PWCC reeling from losing my business!

[999Tony]

I recently posted that I wasn't bidding on a low grade common lot of Butterfinger premiums because they were in a PWCC auction. The auction concluded with total price with shipping just under $50. I would have bid about $20 higher. So this might have cost PWCC $3-4 or even more!*

How many more financial shocks like this can PWCC handle before it collapses?


*(Yeah I know depends if winner would have kept bidding against me)

[ALBB]

They will not be able to handle much more of that

[Snapolit1]

Brent probably called an emergency meeting this morning of upper management.

At this point anyone who thinks they are going to fare better with him with a really special card (lower commisssion I understand) than a real AH should have their head examined. If I see a nice card with him I immediately assume it’d been under the knife. Same logic I employ in topless bars where things just look too perfect.

[ullmandds]

Welllllllll...I'd have to think between the legal fees they're payiing JL...the refunds they've been giving and the fact some people are not soliciting their services..they're feeling something...and it aint warm apple pie!

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by snapolit1

brent probably called an emergency meeting this morning of upper management.

At this point anyone who thinks they are going to fare better with him (lower commisssion i understand) than a real ah should have their head examined. If i see a nice card with him i immediately assume it’d been under the knife. Same logic i employ in topless bars where things just look too perfect.

lol!!!

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

...If I see a nice card with him I immediately assume it’d been under the knife. Same logic I employ in topless bars where things just look too perfect.

OK that is really funny!!

Sometimes things are simply too good to be true.

[japhi]

I know op is an attempt at satire, but here is the thing. You can’t look at individual cards and try to draw a conclusion. The proper way to size impact would be total sales volume by auction MOM and YOY. Not sure if this data is available but if it was it would be interesting to see that 2008 fall auction is up or down x% YOY.

Another thing to consider is we are in one of the greatest asset bubbles we will likely ever see. No hobby scandal can counter the absolute flush of cash that is flowing into RE, art, equities, etc.

Last, Brent himself is on record stating that 15-30 collectors are driving the whole top end of the market. So it wouldn’t take too many of these collectors to move to the sidelines to impact prices. That said, these same collectors have incentive to keep the party going, which takes me back to asset bubble. Nothing is going to change as long as money is cheap and accessible.

[Copa7]

As soon as I see those letter - PWCC - I think someone of cutting and carving.

I save money by not buying anything with those letters.

[JollyElm]

Every single search I do on ebay contains "-(PWCC, Dean)" and life is beautiful (unless I'm looking for a Dean Meminger or Dean Chance card, of course).

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by japhi

Last, Brent himself is on record stating that 15-30 collectors are driving the whole top end of the market.

Is this a fact that he said that? Wow if true. Not exactly a business based on volume.

I’d love to see a reference to that or some metrics to back that up. I bet there are more cars doctors than that.

[frankbmd]

A. An establishment serving adult beverages without a roof, frequently seasonal in snow country.

B. An establishment serving adult beverages in which the bar itself no longer has a table top surface, where finding a place to set down your drink is a pain in the neck.

C. An establishment serving adult beverages featuring entertainment devoid of clothing above the waist.

D. An establishment serving adult beverages that is clothing optional for the patrons, who in fact may also be bottomless.

Perhaps this should be in the form of a poll for our members to indicate their preference.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by Stampsfan

Is this a fact that he said that? Wow if true. Not exactly a business based on volume.

I’d love to see a reference to that or some metrics to back that up. I bet there are more cars doctors than that.

He did, I believe on this forum when he used to participate. Someone with better search skills can probably find it.

And it makes sense - PWCC sells 50mm a year, if 20mm of that is ultra high end, 25 whales could easily consume all that inventory. I suspect a lot of ultrahigh end inventory is in a few hands and if/when these guys exit look out.

The card doctors are selling cards to all types of collectors. If you look at most outed cards they are in the 500-1k range. Even the big ones are under 25k. The doctors are making money on volume, turning 50’dollar bills into 1k paydays

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Every single search I do on ebay contains "-(PWCC, Dean)" and life is beautiful (unless I'm looking for a Dean Meminger or Dean Chance card, of course).

Or an altered card.
(PWCC reference only.)

[CMIZ5290]

Meanwhile, Brent and Betsy keeping laughing all the way to the bank.....

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Meanwhile, Brent and Betsy keeping laughing all the way to the bank.....

Partners
With
Cash
Cache

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Meanwhile, Brent and Betsy keeping laughing all the way to the bank.....

I will go out on a limb and say they aren't quite laughing all the way to the bank right about now.

[mintacular]

What was the point of this original thread, not to be critical....Were you being sarcastic that you are just a drop in the bucket and the PWCC steamroller rolls on. Or were you trying to say people like yourself are dropping out of their auctions and indeed deflating their final sales prices/bottom line?

[Fred]

Just my opinion. This will probably blow over for them and it will be business as usual in a short period of time. It seems to be a trend. Crappy things are identified, the hobbyists throw their hands up (in disgust), vow never to do business again with these buttheads and after a few months, nothing is truly done and everything goes back to the way it was. Maybe, just maybe, there might have been a little hand slapping but in the end, what really is done to better the hobby?

[CMIZ5290]

Fred is spot on.....Here is where I am at with all of this.... Brent Huigens and Rick Probstein have been crucified on this Board for years, not months, but several years (rightly so in most cases) and not a damn thing ever gets done, ever... Ebay isn't going to do a damn thing about it, even though of possibly knowing of bad doings....So now what? What's going to happen realistically? My opinion? They will keep right on rolling along.....

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Fred is spot on.....Here is where I am at with all of this.... Brent Huigens and Rick Probstein have been crucified on this Board for years, not months, but several years (rightly so in most cases) and not a damn thing ever gets done, ever... Ebay isn't going to do a damn thing about it, even though of possibly knowing of bad doings....So now what? What's going to happen realistically? My opinion? They will keep right on rolling along.....

Speaking of Rick Probstein…

Check out his response to an indisputably proven altered card that he is currently (and fraudulently) selling...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1338754


How anyone could support this business model is beyond me. I know... stuff trumps all... but what an arrogant POS!

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Speaking of Rick Probstein…

Check out his response to an indisputably proven altered card that he is currently (and fraudulently) selling...

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1338754


How anyone could support this business model is beyond me. I know... stuff trumps all... but what an arrogant POS!

Mark.....He is, and let me tell you something.... He doesn't give a shit about what people think about him, actually laughs about it....

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Mark.....He is, and let me tell you something.... He doesn't give a shit about what people think about him, actually laughs about it....

Yeah... and the ONLY way to get him to stop his laughing is to stop buying/consigning from him.

But to your point... the blind will keep leading the blind, and things will likely never change. I used to believe the vast majority simply didn't know about the fraud. Now I think they just don't care.

[BigBeerGut]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Meanwhile, Brent and Betsy keeping laughing all the way to the bank.....

Do not mention Betsy

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Fred

Just my opinion. This will probably blow over for them and it will be business as usual in a short period of time. It seems to be a trend. Crappy things are identified, the hobbyists throw their hands up (in disgust), vow never to do business again with these buttheads and after a few months, nothing is truly done and everything goes back to the way it was. Maybe, just maybe, there might have been a little hand slapping but in the end, what really is done to better the hobby?

That couldn’t be more spot on. Well said. That sums up about the last 100,000 comments on this board. In a nutshell. Perfectly.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I know things move too slowly for, well, everyone, but the FBI being involved is a little different than the run of the mill crappy things that people have been bitching about for years.

[BigBeerGut]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I know things move too slowly for, well, everyone, but the FBI being involved is a little different than the run of the mill crappy things that people have been bitching about for years.

How do we know the FBI is involved? Crock-O-Bull

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Their presence at PWCC's booth at the national would certainly suggest it...

[JackW]

Scott seems very well-connected in the hobby. If he says the FBI is involved, you can book it. (Pardon the pun!)

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Their presence at PWCC's booth at the national would certainly suggest it...

Kinda surprising with the FBI at their booth...Lichtman as their lawyer...there is still funny business seemingly going on with their auctions.

[Copa7]

Forget the registry. Before I buy a card to invest, I check to see if it was ever sold by PWCC.

If I want an altered card, ill do it myself. (at least I'll know what I got)

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Kinda surprising with the FBI at their booth...Lichtman as their lawyer...there is still funny business seemingly going on with their auctions.

I am more wondering how this is connected to Stevens thread on Lelands because as a stand alone thread it makes zero sense. Especially with the level of threats, kinda reminds me of how Jeffery became PWCCs lawyer.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I am more wondering how this is connected to Stevens thread on Lelands because as a stand alone thread it makes zero sense. Especially with the level of threats, kinda reminds me of how Jeffery became PWCCs lawyer.

ya...there's that too...multiple curious story lines these days.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I am more wondering how this is connected to Stevens thread on Lelands because as a stand alone thread it makes zero sense. Especially with the level of threats, kinda reminds me of how Jeffery became PWCCs lawyer.

It actually was from a referral. But if you’re claiming what you just wrote is a fact and not your opinion let me know.

[CuriousGeorge]

Better to just allow yourself and others to just get ripped off and do nothing like you apparently would do? I guess that helps to explain a lot.

Originally Posted by bnorth

I am more wondering how this is connected to Stevens thread on Lelands because as a stand alone thread it makes zero sense. Especially with the level of threats, kinda reminds me of how Jeffery became PWCCs lawyer.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

It actually was from a referral. But if you’re claiming what you just wrote is a fact and not your opinion let me know.

No facts, just a funny conspiracy theory opinion from an unemployed hobby nobody.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bnorth

No facts, just a funny conspiracy theory opinion from an unemployed hobby nobody.

Ben, if you can work a scanner and answer phones I’ve got a job for you.

Wait: do you speak Spanish?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Ben, if you can work a scanner and answer phones I’ve got a job for you.

I appreciate the offer but I am doing OK. Now if that job could be located about 80 to 120 miles south-west of PWCC headquarters I can do both.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bnorth

No facts, just a funny conspiracy theory opinion from an unemployed hobby nobody.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Snapolit1]

Please raise your hand if you think fraud in the baseball card collecting world is anywhere in the top 500 things the FBI is currently concerned about. Anybody? Do I see one hand up in the back of the room?

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Please raise your hand if you think fraud in the baseball card collecting world is anywhere in the top 500 things the FBI is currently concerned about. Anybody? Do I see one hand up in the back of the room?

Fortunately they have the ability and resources to be involved with more than 500 things at once.

[CuriousGeorge]

Did Crazy Uncle thread disappear?

[ullmandds]

looks like there's a new "policy" in place around here?

[CuriousGeorge]

Wow just found it in water cooler section. And locked! Glad I didn’t buy anything in that auction because I’d have no idea what was going on with them anymore.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Fortunately they have the ability and resources to be involved with more than 500 things at once.

Yeah, and eventually like every organization on the face of the earth they sit around at some point and decide budgeting, priorities for the coming year, which things merit continued attention, staffing needs, etc. I see the FBI in the paper every day now. . . . .and it ain't about baseball cards. . . . .

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Please raise your hand if you think fraud in the baseball card collecting world is anywhere in the top 500 things the FBI is currently concerned about. Anybody? Do I see one hand up in the back of the room?

This guy from Maryland has his hand raised. I believe, in fact I am quite confident, that this FBI investigation is real and matters significantly to the agent(s) undertaking it. I do not know how it will shake it, and I have no prediction regarding same, but I do very much believe that this is a big deal to the FBI agent(s) on the case.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by CuriousGeorge

Wow just found it in water cooler section. And locked! Glad I didn’t buy anything in that auction because I’d have no idea what was going on with them anymore.

Whenever members want to throw snide remarks my way then the repercussions are not going to be what those members want. Just like when you said "so sorry" to me in your thread you wanted to be on the front page. And then when I have had enough with those members, those members will be gone. I have found that weeding out malcontents is not only good for me but good for the forum. Carry on.....and so sorry .

[CuriousGeorge]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Yeah, and eventually like every organization on the face of the earth they sit around at some point and decide budgeting, priorities for the coming year, which things merit continued attention, staffing needs, etc. I see the FBI in the paper every day now. . . . .and it ain't about baseball cards. . . . .

You must have access to better information about what’s going on with them and this investigation than I do so I will have to defer to you.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Whenever members want to throw snide remarks my way then the repercussions are not going to be what those members want. Just like when you said "so sorry" to me in your thread you wanted to be on the front page. And then when I have had enough with those members, those members will be gone. I have found that weeding out malcontents is not only good for me but good for the forum. Carry on.....and so sorry .

If legitimate questions about advertisers are now suddenly off limits, count me as a malcontent I guess. Not the forum I've known for all these years.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If legitimate questions about advertisers are now suddenly off limits, count me as a malcontent I guess. Not the forum I've known for all these years.

It was the snide remark that tipped the boat not the question.
If you make those kind of remarks then you will be in the same boat as they are.
It is each members call how they want to participate. It is the same forum as always I am just taking less BS from the members. Had I truly been "protecting" an advertiser then the thread would have been deleted. Each member can make their own assumptions but the best way to participate here is not going to be rubbing me the wrong way, on purpose.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

It was the snide remark that tipped the boat not the question.
If you make those kind of remarks then you will be in the same boat as they are.
It is each members call how they want to participate. It is the same forum as always I am just taking less BS from the members. Had I truly been "protecting" an advertiser then the thread would have been deleted. Each member can make their own assumptions but the best way to participate here is not going to be rubbing me the wrong way, on purpose.

No, when one thread gets moved off the main page and another gets locked, it's not the same forum.