do it. I sent, and will continue to send vintage card information, because I like to help the hobby progress. In return, all I asked of Mr. Lemke was that he list me as a contributor to the publication(names are found on one of the first pages of the SCD). Bob gladly did this, and I feel honored to be included amongst the other contributors listed.

I've read here that some people have received a free copy of the SCD, and that's great for them. Those cases are up to Mr. Lemke. I paid for my copy, and will continue to do so, happily. I could never ask Mr. Lemke for a free book, nor would I expect him to send me one for my contributions. After all, I chose to contribute them.

SCD is a business. The sooner people start asking for a handout because they chose to freely contribute information, the sooner we can all expect to see this magnificent book not produced any longer, becasue the company doesn't make enough money off of it. I'm not taking any sides here, but let's all buck up and pay for the book. It's a mere $29 through Amazon.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Lemke

There are no specific guidelines for earning contributor's copies of the big book. Factoring in are such things as how much work was it for the contributor and how much for me to add the particular items; how much does it add to the book's sales potential; can the same information (listings, photos) be found elsewhere; what is the level of the contributer's overall support of the SCD "family"; will the contribution support a "Standard Catalog Update" column in SCD, etc. Most importantly is the question: How much does this information benefit the individual collector-reader and the hobby as a whole? In general, provision of a 50-card checklist, a newly issued SGA team set or a handful of new/replacement photos doesn't warrant the comp copy, while providing the first-ever 2,500-card J.D. McCarthy checklist does. Anything in between is a judgement call. Maybe I'm just being a cheap old bastard, but I feel every generation of collectors owes a debt to those who came before them and provided the bedrock data on which books such as this are based. That debt is repaid by expanding on the body of knowledge for future collectors.
As for pricing of "dotted ties" or any other "vintage" area of the book, the final responsibility is mine. Barring the occasional typo or computer glitch, I have bona fide transaction records to support changes (up or down) or I concur with what our proprietary analysis programs suggest based on other changes made by type, era, player, etc.
I can't get into extended debates about this or that change but I can say concerning the "dotted ties" that I recall being surprised that sales data supported narrowing the gap between that subset and other N172s.
This is the first year of a completely revamped Old Judge presentation and I expect that next year's price structure will continue toward our goal of accurately reflecting the retail market on as timely a basis as possible.
I do thank the regular participants on this forum and appreciate the many tips which it provides for improvement of the book. Feel free to e-mail me if you wish to engage in less-public dialogue or stop by the SCD booth at the forthcoming Pittsburgh show.

[Archive]

Posted By: Charlie

I agree 100% Eric. The book can only be made better with comtributions.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

After not too much thought (it was so obvious) I agree with ya'll. I want to help, just like I always have. My original posts sounded greedy. Obviously too, that was not my intention, as I don't think I am, and I don't think most folks would say I am........(not everone can say that) All I can say is there were some underlying thoughts on my initial post. Mr.Lemke took the high road, as usual, on this issue and I appreciate it. I will continue to help in any way I can, as I already do. I will buy my book next year, the year after, and hopefully years after those. I apologize for my seemingly "greediness" guys. .....(and girl)...now carry on....breast regards

[Archive]

Posted By: scott brockelman

care to elaborate on "breast regards" and get yourself in more posting ping pong???

[Archive]

Posted By: TBob

Sandwiched in between Leon (Luckey) and Bill (Mastro) in the alphabetical acknowledgements listings. Couldn't ask for a better spot
Bob when you send out the requests for card price evaluations next year, please include the Old Put listings as I have been buying and also keeping track of what they sell for in private auctions and on ebay and public auctions.
Nice job on the 2004 book, congratulations on another fine job.

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

as listed in the 2004 Catalogue for the price I paid
a primary contributor to the section--for one.

[Archive]

Posted By: TBob

???????

[Archive]

Posted By: John(z28jd)

Bob,its best if you just shake your head is disbelief and move on,dont try to figure it out. I know keep a pillow on my computer desk just in case i accidently read one of you know whos posts(im not gonna mention her name as i dont want to offend her)I was getting bad headaches from pounding my head on the desk.Now i just get dizzy and fall asleep

id like to thank Mr Lemke for all the help hes been in the past and for the great catalog he puts out,wish i could contribute some images for it

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

the new Old Judge section lists him for. I paid it to one of the major contributors to the Old judge section.

Is that simple enough for you?

[Archive]

Posted By: John(z28jd)

I think Bob meant,where the heck did that statement come from not what are you trying to say.Its obvious you missed his "p[oint"
Im pretty sure everyone has paid extra for a card they really wanted Julie,no need to brag about your lax attitude towards spending too much

[Archive]

Posted By: TBob

The gist of my post was that I didn't understand your post, Julie. I understand you said you paid 4 times too much for a card, but were you implying that major contributors charge too much or that being a major contributor he inflated the price in the SCD so you would pay more for the card? I just don't get your point.

[Archive]

Posted By: Robert

I have one question about the T206 errors. Why is it that the only errors you list are the ones missing red ink? Why do you not list cards that have wrong colors,missing colors or cards that have ghost images on them? They are errors to. Robert {Bigb13}

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

I bought the card late LAST YEAR--from Jay Miller (who charges a lot for cards, but has a lot of great ones)for mucho deniro. Then I read that Jay got==not just a free Catalogue, or his name mentioned, but a whole sentence, thanking him for his contributions to the Old Judge section of the new Catalogue. In that new catalogue, ALL Radbournes list for 1800 in near mint. (Of course I know that Lemke had the last word on prices, and I'm sure he didn't get any advice from Jay on the listing for the Radbourne! Mine was a portrait, by the way.)

Guess some things are more complicated than they seem. Is it all clear now? I simply forgot the chronology of events. And (what makes John's attack even--more disturbing), I wasn't entirely serious, because it was undooubtedly Lemke's price (1800), not Jay's (no matter how much he helped).

I KNOW I haven't told you exactly how much I paid Jay last year--but I think I said something about 4 times as much...

[Archive]

Posted By: Hankron

It's a safe guess that Bob wishes he had never mentioned sending someone a free catalog.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jay Miller

Just to set the record straight I had no input on Old Judge prices. The extent of my involvement related to information on additional players, team variations and poses and some suggestions on format. Also, I never asked for a comp copy and had no idea I was getting one until Bob's post.

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

I was right there, reading the thread, when you asked someone for a xerox of the Old Judge section. Then someone pointed out that Lemke had thanked you for your help with the (must have been painstaking) work of the new organization and listings in the Old Judge section. I never said you asked for a free catalogue.
And Lemke himself said he was sending you one.
And, by the way, I don't feel that you overcharged me for the Radbourne portrait. I think perhaps Lemke's price is someone low--but I doubt it's meant to apply to the portrait anyway.

I guess basically what I meant was--boy, things can certainly change in a year! Look at the 2003 list for the Radbourne portrait!

Do I deserve to be whipped because I said one of Lemke's prices was low? Cause I sure have been! Surely I'm not the only one on the Forum that has ever remarked on the difference between what he paid and book price of a card!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

I was right there, reading the thread, when you asked someone for a xerox of the Old Judge section. Then someone pointed out that Lemke had thanked you for your help with the (must have been painstaking) work of the new organization and listings in the Old Judge section. I never said you asked for a free catalogue.
And Lemke himself said he was sending you one.
And, by the way, I don't feel that you overcharged me for the Radbourne portrait. I think perhaps Lemke's price is someone low--but I doubt it's meant to apply to the portrait anyway.

I guess basically what I meant was--boy, things can certainly change in a year! Look at the 2003 list for the Radbourne portrait!

Do I deserve to be whipped because I said one of Lemke's prices was low? Cause I sure have been! Surely I'm not the only one on the Forum that has ever remarked on the difference between what he paid and book price of a card!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

I was right there, reading the thread, when you asked someone for a xerox of the Old Judge section. Then someone pointed out that Lemke had thanked you for your help with the (must have been painstaking) work of the new organization and listings in the Old Judge section. I never said you asked for a free catalogue.
And Lemke himself said he was sending you one.
And, by the way, I don't feel that you overcharged me for the Radbourne portrait. I think perhaps Lemke's price is someone low--but I doubt it's meant to apply to the portrait anyway.

I guess basically what I meant was--boy, things can certainly change in a year! Look at the 2003 list for the Radbourne portrait!

Do I deserve to be whipped because I said one of Lemke's prices was low? Cause I sure have been! Surely I'm not the only one on the Forum that has ever remarked on the difference between what he paid and book price of a card!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: J.

....

[Archive]

Posted By: Jay Miller

Julie--I had no problem with anything you said. I still love you even if you forgot my birthday this year. I was just trying to clear up my involvement in the project.

[Archive]

Posted By: halleygator

I just want to say that I have also overpaid Jay on many occasions ...

and I am mad at Jay for not having the gumption to DEMAND that Mr. Lemke INCREASE the price guide values on ALL of the cards that I BOUGHT from him!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Jay Miller

Hal--I did but it was too late to get the changes in this year. Keep your eye out for next year's catalog; they will be adjusted in there.

[Archive]

Posted By: halleygator

I'm glad to know that YOU are keeping a list of what I paid you for those Old Judge cards!

I have tried electric shock therapy to block it all out of my mind as painful memories.

And if you had never got me started on team cabinets with that damned Candy Cummings CdV ... I MIGHT have a chance at making a full recovery. GRRRRRRRRRRR

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Lemke

"wait 'til next year!" The current (2004) SCBC, in all but a few cases, lists N172 prices only by player/team combination, not by pose. Next year, there will be a by-pose appendix for N172 Hall of Famers. Obviously, the Radbourn portrait card(s) will be listed higher than the later "action" poses. Based on recorded sales of the past six months, if I were going to press today, the portrait would be about $7,000 NM; $3,150 EX and $2,000 VG. What the final "book" value of the card(s) will be in the 2005 edition remains to be seen. In the current (2004) edition it would have been a greater disservice to the hobby to price all Radbourn cards at the level of the scarcest/most desireable, rather than at the level of the most commonly encountered examples. Disparities such as this are why the effort is being made to create a by-pose HoF listing for N172. And to reiterate what Jay Miller said, he had no input into the pricing of the listings . . . nor did two other frequenters of this forum who asked for and received advanced printouts but did not return any suggested value data.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hankron

The 2004 is barely out and he's already promoting the 2005. What a pro!

[Archive]

Posted By: halleygator

Mr. Lemke is opening the door and inviting you to be "The Man" who sets the price for Old Judge cards!!

Come on, Jay ... you know what the REAL prices are for these cards, so share the knowledge!!

For example: I heard that some idiot just spent $5,500 on an Old Judge card of Ed Delahanty ... and it has not come back from SGC yet.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hankron

I have a quantity of 1988 Tidewater Tides Sets (Gregg Jeffries) that could use some 'price editing' for the 2005 guide

[Archive]

Posted By: Hankron

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

Many thanks to Bob, Jay, and others for a much improved format. And thanks to Bob for a more accurate market value listing for reference. I was happy to see Ned Hanlon fall back to a reasonable price behind Dan Brouthers & Sam Thompson (poses shown with Detroit):

Brouthers (3) => $3000, $1350, $750
Hanlon (3) => $1500, $675, $375
Thompson (5) => $2400, $1075, $600

Last year Hanlon was listed higher than Brouthers & Thompson which just didn't make sense to me (barring some unknown rarity which doesn't seem to be the case). All other 1887 Detroit players are commons as expected.

The one surprise I encountered was while looking up the four 1888 issued Detroit cards of Lady Baldwin, Pete Conway, Charlie Getzein, and Deacon White. For reasons I don't understand, the Lady Baldwin is carrying an elevated value as follows:

Lady Baldwin => $1600, $725, $400
Conway, Getzein, & White => $600, $270, $150 (commons)

Did I miss some recent auction or other exchange that warrants the elevated value of Baldwin? Just curious.

BTW, I treasure my old price guides which list all poses and variations. I hope you can return to that format some day.

Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

[Archive]

Posted By: Halleygator

Now THAT is funny!!!

Maybe Jeffries can come back and play until age 50 like Julio Franco has done?

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

would anyone in the know sell me the card for the price listed? I find it hard to believe that any OJ HOFer would sell for under $1K in honest vg condition in today's market.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

for $850 on ebay right now...and it's been there so long it's getting stale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2758981956&category=31719&rd=1

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

my worst damn thread yet and it won't die....my luck.....better go home and hit the porch (or was that torch ? )
regards all